Skybox 2024 1992 MM Platinum

[meandsharon11]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Great price on that, decent character too- I think kaleidoscopes have dried up somewhat already. You don’t usually see them going down to $30.

I haven’t seen one less than $50. I wonder if their print run is the same or less than the red pmg’s.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by meandsharon11

I haven’t seen one less than $50. I wonder if their print run is the same or less than the red pmg’s.

"Probably" quite a bit less

It's hard to say exactly, but I think Dyna has posted numbers on here at one point.

Cool looking set though, one of the nicest, IMO. Great pick up

[meandsharon11]

Originally Posted by orion9578

"Probably" quite a bit less

It's hard to say exactly, but I think Dyna has posted numbers on here at one point.

Cool looking set though, one of the nicest, IMO. Great pick up

Thank you!

I hope it is less, cause once the print run is released it will most likely drive up the price. Just like pmg’s when they started getting released 20 years after production.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by meandsharon11

Thank you!

I hope it is less, cause once the print run is released it will most likely drive up the price. Just like pmg’s when they started getting released 20 years after production.

Yep agree with Orion, a lot less than /100. Kaleidoscopes are a lot closer to /25 orange lavas than red pmgs. They will probably be not far off the orange lavas long term.

Problem is they aren’t numbered so they don’t get the attention their rarity deserves sometimes. Also they arent pack-inserted, but that can be either a pro or a con for some people. Personally I think being an exclusive epack combinable/achievement makes something desirable. In any case…I expect the kaleids to dry up quite a bit going forward.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by meandsharon11

Thank you!

I hope it is less, cause once the print run is released it will most likely drive up the price. Just like pmg’s when they started getting released 20 years after production.

They won't release a print run ... It's all a guess based off the suspected ePack allocation... I want to say that if everything lined up perfectly(all that could get redeemed, based off that suspected allocation, got redeemed), it was something like 50~ max. But things are never perfect and probably far from that number. Like Dyna states below, could be closer to 25 than 50, but definitely a lot less than 100.

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Yep agree with Orion, a lot less than /100. Kaleidoscopes are a lot closer to /25 orange lavas than red pmgs. They will probably be not far off the orange lavas long term.

Problem is they aren’t numbered so they don’t get the attention their rarity deserves sometimes. Also they arent pack-inserted, but that can be either a pro or a con for some people. Personally I think being an exclusive epack combinable/achievement makes something desirable. In any case…I expect the kaleids to dry up quite a bit going forward.

That's been the case at times and people don't seem to care at times, haha.

16MM acetates are a great example of "people care":



Then there are ones that are very rare and people don't really care, haha:



I'd guess there MIGHT be 7 or 8 of those, maybe less...cool image too, but I don't think anyone(or very few) cares...which is fine, it's in my PC anyways

Where the Kaleidoscopes end up, who knows. I suspect at least some people will care, but I doubt they get the kind of attention 16MM does. Maybe closer to the middle

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by orion9578

They won't release a print run ... It's all a guess based off the suspected ePack allocation... I want to say that if everything lined up perfectly(all that could get redeemed, based off that suspected allocation, got redeemed), it was something like 50~ max. But things are never perfect and probably far from that number. Like Dyna states below, could be closer to 25 than 50, but definitely a lot less than 100.

That's been the case at times and people don't seem to care at times, haha.

16MM acetates are a great example of "people care":



Then there are ones that are very rare and people don't really care, haha:



I'd guess there MIGHT be 7 or 8 of those, maybe less...cool image too, but I don't think anyone(or very few) cares...which is fine, it's in my PC anyways

Where the Kaleidoscopes end up, who knows. I suspect at least some people will care, but I doubt they get the kind of attention 16MM does. Maybe closer to the middle

Blown away by that 2016MM acetate result…I mean we’re talking about Iron Man here and not even Spidey Edit- or is it a 4-card set…either way $14999 is bonkers.

I guess that was closer to the pandemic craziness but still. It’s gotta be master set collectors of MM16 pushing that stuff way high. Definitely not nearly as many Marvel Premier master set collectors, but that’s still a very cool looking card that I don’t think I’ve even seen before.

