Issue with BBCE Box

[1989FF]

Originally Posted by signed79

They will have no money in the collection, therefore, they will make 100% profit regardless of the sales price.

While technically true, that's not how I look at it. I want my money (family money) to grow.

[1989FF]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

OPENED JULY 1, 2019
F*c! Face Unopened Authenticators.
We guarantee to look at every single pack, 1952 Topps or 1987 Topps!
Competitive pricing, cost is only 5% of market value!

CLOSED JULY 1,2020
F*c! Face Unopened Authenticators.
TEMPORARY CLOSURE ONLY-CURRENTLY AUTHENTICATING 1987,1988 and 1989 Topps boxes Blowout Members ThosebackPages,Archangel1775 and Reed Kasaoka sent!
WILL REOPEN SEPTEMBER 1,2022 )

I would not authenticate a box for 5%. At 30 seconds a pack, 5% with a $8 minimum would get me $40 per hour gross at the minimum. Not counting supplies, paperwork, labor taxes, insurance, and labor to ship. I'll pass on that venture. If I did do it, I would not need to close though. I would hire additional help. I would also slightly increase pricing. This would slightly slow some incoming orders while I catch up. Based on current sales a slight increase would be easily accepted by customers and help cover the cost of additional help and OT as I train.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by TanksCards

glad someone said this. I enjoyed watching his vids for awhile, but seeing what people send him and what he sends out in his Patreon (sp?) boxes is horrible. Someone sent him a macbook and a t206 cy young this week...saw a video of what he sends people in his $100 box and it was a random minor league autographed baseball, a few balls he snagged at a pirates game, and a bunch of worthless graded cards. guy has a beautiful scam going

I'd like to try and see the best in people, but man...that channel just gives me huge Haiku vibes. The whole charitable 'pay it forward' thing, when he's the one getting all the freebies then charging people $100 for a box filled with 2 dollar bobbleheads and 20 dollars worth of junk wax. But of course the mailday rippers are all smiles on camera when they unpack a slabbed 1998 donruss diamond king common in psa 8...because it's fun and for a good cause...I guess. I don't even want to comment about his thousands of 'video documented' baseballs on ebay, none of which are actually shown or inspected on video for visual photo matching.

[3AND4]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Oh, so people know. I bought 5 1972 Topps series 2 packs from him a few years back. I opened 2 and pulled a Staubach RC, PSA 9 OC. I looked at the front card on the 3rd, Johnny Unitas. The 4th had O.J. Simpson. The 5th had a running back from the Dolphins. I had no idea who it was so I opened it. Yup, Larry Csonka. Duh! I still trust them even after this 1982 Fleer fiasco.

I dont think trust in the sense of them scamming cards searching packs is the issue in the thread.

I dont see any posts accusing bbce of switching the pack or being dishonest.

I think bbce has better things to do than scam a 1982 fleer pack.

What people are saying is this company has become the standard of authenticating unopened product.

If they missed this what else can they or have they missed.

Too many people are excusing it as a 3 dollar mistake.

Its not the dollar amount. Its the fact something slipped past them.

Some people may be worried that something may have slipped past on a wrapped bbce box they own.

I love the poster that compared it to 2011 update. That is a great scenario.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I think people are being really melodramatic about this.

You're acting like BBCE's product is no good. I've been buying their stuff for over a decade and have never gotten a bum pack. I know how to check the authentication of packs, too.

You know what I do have? A laundry list of unopened packs with stars/rookies showing that I got from BBCE orders. I have 3 packs of '85 Leaf with Clemens on the back. One of them I got when I decided to just toss in three packs of '85 Leaf to an order. Really glad I checked the back of those first. '87 OPC with Bonds on front and one with him on back, '87 Leaf with multiple of everyone -- Bonds, Maddux, Bo, etc.

I'd buy just five racks of '86 Donruss and one would have the McGriff RR and another Clemens. There would be times I would grab a small group of packs to scratch the itch to rip and I couldn't rip ANY of them because they all had a star/rookie showing.

Gimme a break with this unique, never happened before $3 pack mixup.

Arthur

I'm with you Author: I'm surprised this thread has gathered this much traction.


