Topps Marvel Mint

[LittleJimmies]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

Is cutting out a comic a new thing? I am shocked it hasn't happened a ton already. If it is new, it feels like the sports card world further encroachment into Marvel collecting. Topps Chrome is 100% sports card driven. You can make a ton of 1/1 cut comic cards out of just a few comics. I an totally see making swatches out of a cover, the same way you get out of jersey. The logoman man will be the price/logo box.

No, it is not new at all.

[dd316]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

Is cutting out a comic a new thing? I am shocked it hasn't happened a ton already. If it is new, it feels like the sports card world further encroachment into Marvel collecting. Topps Chrome is 100% sports card driven. You can make a ton of 1/1 cut comic cards out of just a few comics. I an totally see making swatches out of a cover, the same way you get out of jersey. The logoman man will be the price/logo box.

Comic cuts have been a thing for probably at least a decade now.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by LittleJimmies

No, it is not new at all.

Originally Posted by dd316

Comic cuts have been a thing for probably at least a decade now.

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

Is cutting out a comic a new thing? I am shocked it hasn't happened a ton already. If it is new, it feels like the sports card world further encroachment into Marvel collecting. Topps Chrome is 100% sports card driven. You can make a ton of 1/1 cut comic cards out of just a few comics. I an totally see making swatches out of a cover, the same way you get out of jersey. The logoman man will be the price/logo box.

Like both of those folks said, nope, not new at all.

What is new is the bolded part... Haha. Thus far, Topps seems to be making a bunch of "1/1's", whereas UD hardly made any 1/1 Comic cuts...and when they did, it was something that "mattered"...




That would be page 1 from Amazing Fantasy 15...something WORTH putting a 1/1 on... Seems Topps is just buying $2 comics, cutting them up and slapping a 1/1 on them... And people are paying $3k-$6k for those "1/1's"

[LittleJimmies]

Originally Posted by orion9578

Like both of those folks said, nope, not new at all.

What is new is the bolded part... Haha. Thus far, Topps seems to be making a bunch of "1/1's", whereas UD hardly made any 1/1 Comic cuts...and when they did, it was something that "mattered"...




That would be page 1 from Amazing Fantasy 15...something WORTH putting a 1/1 on... Seems Topps is just buying $2 comics, cutting them up and slapping a 1/1 on them... And people are paying $3k-$6k for those "1/1's"

Better yet is that Topps 1/1's are no more 1/1 than UD #/65's. UD just never cultivated the collectively dim set of "collectors" Topps has.

Edit: Should have clipped the image better. These are all /65 comic cuts from Avengers (1998) #39, each one with a completely unique cut.




Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[glorbgorb]

While on the topic of Cuts, I just saw that there were 200 Doom Cut cards, all numbered 1/1. Topps is so out of touch with what actual collectors really want.

(Not sure if those 200 were all in the SDCC box or spread across both versions of Mint.)

[LittleJimmies]

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

While on the topic of Cuts, I just saw that there were 200 Doom Cut cards, all numbered 1/1. Topps is so out of touch with what actual collectors really want.

(Not sure if those 200 were all in the SDCC box or spread across both versions of Mint.)

They couldn't care less about actual collectors, all about $$$ and they have done a great job hooking people to throw money at them without actually caring about the products. None of it makes any sense anymore.

And that 200 number is actually insane, I figured it was much lower than that. Pity the fool that spend thousands on that cut.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by orion9578

It probably saw the light of day because there are several "1/1" cuts of Doom from the set. 3 "1/1's" have already ended since yesterday, ranging anywhere in price from $3,000-$6,000.

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

While on the topic of Cuts, I just saw that there were 200 Doom Cut cards, all numbered 1/1. Topps is so out of touch with what actual collectors really want.

(Not sure if those 200 were all in the SDCC box or spread across both versions of Mint.)

Yikes. Mentioned there were 3 the last time I posted...insane that there are 200. The first 3 that sold got $6,000, $4,900 & $3000. Imagine how silly those 3 must feel seeing that there are 200 "1/1's"... 2 of the 3 could have bought a 2022 Spider-Man Metal Amazing Fantasy 15 comic cut /15 instead...which was the HIGHEST previous sale on a comic cut over the last 3 years at $5,250~.

My best guess is that the 1/1 Doom's, at least in a few years, HAVE to be less then $500 a piece. They "should" be a couple hundred max, but people are silly. The AF15 Cut /15 on the other hand... Might be worth more but I suspect worst case it's worth roughly the same.

This is what I meant by uneducated consumers...in the TC thread. The amount of money being thrown away on singles and breaks is mind boggling

[hobbystuff]

Once an lcs owner told me that there is a sucker born every minute.