Maybe the very top VIP Blacks in platinum could approach some of the higher MM16 achievements someday, but not sure. MM16 does have a legendary “elite” type feel to it. Being one of the first epack marvel sets also makes it special with the achievements. Being so novel at the time.

The Kaleidoscopes seem very underrated for their rarity, but Im probably a bit biased having gone for them.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Blown away by that 2016MM acetate result…I mean we’re talking about Iron Man here and not even Spidey Edit- or is it a 4-card set…either way $14999 is bonkers.

I guess that was closer to the pandemic craziness but still. It’s gotta be master set collectors of MM16 pushing that stuff way high. Definitely not nearly as many Marvel Premier master set collectors, but that’s still a very cool looking card that I don’t think I’ve even seen before.

Maybe the very top VIP Blacks in platinum could approach some of the higher MM16 achievements someday, but not sure. MM16 does have a legendary “elite” type feel to it. Being one of the first epack marvel sets also makes it special with the achievements. Being so novel at the time.

The Kaleidoscopes seem very underrated for their rarity, but Im probably a bit biased having gone for them.

I tend to agree, those tippy top VIP's will probably be big cards/some already are. The only thing going against them, IMO, is they are numbered as a subset. VIP-1 etc. While the 16MM achievements do note that they are achievements, they are numbered the same as they are in the set...which always helps add value. Example:

Star-Lord is card #41 in the set. Besides both Jusko autos /10, he has:

#41 Base /1499
#41 WI /999
#41 Gold
#41 Gold Achievement
#41 Base Achievement
Purple(/199)/Orange(/99)/Red(1/1)

Anyways, IMO, them being #41 in the set vs VIP-5(or whatever), helps them.

I mentioned it several times to UD that numbering achievement cards AND giving them that base parallel designation is important to collectors. They didn't listen often but on occasion it seemed like they did

I still think those VIP's will be massive cards down the road, even with all that rambling I just did

As far as the Kaleidoscopes go...maybe they end up closer to something like FUSM Rainbows, which was a combined vs achievement and those things sell pretty freaking high on certain characters. Obviously, I'm not talking about the rainbow web foils, as those are probably in the sub /5 range on highly collected characters...but those base rainbows are probably a good place to start when talking about the kaleidoscopes possible future value

PS. Yup, it's a 4 card partial set on the 16MM achievements. Missing either the gold or base Spidey/DP and lower level cards

[finfangfan]

While the FUSM rainbows were tough to make, I feel the rainbow effect used is tough to identify. Iirc the card backs don’t even have anything to indicate they are the rainbow parallel… something UD began adding a set or two later.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by orion9578

I tend to agree, those tippy top VIP's will probably be big cards/some already are. The only thing going against them, IMO, is they are numbered as a subset. VIP-1 etc. While the 16MM achievements do note that they are achievements, they are numbered the same as they are in the set...which always helps add value. Example:

Star-Lord is card #41 in the set. Besides both Jusko autos /10, he has:

#41 Base /1499
#41 WI /999
#41 Gold
#41 Gold Achievement
#41 Base Achievement
Purple(/199)/Orange(/99)/Red(1/1)

Anyways, IMO, them being #41 in the set vs VIP-5(or whatever), helps them.

I mentioned it several times to UD that numbering achievement cards AND giving them that base parallel designation is important to collectors. They didn't listen often but on occasion it seemed like they did

I still think those VIP's will be massive cards down the road, even with all that rambling I just did

As far as the Kaleidoscopes go...maybe they end up closer to something like FUSM Rainbows, which was a combined vs achievement and those things sell pretty freaking high on certain characters. Obviously, I'm not talking about the rainbow web foils, as those are probably in the sub /5 range on highly collected characters...but those base rainbows are probably a good place to start when talking about the kaleidoscopes possible future value

PS. Yup, it's a 4 card partial set on the 16MM achievements. Missing either the gold or base Spidey/DP and lower level cards

Yea that makes sense about the set numbering. When it’s the actual base card number then it’s more of a “true parallel” I suppose, which would be more ideal.