This is a box where the packs are the same color. An easy mistake from a guy who doesn't make many.


My experience with Steve Hart: Top notch, always professional, and very knowledgable.

He's authenticated everything for me from a 1977 topps baseball box to a 1985 topps cello box, and recently several rack packs, one of which he showed me was tampered with (1979 baseball)


I am sure he will make this right. There is absolutely no one else I would trust to authenticate vintage, or buy vintage from. I have no reservations holding onto my unopened product from BBCE for the next 20 years.

[Morgoth]

I think its very telling that people here are attacking Jabs when all he did was open boxes he paid for and sold at basically list price to his Patreon customers.

I think he is very naive on some things but he has shared so much personal info on his channel if he ever went rogue he wouldn't get very far that's for sure.

BBCE made a mistake and should do something to make it right. Heck that 81 Donruss box he opened should have been replaced just for good PR purposes.

[vwnut13]

Why am I not surprised that ThoseBackPages is in here defending another shoddy authentication scheme?

[1989FF]

Considering the recent related events, we need clarification and assurance. If ever at any time, now is it. The point I'm trying to make is what about post 20 years. Lets think "Hobby Good". Not just 'Steve will fix it". We all know Steve will fix our issue. Like I said before...... Consider the "No Steve era". If his business failed, what if the next in charge does not " guarantee previous management decisions". What then? He's a big player. A big name. Big money. People will remember BBCE after all the current posters on here meet their demise. Do you PSA because you trust Joe Orlando? For 75% of you the answer is no. It's the brand PSA you trust. Just like BBCE for many. So when there's no Steve @BBCE will it be like old GAI flips vs. GA?

TDLR: BBCE; Not having explicit details of the service you provide may be questioned by the owners as there's holes in the service you provide based on opinions posted here. Considering current scam and hobby distrust events, I'm trying to help another hobby service be transparent and crystal clear as we have seen we're kinda guessing. Please fix it, as it would be simple. You removed the guarantee for a reason. Why?

It's really "our" hobby. Lets not let our investments sway our integrity.

[signed79]

Originally Posted by 1989FF

Considering the recent related events, we need clarification and assurance. If ever at any time, now is it. The point I'm trying to make is what about post 20 years. Lets think "Hobby Good". Not just 'Steve will fix it". We all know Steve will fix our issue. Like I said before...... Consider the "No Steve era". If his business failed, what if the next in charge does not " guarantee previous management decisions". What then? He's a big player. A big name. Big money. People will remember BBCE after all the current posters on here meet their demise. Do you PSA because you trust Joe Orlando? For 75% of you the answer is no. It's the brand PSA you trust. Just like BBCE for many. So when there's no Steve @BBCE will it be like old GAI flips vs. GA?

TDLR: BBCE; Not having explicit details of the service you provide may be questioned by the owners as there's holes in the service you provide based on opinions posted here. Considering current scam and hobby distrust events, I'm trying to help another hobby service be transparent and crystal clear as we have seen we're kinda guessing. Please fix it, as it would be simple. You removed the guarantee for a reason. Why?

It's really "our" hobby. Lets not let our investments sway our integrity.

What if someone opens a FASC box, fills it back with resealed packs, then wraps it in BBCE wrap?

Why not invest in tamper proof slabs for boxes?

I don't think BBCE boxes were ever intended to be long-term investment pieces.

[Archangel1775]

Well, BBCE can go one way or the other in the long run. They can guarantee their product similar to PSA or not guarantee their product similar to BGS.

This would have to turn into a corporation and essentially, start their own wrapping/slabbing of boxes and packs. Maybe it's good timing with the PWCC/PSA trimming/BGS favorable grade fiascos.

Prices would surely go up though. Maybe this 1981 Fleer pack could be the pack that shut down legit PSA pack grading!

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by 1989FF

Considering the recent related events, we need clarification and assurance. If ever at any time, now is it. The point I'm trying to make is what about post 20 years. Lets think "Hobby Good". Not just 'Steve will fix it". We all know Steve will fix our issue. Like I said before...... Consider the "No Steve era". If his business failed, what if the next in charge does not " guarantee previous management decisions". What then? He's a big player. A big name. Big money. People will remember BBCE after all the current posters on here meet their demise. Do you PSA because you trust Joe Orlando? For 75% of you the answer is no. It's the brand PSA you trust. Just like BBCE for many. So when there's no Steve @BBCE will it be like old GAI flips vs. GA?

