Wade Boggs vs Tony Gwynn
 

Who was better?

At beer drinking? Boggs.

Wow - position played during the period REALLY impacts bWAR. Gwynn is -30 despite 3 more gold gloves and (generally) better stats.

in the hobby they are both equally mediocre

[QUOTE=ScooterD;20130471]Wow - position played during the period REALLY impacts bWAR. Gwynn is -30 despite 3 more gold gloves and (generally) better stats.[/QUOTE]

Well, three things -

1) That was an era where the Gold Glove award was essentially nonsense. There was a lot of inertia and star popularity involved. The modern defensive metrics are very down on his 1989 Gold Glove season in particular - like fWAR has his as the worst defensive RF in the league that year.

2) Gwynn had a long career, the Gold Gloves were all by age 31 but he kept playing another decade. Most of his seasons in his 30s were very ugly in defensive metrics.

3) Being able to play a non-1B infield position is dramatically more valuable than being a corner OF. As players age or get to the majors, the moves only go in one direction between those positions.

Ultimately, Boggs was the better player, I don't think it's particularly close. Gwynn has a minor lead in career slugging, but Boggs wound up about 25 points ahead in OBP, and OBP is the one true offensive stat. Boggs lead the league in OBP six times - that's up there with someone like Joey Votto, except Boggs was a quality defensive 3B versus an okay-ish 1B.

[QUOTE=tyrith;20130492]Well, three things -

1) That was an era where the Gold Glove award was essentially nonsense. There was a lot of inertia and star popularity involved. The modern defensive metrics are very down on his 1989 Gold Glove season in particular - like fWAR has his as the worst defensive RF in the league that year.

2) Gwynn had a long career, the Gold Gloves were all by age 31 but he kept playing another decade. Most of his seasons in his 30s were very ugly in defensive metrics.

3) Being able to play a non-1B infield position is dramatically more valuable than being a corner OF. As players age or get to the majors, the moves only go in one direction between those positions.

Ultimately, Boggs was the better player, I don't think it's particularly close. Gwynn has a minor lead in career slugging, but Boggs wound up about 25 points ahead in OBP, and OBP is the one true offensive stat. Boggs lead the league in OBP six times - that's up there with someone like Joey Votto, except Boggs was a quality defensive 3B versus an okay-ish 1B.[/QUOTE]

How do you factor in Gwynn's 300+ SB?

Both were fun to follow.
1994 was amazing until they screwed it all up by striking. :mad:
Gwynn had the better stats overall and the stolen bases disparity makes Gwynn the better player.
The shift would have never worked on Boggs.
He would have hit it where they ain't. :)!

I'm bias, but I'll go Boggs. Both of them were insanely good hitters. I'd almost call that a wash. Boggs walked more, had a better OBP and OPS. He even lead the league in OPS a couple times. Played 3B. And would have far surpassed Gwynn's counting stats if he didn't have to wait until age 24 to be called up because he was stuck behind Carney Lansford.

[QUOTE=mfw13;20130525]How do you factor in Gwynn's 300+ SB?[/QUOTE]

Net of his 125 career CS, it just doesn't move the needle very much. His career baserunning runs added in Fangraphs is just over 11 - maybe two wins of career value on the high end.

They are both 2 of my favorite players. As tough as it is to pick one, I'd go with Gwynn.

[QUOTE=SaveMeTheGum;20130588]I'm bias, but I'll go Boggs. Both of them were insanely good hitters. I'd almost call that a wash. Boggs walked more, had a better OBP and OPS. He even lead the league in OPS a couple times. Played 3B. And would have far surpassed Gwynn's counting stats if he didn't have to wait until age 24 to be called up because he was stuck behind Carney Lansford.[/QUOTE]

Great point about Carney keeping Wade in the minors…

Boggs could have hit for more power if he wanted to. Very strong guy but focused on being a contact hitter.

As an avid Tony Gwynn collector, I'm going TG!!!! Plus that smile he always seemed to have. Everything that was right with baseball.