That price is insane for the partial MM16 acetate set. On the other hand, you basically CANNOT just go on the market and find those…so I get it for a desperate master set collector (I did plenty with the MM16 set, but *not* a full set of achievements…if you didn’t get in on those early…it’s basically not happening. The Spider-Man rainbow achievement is simply gorgeous…and probably a $5-10k card).

I think the Kaleidoscopes to 2017FUSM rainbows would be a solid comparison (not an expert on the print run of those rainbows, but sounds about right).

You just got me thinking, about the set numbering of the VIP Blacks….can you imagine they just made a whole 100-card set of the VIP blacks. Holy cow, I would have been thoroughly obsessed with making that set. On the other hand, 100 different things to do for achievements probably isn’t feasible. Hahah

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

While the FUSM rainbows were tough to make, I feel the rainbow effect used is tough to identify. Iirc the card backs don’t even have anything to indicate they are the rainbow parallel… something UD began adding a set or two later.

It depends what you mean by tough to identify

I did both the base rainbow and web foil sets and had them in hand. Glaringly obvious that they are different. About the same difference as holding a late 90's Topps Chrome base vs refractor. But, in good and bad pictures, they can be tough to tell the difference. Good pictures of base can look like rainbows and bad pictures of rainbows can look like base, haha.

But that's really no different than the 16MM achievements. I did 2 sets of the top tier of those as well and the base(silver) and in particular the golds are basically the same card. At least with the silver it wasn't serial numbered. The acetates were obviously easy to tell.

To get back on track, I think the FUSM rainbows are a place to start and IMO, since we're talking MM vs FU...the kaleidoscopes have a big advantage being MM. Fleer Ultra has a following, but MM has a cult like following. But, they're both great looking combinable cards from highly collected sets...so I think the comparison is a valid one. In the end though, MM > FU.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Yea that makes sense about the set numbering. When it’s the actual base card number then it’s more of a “true parallel” I suppose, which would be more ideal.

That price is insane for the partial MM16 acetate set. On the other hand, you basically CANNOT just go on the market and find those…so I get it for a desperate master set collector (I did plenty with the MM16 set, but *not* a full set of achievements…if you didn’t get in on those early…it’s basically not happening. The Spider-Man rainbow achievement is simply gorgeous…and probably a $5-10k card).

I think the Kaleidoscopes to 2017FUSM rainbows would be a solid comparison (not an expert on the print run of those rainbows, but sounds about right).

You just got me thinking, about the set numbering of the VIP Blacks….can you imagine they just made a whole 100-card set of the VIP blacks. Holy cow, I would have been thoroughly obsessed with making that set. On the other hand, 100 different things to do for achievements probably isn’t feasible. Hahah

Yeah, I don't recall them ever doing full sets as achievements... You basically got a few cards from each level for doing certain parts of certain sets... If that makes sense ... Example:

Iron Man and Wolverine 16MM acetates you got for doing the tier 4 WI's /50(probably closer to like /25 as I think the allocation was close to 50%...and from there those 2 acetates are probably closer to /10 max)

The only full set types are combinable cards, not achievements. At least the ones I can think of...maybe they did do a full set of something that I'm not thinking of

Did you happen to grab more than 1 of any of the top tier VIP's from the set? Would be interesting to test the market with it...just to see what type of offers come in.

I wasn't even on site for the set, so I am semi clueless on it. What were the top tier VIP's? How did you make them? Any guess how many were made? If you can answer some/all of those questions, you might able to make a more educated guess as to the value on them

[orion9578]

Never mind... I found the checklist.


So, just based off COMC numbers, I'm going to guess Thanos was the cut off for them being at least reasonably easy to make. There are 5 sold She-Hulks and I didn't check below her character(sold numbers). Thanos and Venom only show 1 sold each and there aren't even any Wolverine or Spider-Man's that made it to COMC... Odd!

Without knowing much more about how they were made or how many were made I'll toss out a guess... Don't sell those cards Dyna, haha. You probably have the ONLY full set made...off site at least. Can you check them on ePack? My account has been turned off since 6/2024, so I can't check .