TDLR: BBCE; Not having explicit details of the service you provide may be questioned by the owners as there's holes in the service you provide based on opinions posted here. Considering current scam and hobby distrust events, I'm trying to help another hobby service be transparent and crystal clear as we have seen we're kinda guessing. Please fix it, as it would be simple. You removed the guarantee for a reason. Why?

It's really "our" hobby. Lets not let our investments sway our integrity.

What if a meteor hits PSA's building?

Authentic means factory sealed, untampered with. You're the first person that hasn't been able to understand that that I've ever run across.

Do you know how to authenticate an unopened pack/box?

Arthur

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by rats60

When you have a box that is easily searchable, you have 1 card of value in the set and you have 1 pack missing replaced by a pack from a different year, a light should go off. This was a big miss by BBCE that was easily catchable if they had taken more care in examining the product. The excuse that the box isn't that valuable doesn't hold water. The buyer got a pretty much worthless searched box and giving him an extra pack doesn't make up for that.

A 1982 Fleer box is not easily searchable.

Arthur

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Well, BBCE can go one way or the other in the long run. They can guarantee their product similar to PSA or not guarantee their product similar to BGS.

This would have to turn into a corporation and essentially, start their own wrapping/slabbing of boxes and packs. Maybe it's good timing with the PWCC/PSA trimming/BGS favorable grade fiascos.

Prices would surely go up though. Maybe this 1981 Fleer pack could be the pack that shut down legit PSA pack grading!

This is basically what this thread is about. A bunch of anonymous people on the internet that are riding the tide of others and hoping to get their Junior G-Man badge. I've never seen such a nothing get blown so far out of proportion by people claiming to be do-gooders while they pick apart one of the few honest people we have in the hobby.

Annnnnnd it just now occurred to me. We're on Blowout, a competitor.

[1989FF]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

What if a meteor hits PSA's building?

Authentic means factory sealed, untampered with. You're the first person that hasn't been able to understand that that I've ever run across.

Do you know how to authenticate an unopened pack/box?

Arthur

Why even post this? Unnecessary.

I understand what authentic means and yes I know how to authenticate a pack/box. The point is what does it mean to BBCE.

So like I'm saying...I hope/wish there can be some clarification as to what this service provides so we can avoid bickering for pages.

Some think every pack is checked, or in stacks, or a few random ones. Which is it? The more the value, the more attention you get? Then put that disclaimer on the site.

[1989FF]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

This is basically what this thread is about. A bunch of anonymous people on the internet that are riding the tide of others and hoping to get their Junior G-Man badge. I've never seen such a nothing get blown so far out of proportion by people claiming to be do-gooders while they pick apart one of the few honest people we have in the hobby.

Annnnnnd it just now occurred to me. We're on Blowout, a competitor.

Edited to add I have ordered from Blowout. Once. A case in 2011. Been a customer of BBCE for 13+ years or so.

Junior G Man badge? You have no clue apparently who I am or my intentions. For a little backstory, I'm the OP in this old thread below. I chime in to help the hobby from time to time. Stop assuming I'm some young sucking on teets of whatever crap you spewed earlier in the thread and some looking for attention kinda person. Your baseless and generic put down statements against me show your ignorance. I have not attacked you. I don't know you. You're not the issue anyways. We can discuss our differences. Lets not assume each others intentions. Lets not assume what authentic means to BBCE. Lets get them to put it in print (as I feel it's necessary) what they do to authenticate a box.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...n-story-busted

[1989FF]

Originally Posted by signed79

What if someone opens a FASC box, fills it back with resealed packs, then wraps it in BBCE wrap?

Why not invest in tamper proof slabs for boxes?

I don't think BBCE boxes were ever intended to be long-term investment pieces.

Nothing in this hobby was intended for long term investment. But it is what it is. BBCE is aware the majority of the boxes they wrap are to be stored longer than they already have been. I'm surprised and happy that wax paper that's 50+ years old can still stay sealed.

