Wade Boggs vs Tony Gwynn

[fabiani12333]

High-leverage situations:

Gwynn: .345/.406/.470, .876 OPS, 2,057 PA, 107 tOPS (relative to overall OPS)

Boggs: .323/.420/.410, .830 OPS, 1,896 PA, 94 tOPS


Gwynn is the all-time leader in Fangraphs' Clutch stat (since 1974).

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

From 1984-1998 Gwynn never finished less than 9th in BA in the National League.

His lowest average was .289, his rookie year

Both Boggs and Gwynn had less than than 750 career Ks, but Gwynn has 300 LESS career Ks.

I mean if these stats matter there is a mystery player who has also never finished less then 9th in BA, hiw lowest avg ever was .292. He also never K's with a K ratio I would guess is better then Gwynn even (relative to rest of league and much better pitching).

The last clue will give away who he is, but he's bad at baseball

[Stifle]

You can include Rod Carew into this debate. All three are virtually the same guy.

I like to take how they perform in the post season when having to choose between obvious all time greats.

Carew stunk and had a -.277 WPA.
Boggs was nearly invisible with a .020 WPA
Gwynn even though he was 2-11 in 2 out w/RISP but had a .983 WPA.

Gwynn performed at a much higher level in the playoffs.

As far as stolen bases, Carew & Gwynn were not great base stealers but stole many bases. Who would I pick if I had their best 10 consecutive seasons, probably Carew but it’s because he is nearly forgotten in these debates.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

I mean if these stats matter there is a mystery player who has also never finished less then 9th in BA, hiw lowest avg ever was .292. He also never K's with a K ratio I would guess is better then Gwynn even (relative to rest of league and much better pitching).

The last clue will give away who he is, but he's bad at baseball

Yeah, I don’t get the apathy he gets. He’s doing something no one else has been able to do in this era. Sure he doesn’t hit HRs, but seriously, he’s proof you can make contact in the max effort era.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

I mean if these stats matter there is a mystery player who has also never finished less then 9th in BA, hiw lowest avg ever was .292. He also never K's with a K ratio I would guess is better then Gwynn even (relative to rest of league and much better pitching).

The last clue will give away who he is, but he's bad at baseball

I like the guy but he’s atrocious at everything but hitting for average. You also typically don’t want a DH/1B who can’t even hit double digit HRs. A literal one tool player.

[Above the Rim]

Thanks for posting the Fenway Park angle. Boggs feasted.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Yeah, I don’t get the apathy he gets. He’s doing something no one else has been able to do in this era. Sure he doesn’t hit HRs, but seriously, he’s proof you can make contact in the max effort era.

I think you falsely assume nobody could do it rather then realizing the end result of non stop weak contact isn't very valuable, regardless of how small his K% is.

He was what like 9th on the Padres alone for OPS?

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

High-leverage situations:

Gwynn: .345/.406/.470, .876 OPS, 2,057 PA, 107 tOPS (relative to overall OPS)

Boggs: .323/.420/.410, .830 OPS, 1,896 PA, 94 tOPS


Gwynn is the all-time leader in Fangraphs' Clutch stat (since 1974).

Wow, Baseball Reference has Gwynn with a .876 WPA but Miggy with a .902 WPA & Pujols with a .963 in carer high leverage. To have Gwynn with the exact same HL as BR but then to have other players who lose at least .027 & .088 is a massive change.

[ottobord]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

High-leverage situations:

Gwynn: .345/.406/.470, .876 OPS, 2,057 PA, 107 tOPS (relative to overall OPS)

Boggs: .323/.420/.410, .830 OPS, 1,896 PA, 94 tOPS


Gwynn is the all-time leader in Fangraphs' Clutch stat (since 1974).

Interesting after reading this and some other comments I think I have moved toward Gwynn. I am biased toward those who I saw play most. As a Yankee fan I saw a bunch of Bogg's career with the Sox and obviously with the Yankees.

[Above the Rim]

B. Avg. Home Away

Gwynn .343 .334
Boggs .354 .302
Carew .333 .323

So what if Boggs played most anywhere else besides Fenway?

[babyfaceposey]

Tony Gwynn was so fun to watch.

