PSA Screwup: This one's bad even by their standards

[gunboat82]

You may notice that that there are marks on this Ruth. Lots of marks, in fact. Someone wrote an entire message on it.

According to PSA's website:

Qualifiers

MK

Marks

Any and all cards with writing, ink marks, pencil marks, etc. or evidence of the impression left from the act of writing will be designated "MK."

PSA charges $599 to grade cards like this. As you can see, this card got a PSA 2 with no qualifier. PSA claims to have multiple experts review each card, with a "Quality Assurance" review before it goes out the door.

This means at least two PSA graders either (1) were not aware that writing requires a qualifier under PSA grading standards; or (2) barely looked at this card before assigning it a grade.

With the volume PSA is pushing, I'd expect some mistakes in identifying and labeling. But when your primary job is to grade the condition of a card, it’s hard to fathom how you could miss this much handwriting. I’ve had cards graded marked or altered when there was a tiny, stray unidentifiable mark, or a very light pencil erasure. I've had cards graded marked or altered when I couldn't even find the supposed mark or alteration.

Someone wrote an entire message on this Ruth, and the experts at PSA didn't see it.

[itsbaytime]

I am really unsure what you are talking about here? PSA has scarcely used qualifiers for years. They are basically eliminated and they just downgrade the card.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

I am really unsure what you are talking about here? PSA has scarcely used qualifiers for years. They are basically eliminated and they just downgrade the card.

Not true with certain qualifiers. Cards with marks need to be used. Below is their updated qualifier policy.

PSA no longer requires submitters to decide whether to request "No Qualifiers." The qualifier MK (Marks) will continue to be used to identify writing and other marks on a card. MC (Miscut) will continue to be used to identify cards where a portion of the subject card is cut off or a portion of a second card is visible. Moving forward, characteristics such as Centering, Staining, Print Defects and Focus will default to impacting the numerical grade rather than carry a qualifier. The qualifiers OC (Off Center), ST (Staining), PD (Print Defect) and OF (Out of Focus) will be used infrequently and at the discretion of the PSA grading staff.

[gunboat82]

What discodanman45 said is correct. There is no universe in which this card should have been put in a PSA 2 slab without an MK qualifer.

[auburn35]

Looks like psa has deactivated cert, so they're likely aware of the authentication error. Maybe you informed them?
https://www.psacard.com/cert/86528730

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Looks like psa has deactivated cert, so they're likely aware of the authentication error. Maybe you informed them?
https://www.psacard.com/cert/86528730

Yes, their Customer Relations Center sent this e-mail:

I hope this message finds you well. My name is Juan Salinas, and I am a Senior Specialist in the Customer Relations department at PSA. I am reaching out regarding an unfortunate situation concerning your recent order, and I want to ensure we address it in a timely and satisfactory manner.
If you would prefer to discuss this matter over the phone, please do not hesitate to let me know your availability, and I would be happy to arrange a convenient time. However, I wanted to provide you with the details upfront to allow you to review the situation.

Upon receiving your item back from our Director of Grading, we have identified a discrepancy that occurred during the original submission, which resulted in an incorrect status being assigned to your item. We deeply regret this error and sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Here are the specific details of your order:

Cert#: 86528730
Description: 1921 EXHIBITS GEO. H. "BABE" RUTH
Original Grade: 2 ($8,500)
Current PSA Grade: Authentic ($4,000)
Difference in Market Value: $4,500

They wouldn't disclose how they came up with $8,500 for a PSA 2, which is less than I paid. This is what they said:

The initial PSA grade of 2 and the associated value of $8,500 were based on the market research provided by our pricing specialist. These figures were determined according to the general market value at the time of submission.

[auburn35]

Interesting.
Getting psa to admit to an error is difficult enough, best of luck working out fair compensation.