Scammers gonna scam. Just have to be one step ahead of them or aware of the possibility and catch it before it becomes too large.

I love the idea of tamper proof slabs for boxes.

[freddyb]

Originally Posted by rats60

When you have a box that is easily searchable, you have 1 card of value in the set and you have 1 pack missing replaced by a pack from a different year, a light should go off. This was a big miss by BBCE that was easily catchable if they had taken more care in examining the product. The excuse that the box isn't that valuable doesn't hold water. The buyer got a pretty much worthless searched box and giving him an extra pack doesn't make up for that.

THIS^

[GORE]

Not to derail this thread, but I don't get the "hate" for Jabs.

Until 2 months ago I didn't even really know that there were YouTube "breaks" videos. The last time I collected there wasn't even Youtube...heck, there was barely an Internet.

Jabs was one of the first breakers that I watched and subscribed to. It would seem that others on here watch him (and maybe his brother) since this video was watched by several other forum members.

I always found his videos to be well made, he presents the cards well, speaks clearly, and isn't a "dead-fish" like of the other folks breaking packs on YouTube.

It seems like people on here hate him though??? Did he steal from someone? Scam someone? I am not being a smarta**, I am genuinely curious as I don't want to "promote" someone who is damaging the hobby. Being late to the game I totally expect that I have missed A LOT, and I may have missed him doing something shady.

I don't think that his fans sending him random expensive stuff, or paying him for a "subscription" and not getting "good" stuff is cause for hate. If they want to support him that's their business, and as long as they know what he's selling...I don't care. It would seem that they like him and what he's doing. I'm not sending him $100 bucks for a random bp ball...or sending him a computer anytime soon...but I won't bash him for being (relatively) successful. F him though if he's a genuine scam artist.

[boston12]

Originally Posted by GORE

Not to derail this thread, but I don't get the "hate" for Jabs.

Until 2 months ago I didn't even really know that there were YouTube "breaks" videos. The last time I collected there wasn't even Youtube...heck, there was barely an Internet.

Jabs was one of the first breakers that I watched and subscribed to. It would seem that others on here watch him (and maybe his brother) since this video was watched by several other forum members.

I always found his videos to be well made, he presents the cards well, speaks clearly, and isn't a "dead-fish" like of the other folks breaking packs on YouTube.

It seems like people on here hate him though??? Did he steal from someone? Scam someone? I am not being a smarta**, I am genuinely curious as I don't want to "promote" someone who is damaging the hobby. Being late to the game I totally expect that I have missed A LOT, and I may have missed him doing something shady.

I don't think that his fans sending him random expensive stuff, or paying him for a "subscription" and not getting "good" stuff is cause for hate. If they want to support him that's their business, and as long as they know what he's selling...I don't care. It would seem that they like him and what he's doing. I'm not sending him $100 bucks for a random bp ball...or sending him a computer anytime soon...but I won't bash him for being (relatively) successful. F him though if he's a genuine scam artist.

Jabs is brilliant. His followers who send him gifts and what not are not brilliant

[GORE]

Originally Posted by boston12

Jabs is brilliant. His followers who send him gifts and what not are not brilliant

I can agree in that I don't "get it."

I can't say why some people send him such valuable things, other than they're thinking that they are going to make "friends" with someone they consider a "celebrity" (don't overthink that comment, you know what I mean). Or that they just want their name mentioned in his vids for the recognition factor or to gain followers on their won channels.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by vwnut13

Why am I not surprised that ThoseBackPages is in here defending another shoddy authentication scheme?

so now you are calling Steve shoddy?

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by 1989FF

Why even post this? Unnecessary.

I understand what authentic means and yes I know how to authenticate a pack/box. The point is what does it mean to BBCE.

So like I'm saying...I hope/wish there can be some clarification as to what this service provides so we can avoid bickering for pages.

Some think every pack is checked, or in stacks, or a few random ones. Which is it? The more the value, the more attention you get? Then put that disclaimer on the site.