I suspect there are several sets made, but they either shipped directly home or are still on site. They could be locked, making it even harder to try and figure out... I know for a FACT that as late as 6/2024, there was at least 1 full set, with all achievements, of 2016MM still on site...just locked. They are owned by an Australian account that I was friendly with and traded with quite a bit, but had been a red dot since like 2020. BUT, BUT BUT BUT, since we had traded some of those achievement cards in 2016...I could still see that he had them on site, just locked

Anyways, the VIP set could be an absolutely massive set in the next few years/longer. I usually do my rambling via PM, not in the main... Sorry

[Spacemanspif]

I'm only missing the Thanos and Wolverine Blacks. If anyone knows of anybody who has an extra of each, I'd be happy to buy or trade for them, just so I can be in the cool club with Dyna


And while we're at it, I only need Spidey Red PMG to have a non 1/1 base rainbow... still need VC Purple Orange and Gold for a full non 1/1 rainbow

Edit: oops, forgot about Greens. Those aren’t on my checklist either as they seemed too unrealistic

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by orion9578

MM > FU.

Ain’t that the truth…although I might just be a taddd bit biased

FU does have a strong cult following of its own, especially the 2017 and 2018 sets, plus the 90s FU sets were all top tier. But the most important brand in marvel cards is hands down MM and that has given the modern MM sets a ‘high end’ feel to them.

Originally Posted by orion9578

Never mind... I found the checklist.


So, just based off COMC numbers, I'm going to guess Thanos was the cut off for them being at least reasonably easy to make. There are 5 sold She-Hulks and I didn't check below her character(sold numbers). Thanos and Venom only show 1 sold each and there aren't even any Wolverine or Spider-Man's that made it to COMC... Odd!

Without knowing much more about how they were made or how many were made I'll toss out a guess... Don't sell those cards Dyna, haha. You probably have the ONLY full set made...off site at least. Can you check them on ePack? My account has been turned off since 6/2024, so I can't check .

I suspect there are several sets made, but they either shipped directly home or are still on site. They could be locked, making it even harder to try and figure out... I know for a FACT that as late as 6/2024, there was at least 1 full set, with all achievements, of 2016MM still on site...just locked. They are owned by an Australian account that I was friendly with and traded with quite a bit, but had been a red dot since like 2020. BUT, BUT BUT BUT, since we had traded some of those achievement cards in 2016...I could still see that he had them on site, just locked

Anyways, the VIP set could be an absolutely massive set in the next few years/longer. I usually do my rambling via PM, not in the main... Sorry

Think I might know who that Australian guy is, hah. It’s wild though…that complete achievement set is a pipe dream at this point, it’s amazing one even exists.

As for the VIP Blacks…I did see one other full set- it hit eBay a few months back, and it went for quite a bit. I don’t think I’ve seen basically any loose Thanos or higher’s for sale in a very long time. I was only able to get my set because all those were super early right after the epack drop.

The cut-offs for me are:

Gambit #18-She-Hulk #21 are very hard to find.

Thanos #22-Spiderman #25 are near impossible to find.

It really starts with the Gambit in terms of not being able to find one anywhere for long stretches. Some pics for reference of the two groups,





Did some digging on epack- the numbers for the second group on there are Thanos- 2, Venom- 1, Wolverine- 1, and Spidey- 1. I think for these a print run of < 5 is not out of the question. If I recall, to get a Spidey you have to get a complete red prism and Plexi set, so needless to say not an easy task.

Man I wish I had some dups of these biggies but I don’t have any. If I did I would also like to test that out and put one up for sale just to see where the market is at on them. The completed set won’t be going anywhere

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

I'm only missing the Thanos and Wolverine Blacks. If anyone knows of anybody who has an extra of each, I'd be happy to buy or trade for them, just so I can be in the cool club with Dyna


And while we're at it, I only need Spidey Red PMG to have a non 1/1 base rainbow... still need VC Purple Orange and Gold for a full non 1/1 rainbow

An amazing partial set, even if you don't get to join the cool club anytime soon . I bet you'd have the best luck trying to get someone on ePack to move one of the blacks