[itsbaytime]

Yeah, I am a little shocked by it. Mea culpa on the MK part. I thought they got rid of them all. I guess you learn something every day.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

Yes, their Customer Relations Center sent this e-mail:

They wouldn't disclose how they came up with $8,500 for a PSA 2, which is less than I paid. This is what they said:

They came up with $8500 because that’s what it sold for on Goldin a couple of months ago with the auction description including the handwriting mention.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

They came up with $8500 because that’s what it sold for on Goldin a couple of months ago with the auction description including the handwriting mention.

You're probably right, but the card actually sold for $8540. I suppose it's possible that PSA applied a 0.47% depreciation rate for some reason.

[gunboat82]

And here's another one, courtesy of Goldin Auctions. Someone scribbled Dimaggio's name on the front (spelled incorrectly), and PSA graded it as if it weren't even there. Do they have some wink-and-nod agreement to not look closely at cards from some submitters?

https://goldin.co/item/1939-play-bal...JkSW5kZXgiOjJ9

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

And here's another one, courtesy of Goldin Auctions. Someone scribbled Dimaggio's name on the front (spelled incorrectly), and PSA graded it as if it weren't even there. Do they have some wink-and-nod agreement to not look closely at cards from some submitters?

https://goldin.co/item/1939-play-bal...JkSW5kZXgiOjJ9

What a joke. Goldin is trying to get around this by saying, "Please note that the signature on the cardfront is secretarial and not struck in DiMaggio's hand."

This is over a $2000 card in a 3. What a joke that some people think 2/3 people look over every card and then is scrutinized in multiple quality control processes. We give way too much trust to these grading companies and pay them way too much for cards they spend 20 seconds on. Someone paid $149 to grade this card with the value, maybe even more. Just gross!

[auburn35]

Add now it's Goldin's move.
Passed through PSA without anyone noticing the authentication error, and the cert deactivated in a couple hours circulating hobby news.

[PLB9eight]

Does anyone really believe PSA is better since Collectors was acquired? Sure they’ve added some stuff here and there but stuff like this is just laughable.


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[mjohnatgt]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/365418261041
And another Net54 catch. Card even states reprint on back. Slabbed as original.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by PLB9eight

Does anyone really believe PSA is better since Collectors was acquired? Sure they’ve added some stuff here and there but stuff like this is just laughable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a very unserious question. Joe ran the company into the ground. Don’t forget that when Nat took over, they had to pause submissions and it still took almost a year to get out what was already there.

They grade 1 million cards a month. They are going to make some baffling mistakes. And unlike the old PSA, they will quickly decertify these sorts of mistakes found by the community. If you need them to be perfect, no grading company is for you.

[PLB9eight]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

This is a very unserious question. Joe ran the company into the ground. Don’t forget that when Nat took over, they had to pause submissions and it still took almost a year to get out what was already there.

They grade 1 million cards a month. They are going to make some baffling mistakes. And unlike the old PSA, they will quickly decertify these sorts of mistakes found by the community. If you need them to be perfect, no grading company is for you.

Of course mistakes are expected. It’s just funny that when it comes down to the “experts” grading the cards, PSA is a lot more HGA than most realize.


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[auburn35]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

https://www.ebay.com/itm/365418261041
And another Net54 catch. Card even states reprint on back. Slabbed as original.

Humorously, that same card was also listed with Probstein last year, without highlighting the authentication error.
Auction was flagged and psa eventually corrected the cert on the back end, but obviously haven't corrected the label.

https://x.com/THACardStory/status/17...k8r6ghI9g&s=19

[discodanman45]

PSA is to blame here, but it is just due to incompetence. The bigger issue, which is not discussed for some reason, is how disgusting the behavior of these auction houses and eBay sellers are. PSA grades many cards wrong, because they have people not knowing what these cards even are or how they should look. Plus spending 30 seconds on a card to make their daily quota is probably another reason.