What does authentic mean to BBCE? This is really the thing you've been carrying on about for this whole thread? Are you serious? I mean, I hate to speak for BBCE but this one is so ABC dumb that I think they'll be okay with it. It means the pack is untampered with, it hasn't been resealed. But you're blowing through Huggies by the dozen because nowhere on their website does it specifically spell that out in simply terms that you would be happy with?

Originally Posted by 1989FF

Edited to add I have ordered from Blowout. Once. A case in 2011. Been a customer of BBCE for 13+ years or so.

Junior G Man badge? You have no clue apparently who I am or my intentions. For a little backstory, I'm the OP in this old thread below. I chime in to help the hobby from time to time. Stop assuming I'm some young sucking on teets of whatever crap you spewed earlier in the thread and some looking for attention kinda person. Your baseless and generic put down statements against me show your ignorance. I have not attacked you. I don't know you. You're not the issue anyways. We can discuss our differences. Lets not assume each others intentions. Lets not assume what authentic means to BBCE. Lets get them to put it in print (as I feel it's necessary) what they do to authenticate a box.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...n-story-busted

Did you just "Do you know who I am?" me? I'm pretty sure you just "Do you know who I am?"'d me. You're the guy that really, really likes the '89 Fleer Billy Ripken. We're all impressed. That has no bearing on this. Although props on the balls it takes to use an 11-year old thread as the "this will show them how I'm out fighting the good fight!"

Arthur

[1989FF]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

What does authentic mean to BBCE? This is really the thing you've been carrying on about for this whole thread? Are you serious? I mean, I hate to speak for BBCE but this one is so ABC dumb that I think they'll be okay with it. It means the pack is untampered with, it hasn't been resealed. But you're blowing through Huggies by the dozen because nowhere on their website does it specifically spell that out in simply terms that you would be happy with?



Did you just "Do you know who I am?" me? I'm pretty sure you just "Do you know who I am?"'d me. You're the guy that really, really likes the '89 Fleer Billy Ripken. We're all impressed. That has no bearing on this. Although props on the balls it takes to use an 11-year old thread as the "this will show them how I'm out fighting the good fight!"

Arthur

I linked that thread to disprove your assumption of "anonymous people on the internet that are riding the tide of others and hoping to get their Junior G-Man badge." I'm not anonymous. I have a name/rep. I'm not riding the tide of others either as I've done this before.

[emoticon]

I reached out to Steve Hart from BBCE regarding the Fleer issue and this is what he had to say:

OK, let me explain the process a little bit in detail.

When packages come in for authentication, someone from our team opens the packages and lays it out for me, along with their contact information. These packages come in through the week and then I go to work on the weekends to do the authentication. There is only 1 person who looks at the items for authentication. That’s me. Nobody else here does this job. Just me. We want to make sure its done consistently and correctly. This is why my weekends are completely taken up by this process. Only I can authenticate.

The process that I do involves looking over each and every pack. Not half the box. Not a percentage of the box. But I look over every single pack in every box. It takes time, but this is the way it is done. Believe me, looking over every single pack in boxes of junk wax really can get boring!

So how did this happen with the 1981 pack being in a 1982 box? Well, I first take out a stack of 9 packs and look at the corner folds on all 9 packs as they still sit in the group of 9. I look at both sides. I then look at the roller mark on each of the 9 packs. I do this for all 4 stacks (or 3 stacks or whatever the size box is). The surface of the pack is basically zero percent of authenticating a box. The whole process involves the corner folds, the roller marks and really nothing to do with the top surface of the pack. I do check the surface for price tags (You will see boxes we label as W/Price Tags if they are still on the pack). So with this in mind, the pack is red from both years and has a similar back from both years. The corner folds are the same as is the roller mark. So how did I miss it? Was a simple mistake. Yes, us humans will do that occasionally. I cant walk on water yet, so mistakes can happen. It happened and we will try not to let it happen anymore. We have done over 10,000 boxes of authentication/wrapping and this is the first time I have heard of this happening. Thanks for listening! Steve

Steve Hart
Baseball Card Exchange, Inc.
2412 US Highway 41
Schererville, Indiana 46375
(800) 598-8656
www.bbcexchange.com
bbcexchange@sprintmail.com

[ThoseBackPages]

There you have it.

Feel free to stop buying from them now ::rolls eyes::