You missed my Spidey Red PMG by... 2 days, haha. It's off to its final resting place, which would be in Dyna's Red PMG set. I'm sure you can nab a Gold off eBay at basically any point(maybe...I haven't looked!). The Orange will probably be tough to find and the Purple VC...good luck! There needs to be a huge sale on retail for more of those to see the light of day. That's the only set I've actively been searching on a daily basis and 0 get listed most days. Matter fact, it's been over 2 week since there has been a listing, save the Sleepwalker that sold via COMC auction a few days ago.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Ain’t that the truth…although I might just be a taddd bit biased

FU does have a strong cult following of its own, especially the 2017 and 2018 sets, plus the 90s FU sets were all top tier. But the most important brand in marvel cards is hands down MM and that has given the modern MM sets a ‘high end’ feel to them.



Think I might know who that Australian guy is, hah. It’s wild though…that complete achievement set is a pipe dream at this point, it’s amazing one even exists.

As for the VIP Blacks…I did see one other full set- it hit eBay a few months back, and it went for quite a bit. I don’t think I’ve seen basically any loose Thanos or higher’s for sale in a very long time. I was only able to get my set because all those were super early right after the epack drop.

The cut-offs for me are:

Gambit #18-She-Hulk #21 are very hard to find.

Thanos #22-Spiderman #25 are near impossible to find.

It really starts with the Gambit in terms of not being able to find one anywhere for long stretches. Some pics for reference of the two groups,





Did some digging on epack- the numbers for the second group on there are Thanos- 2, Venom- 1, Wolverine- 1, and Spidey- 1. I think for these a print run of < 5 is not out of the question. If I recall, to get a Spidey you have to get a complete red prism and Plexi set, so needless to say not an easy task.

Man I wish I had some dups of these biggies but I don’t have any. If I did I would also like to test that out and put one up for sale just to see where the market is at on them. The completed set won’t be going anywhere

Awesome to see pictures!

There's definitely more than 5 of them but I'd guess /10~ is where they sit. Spider-Man is the big clue here:

Spaceman - 1
Dyna - 1
ePack - 1
PSA - 3(2 10's, 1 9)

I don't see any on CGC or SGC, though I could have missed them. Assuming Spider-Man was the hardest to make, since he's the last in the set, so he'd have the fewest. A lot of ASSuming, since I wasn't on site to know...

Anyways, that's 6 known and I think it's safe to assume at least a few more are out there. Maybe in that set that sold. Maybe locked. Maybe shipped home.

Either way, a /10 set that is "important" has the makings of $$$, now and/or down the road

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

I'm only missing the Thanos and Wolverine Blacks. If anyone knows of anybody who has an extra of each, I'd be happy to buy or trade for them, just so I can be in the cool club with Dyna

And while we're at it, I only need Spidey Red PMG to have a non 1/1 base rainbow... still need VC Purple Orange and Gold for a full non 1/1 rainbow

Hey you got the hardest one in Spidey, man youre close. I would do just as Orion is suggesting…try to convince one of the epack owners of those 2 vip blacks you need to move it. The Thanos even has 2 currently on there. Convincing people on epack to move stuff usually requires offering stupid prices, but you never know.

As for the Spidey red…dang yea Orion just moved his…but being /100 shouldn’t be too much out of the question for another one to come up soon, I would think. Also am I reading this correctly, you have a Spidey PMG green and emerald?? Holy cow.

The purple vc Spidey is gonna be hard, I know quite a few people currently looking for that card. As Orion said…man we just don’t see many purple vc’s hit eBay anymore

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by orion9578

Awesome to see pictures!

There's definitely more than 5 of them but I'd guess /10~ is where they sit. Spider-Man is the big clue here:

Spaceman - 1
Dyna - 1
ePack - 1
PSA - 3(2 10's, 1 9)

I don't see any on CGC or SGC, though I could have missed them. Assuming Spider-Man was the hardest to make, since he's the last in the set, so he'd have the fewest. A lot of ASSuming, since I wasn't on site to know...

Anyways, that's 6 known and I think it's safe to assume at least a few more are out there. Maybe in that set that sold. Maybe locked. Maybe shipped home.