[JoshMN]

Gwynn was probably the most fun to watch and the best “pure” hitter. That .394 season sticks out in my mind because it was a throwback to that era before WW2.

Boggs was probably the best overall player. I can’t disagree with that.

Rod Carew got name-checked by the Beastie Boys, which is a damn worthy accolade in its own right.

[tyrith]

Originally Posted by JoshMN

Gwynn was probably the most fun to watch and the best “pure” hitter. That .394 season sticks out in my mind because it was a throwback to that era before WW2.

Boggs was probably the best overall player. I can’t disagree with that.

Walks are hella important but don't exactly bring the heat from an entertainment perspective.

[quackhead]

Tony! Tony! Tony!











5.5 hole all day long.





Could climb the wall too!





Beer is not too shabby as well










Fun fact: Wade Boggs middle name is Anthony

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by JoshMN

Gwynn was probably the most fun to watch and the best “pure” hitter. That .394 season sticks out in my mind because it was a throwback to that era before WW2.

Boggs was probably the best overall player. I can’t disagree with that.

Rod Carew got name-checked by the Beastie Boys, which is a damn worthy accolade in its own right.

Adam Sandler as well!

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

I’ve heard numerous people in the know make the statement about Gwynn and power as well.

It’s easy to forget, Gwynn was pretty athletic. He played college basketball and had more assists in 4 years than he had strikeouts in mlb in 20 years.

I have to admit my viewpoint of Gwynn is from a kid that grew up on the east coast that could only watch Gwynn if the padres were playing on espn late on fridays. I was mostly watching Red Sox games living in Massachusetts.

That reminds me, mlb on espn was great in the late 80s and early 90s.

[hermanotarjeta]

Gwynn.

He always seemed harder to strike out.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHatesJazz

It’s easy to forget, Gwynn was pretty athletic. He played college basketball and had more assists in 4 years than he had strikeouts in mlb in 20 years.

I have to admit my viewpoint of Gwynn is from a kid that grew up on the east coast that could only watch Gwynn if the padres were playing on espn late on fridays. I was mostly watching Red Sox games living in Massachusetts.

That reminds me, mlb on espn was great in the late 80s and early 90s.

A Gwynn San Diego State basketball auto or jersey card has been on my want list! There’s a sweet dual jersey card with Marshall Faulk on the Bay right now but the BIN seems a little too steep.

I remember it being great all the way through the 90s, I used to love staying up late for Wednesday Night Baseball and watching the west coast teams.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

I mean if these stats matter there is a mystery player who has also never finished less then 9th in BA, hiw lowest avg ever was .292. He also never K's with a K ratio I would guess is better then Gwynn even (relative to rest of league and much better pitching).

The last clue will give away who he is, but he's bad at baseball

He has only played 7 seasons and barely has 1000 hits. If he can do it for 12 more years and approach 3000 hits, people will notice. Otherwise he is a poor man's Bill Madlock. Ichiro had an OPS+ of 107, less than his 115, and Ichiro was one vote short of unanimous for the Hall of Fame.

[JoshMN]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

I mean if these stats matter there is a mystery player who has also never finished less then 9th in BA, hiw lowest avg ever was .292. He also never K's with a K ratio I would guess is better then Gwynn even (relative to rest of league and much better pitching).

The last clue will give away who he is, but he's bad at baseball

Mystery Player also has the same career OPS+ as Derek Jeter and is a better fielder than Jeter, at least according to objective metrics.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by rats60

Otherwise he is a poor man's Bill Madlock.

You could also call him a poor man's Wade Boggs

Similar Batters through 27
Bill Madlock (927.8)
Wade Boggs (926.6) *

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

You could also call him a poor man's Wade Boggs

Similar Batters through 27
Bill Madlock (927.8)
Wade Boggs (926.6) *

This just show how stupid and useless of a stat this is:

Through age-27 season:
Bill Madlock: .325/.386/.467, .854 OPS, 135 OPS+, 2,841 PA
Wade Boggs: .351/.430/.457, .886 OPS, 140 OPS+, 2,550 PA
Luis Arraez: .323/.372/.418, .790 OPS, 118 OPS+, 2,858 PA

[towerymt]

Gwynn.