Goldin knew the card was graded wrong, but put this in their description to cover their own a$$. "Please note that the signature on the cardfront is secretarial and not struck in DiMaggio's hand." Goldin is just as bad as a used car salesman. If I owned an auction house, I would not allow this card to be sold on it. I guess that is why I don't have "The Goldin Touch."

Then we have the nonsense with the 1960 Hank Aaron Lake to Lake Jalfco Reprint card that was graded as a real 1960 Lake to Lake sold by Probstein.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/365418261041

The listing again is to cover their a$$ "1960 Lake To Lake Dairy Braves Reprint Henry Hank Aaron PSA 6.5 EX-MT+ PSA ERROR"

Goldin and Probstein are worse than PSA in my opinion for still trying to sell these cards, even though they know they were graded wrong. I wonder what PSA will do with the "Authenticity Guarantee" with the Lake to Lake Aaron? I guess we as the hobby need to put PSA on blast so they do the right thing. Not because they want to, but because they have to when they are called out. Below is a PSA verification. Hopefully this BS gets decertified soon.

https://www.psacard.com/cert/89271548

[discodanman45]

Well PSA left the image of the Lake to Lake card up, but changed the title to "1988 JALFCO 1960 LAKE TO LAKE DAIRY MILWAUKEE BRAVES (REPRINTS) HENRY AARON"

They will probably just reslab it when it passes through authenticity guarantee and the new owner will get the reprint since it matches Probsteins title. PSA will the refuse to pay out for making the mistake and Probstein keeps their commission. Wouldn't surprise me if they up charged the original owner as well. All is well in the hobby!

[mjohnatgt]

Grade guarantee doesn’t apply to mechanical errors, FWIW.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

PSA is to blame here, but it is just due to incompetence. The bigger issue, which is not discussed for some reason, is how disgusting the behavior of these auction houses and eBay sellers are. PSA grades many cards wrong, because they have people not knowing what these cards even are or how they should look. Plus spending 30 seconds on a card to make their daily quota is probably another reason.

Goldin knew the card was graded wrong, but put this in their description to cover their own a$$. "Please note that the signature on the cardfront is secretarial and not struck in DiMaggio's hand." Goldin is just as bad as a used car salesman. If I owned an auction house, I would not allow this card to be sold on it. I guess that is why I don't have "The Goldin Touch."

I'm with you on this one. PSA's screwups are bad, but I chalk it up to incompetence rather than malice. Goldin is behaving unethically. They know that these cards have deactivated certs (or, at minimum, that the certs would become inactive if PSA was ever alerted to the issue), and they proceed with the listings anyway, with nothing in the titles or scans to alert bidders to the problem.

The DiMaggio is still listed and is currently at $1409, even though the cert was deactivated two days ago, so it's very misleading for Goldin to keep the lot open as a "PSA 3." The high bidder probably isn't aware that the card would likely receive a PSA "Authentic" grade on resubmission, just like the 1921 Exhibits Ruth did.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

I'm with you on this one. PSA's screwups are bad, but I chalk it up to incompetence rather than malice. Goldin is behaving unethically. They know that these cards have deactivated certs (or, at minimum, that the certs would become inactive if PSA was ever alerted to the issue), and they proceed with the listings anyway, with nothing in the titles or scans to alert bidders to the problem.

The DiMaggio is still listed and is currently at $1409, even though the cert was deactivated two days ago, so it's very misleading for Goldin to keep the lot open as a "PSA 3." The high bidder probably isn't aware that the card would likely receive a PSA "Authentic" grade on resubmission, just like the 1921 Exhibits Ruth did.

Wouldn't be the first time they knowingly auctioned off a deactivated cert, but Goldin did end up pulling the auction today.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Wouldn't be the first time they knowingly auctioned off a deactivated cert, but Goldin did end up pulling the auction today.

The pressure from forums and YouTube are the only reason they pulled it. They will sell nonsense like this in the future on purpose and we will have to call them out on it once again.

[DragonWagon]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

.

Looks like PSA has corrected it https://www.psacard.com/cert/86528730