Either way, a /10 set that is "important" has the makings of $$$, now and/or down the road

Ah good point about checking the pop report. I never think to do that.

So no question both mine and the epack one are raw…but spaceman’s? Is that raw or could it be one of the PSA’s? I guess a long shot also could the 9 have been resubbed to be one of the 10s…probably not likely, but you never know.

Taking the most extreme case (spaceman’s is a PSA, the 9 has been resubbed) would mean the count there would be 4. If his is not a PSA and there really are 3 distinct PSA graded ones then yea at 6. And maybe like 2-5 others having been sent home/locked (outside of the ones already counted for spaceman and mine) just to ballpark….so /10, maybe a tad less, is not a bad guess. Also the Venoms and Wolverines I guess each have to be >= the amount of Spidey since both required to make a Spidey.

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by orion9578

Awesome to see pictures!

There's definitely more than 5 of them but I'd guess /10~ is where they sit. Spider-Man is the big clue here:

Spaceman - 1
Dyna - 1
ePack - 1
PSA - 3(2 10's, 1 9)

I don't see any on CGC or SGC, though I could have missed them. Assuming Spider-Man was the hardest to make, since he's the last in the set, so he'd have the fewest. A lot of ASSuming, since I wasn't on site to know...

Anyways, that's 6 known and I think it's safe to assume at least a few more are out there. Maybe in that set that sold. Maybe locked. Maybe shipped home.

Either way, a /10 set that is "important" has the makings of $$$, now and/or down the road

FWIW, mine is one of the PSA 10s, so only 5 known

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Hey you got the hardest one in Spidey, man youre close. I would do just as Orion is suggesting…try to convince one of the epack owners of those 2 vip blacks you need to move it. The Thanos even has 2 currently on there. Convincing people on epack to move stuff usually requires offering stupid prices, but you never know.

As for the Spidey red…dang yea Orion just moved his…but being /100 shouldn’t be too much out of the question for another one to come up soon, I would think. Also am I reading this correctly, you have a Spidey PMG green and emerald?? Holy cow.

The purple vc Spidey is gonna be hard, I know quite a few people currently looking for that card. As Orion said…man we just don’t see many purple vc’s hit eBay anymore

No I don’t have the greens, I don’t even track them on my checklists because they’re so unrealistic, so my amended statement would be “rainbows excluding 1/1 and green /10”

[meandsharon11]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

No I don’t have the greens, I don’t even track them on my checklists because they’re so unrealistic, so my amended statement would be “rainbows excluding 1/1 and green /10”

I feel your pain. I am in the same boat on my Dormammu rainbow, and there’s almost nobody else looking for the purple, orange or greens. I can’t imagine how much it would take to get a spidey purple or orange, much less a green or emerald, if they pop up.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

No I don’t have the greens, I don’t even track them on my checklists because they’re so unrealistic, so my amended statement would be “rainbows excluding 1/1 and green /10”

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

FWIW, mine is one of the PSA 10s, so only 5 known

Gotcha, was gonna say can’t even remember seeing a green Spidey PMG, did see an emerald though. Thats an incredible Spidey rainbow. Blue PMG and Orange Lava are huge cards.

And man…a Spidey VIP Black in PSA 10, that is…astounding. I don’t think it gets much better than that.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

FWIW, mine is one of the PSA 10s, so only 5 known

I'll still go with there are 10~

Amazing card, would love to see your '92 collection

[Watchmee]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

FWIW, mine is one of the PSA 10s, so only 5 known

any chance that some of the chase cards went not on the PSA but with the BGS or CGC grading route?

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by Watchmee

any chance that some of the chase cards went not on the PSA but with the BGS or CGC grading route?

I didn't see any at CGC or SGC(both COMC options at the time the set was out). I didn't even think to look at BGS...but you're right, there is 1 graded.

It looks like someone graded the whole set...perhaps the one that sold on eBay? Or one someone sent in themselves from ePack.



Also, meandsharon11, I saw this one on there:



Lastly, 3 Green PMG's and randomly(or not so randomly...), 2 of them are Venoms:



Interesting!