Get a tissue before watching:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yu1T7RATJw[/url]

[QUOTE=carlo16;20130446]Who was better?[/QUOTE]

I'm biased as a Gwynn fan, so for me Gwynn was better, not as an all-around better player than Boggs, but simply based on him as a legendary pure contact hitter. If one values modern metrics like OBP and WAR, then Boggs is the better player. But, if one, like me, who values metrics like batting average, batting titles, and the ability to avoid strikeouts by putting the ball in play, then Gwynn was better. Gwynn even had a higher slugging percentage than Boggs.

It's different valuations of a player. I will concede and say that Boggs was probably the better overall player, but for me, Gwynn was the greatest pure contact hitter of the modern era, since Ted Williams in vintage times.

[QUOTE=swabie2424;20130697]As an avid Tony Gwynn collector, I'm going TG!!!! Plus that smile he always seemed to have. Everything that was right with baseball.

Get a tissue before watching:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yu1T7RATJw[/url][/QUOTE]

I'm a big supporter as well. I've had a few chances to meet Tony and he was ALWAYS exceptional with everyone he met. Just a genuinely kind mind.

Boggs only because I think it's harder to find a decent third baseman vs finding a decent outfielder. I also saw Boggs play more then Gwynn. Very close. I wouldn't argue either way.

Boggs is awesome

Gwynn is boring

That’s all I’ve got

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;20130483]in the hobby they are both equally mediocre[/QUOTE]

:cry:

I'm taking Mr. Padre every time.

My daughter’s name is Gwynn so you’re asking the wrong guy for an unbiased take.

Boggs cause Sox

Have a soft spot for Tony Gwynn on this one. Probably West Coast bias, I also attended his San Diego School of Baseball a few times growing up and he was always great to the kids there, spending time talking and coaching.

Plus, he played with one team his entire career.

Boggs is the better player. probably not especially close.

as offensive players, it is a wash. some have mentioned Gwynns 300 SB. he was very poor at stealing as he was caught 125 times!!! that is a lot of outs to run into. all those steals did not matter too much as he was so inefficient at it.

Boggs pulls ahead big time because of position. much easier to replace gwynn than boggs in a lineup. he became a plus 3b over time.

it would be even more of a blowout for boggs had he not played what, 5 years in the minors because he was blocked by Lansford. the guy may have had 3500 hits!!

[QUOTE=swabie2424;20130697]As an avid Tony Gwynn collector, I'm going TG!!!! Plus that smile he always seemed to have. Everything that was right with baseball.

Get a tissue before watching:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yu1T7RATJw[/url][/QUOTE]

Tony Gwynn a better hitter, but I liked both equally. Almost would put Brett with them in the same tier.

[QUOTE=daveyc1;20130781]Boggs is the better player. probably not especially close.

as offensive players, it is a wash. some have mentioned Gwynns 300 SB. he was very poor at stealing as he was caught 125 times!!! that is a lot of outs to run into. all those steals did not matter too much as he was so inefficient at it.

Boggs pulls ahead big time because of position. much easier to replace gwynn than boggs in a lineup. he became a plus 3b over time.

it would be even more of a blowout for boggs had he not played what, 5 years in the minors because he was blocked by Lansford. the guy may have had 3500 hits!![/QUOTE]

Why would the SB and CS argument be used against Gwynn in comparison to Boggs? Gwynn's successfull steals ratio was like 72% (319 SB, 125 CS), which is respectable compared to the poor results of Boggs ratio of 41% (24 SB, 35 CS). So, Gwynn here was more efficient at stealing than Boggs.

As far as the amount of time playing, Gwynn only had like 108 more at bats than Boggs for their careers (Gwynn AB 9288, Boggs AB 9180)... so, when it comes to actual opportunities to bat and get a hit, it was basically a near statistical tie. Boggs would have only added like another 35 hits, based on his BA of 0.328, if he had the exact number of at bats as Gwynn.