[kyle1707]

Originally Posted by orion9578

Yikes. Mentioned there were 3 the last time I posted...insane that there are 200. The first 3 that sold got $6,000, $4,900 & $3000. Imagine how silly those 3 must feel seeing that there are 200 "1/1's"... 2 of the 3 could have bought a 2022 Spider-Man Metal Amazing Fantasy 15 comic cut /15 instead...which was the HIGHEST previous sale on a comic cut over the last 3 years at $5,250~.

My best guess is that the 1/1 Doom's, at least in a few years, HAVE to be less then $500 a piece. They "should" be a couple hundred max, but people are silly. The AF15 Cut /15 on the other hand... Might be worth more but I suspect worst case it's worth roughly the same.

This is what I meant by uneducated consumers...in the TC thread. The amount of money being thrown away on singles and breaks is mind boggling

It’s the reason the hobby is so upside down. Floods of new people who have trouble understanding the simplest things

Can’t imagine the struggles they must have with homes and car payments

[CicadaMound]

There are also so few current non-sports collectors that word can't spread about how terrible Topps' practices are. There's no one out there saying the equivalent of "you shouldn't be hollering when you get a jersey relic" because very few people are familiar enough with modern non-sports.

Plus, to really understand the significance of comic cuts, you have to have knowledge about comics! If you're just a fan of the characters but don't read the damn books, you may not internalize that many old books with popular characters have gigantic, junk-wax-esque print runs, and that only a few specific books are really "worthy" of being cut up and put into relics that're worth anything.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by orion9578

Aren't almost all the cards we buy nowadays valuable because of manufactured scarcity?

The most beloved modern Marvel sets are built on it. From 13 Retro, 16MM, 17FUSM...etc. etc.

Example:



Exact same card, just serial numbered lower.

Any PMG from any set is based on the base card, just serial numbered, etc.

While I love bashing Topps as much as the next guy ... all the companies do this.

As to the card in question having any organic demand...I'd say yes, they do. Comic Cuts have a decent following, with some regularly selling for hundreds of dollars, some up into the thousands.

Now, if you ask ME if I'd pay that much for these particular cards...not in a million years. But there is demand for them.



It probably saw the light of day because there are several "1/1" cuts of Doom from the set. 3 "1/1's" have already ended since yesterday, ranging anywhere in price from $3,000-$6,000.

2016 MM is not popular because of the artificial scarcity of its parallels, though -- it's because of the great artwork from Joe Jusko and the high-quality designs.

I bought a ton of singles of 2016 MM when it first released and I mostly ignored the colored parallels -- orange, purple and red spectrum -- because there was so much other more worthwhile stuff to chase.

I have a handful of comic cut cards in my collection, but I wouldn't say they've been a top chase card. I read comic books growing up and know about all the big Marvel storylines, but I find comic cuts to mostly be gimmicky -- they're made from small pieces of mass-produced comic books that are generally easy to obtain on the secondary market.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

In that case I amend my statement to also complimenting that subset Since I don’t follow Chrome much I was not aware of it. Looking on eBay it does say on the backs of them art done by Rebeca Puebla, which I guess would suggest OA? They do look nice, the Galactus and Thanos especially.

Original art, yes, but digitally produced -- not physically.

Generative AI is already making this style of art much easier.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

2016 MM is not popular because of the artificial scarcity of its parallels, though -- it's because of the great artwork from Joe Jusko and the high-quality designs.

I bought a ton of singles of 2016 MM when it first released and I mostly ignored the colored parallels -- orange, purple and red spectrum -- because there was so much other more worthwhile stuff to chase.

I have a handful of comic cut cards in my collection, but I wouldn't say they've been a top chase card. I read comic books growing up and know about all the big Marvel storylines, but I find comic cuts to mostly be gimmicky -- they're made from small pieces of mass-produced comic books that are generally easy to obtain on the secondary market.

What does that have to do with the point I was making? It was an example, picked out of thin air and it just happened to be MM. I didn't say it was popular because of parallels. I said that the more valuable cards are the exact same cards as the "base", just numbered lower, which is what we were talking about

As far comic cuts go, they aren't for everyone. Neither is Topps Chrome, Marvel Masterpieces, Metal PMG's or...Marvel Cards, Sports cards, Cars, model trains...you get the point

The point of saying that the Doom cuts have demand was exactly that...they do have demand, to the tune of $3k-$6k, I guess. Those wouldn't be for me, at those prices...and it sounds like they aren't for you either. Apparently they are for some folks though, even at those ridiculously inflated prices

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by orion9578

What does that have to do with the point I was making? It was an example, picked out of thin air and it just happened to be MM. I didn't say it was popular because of parallels. I said that the more valuable cards are the exact same cards as the "base", just numbered lower, which is what we were talking about

I get your point, but actually, in the case of 2016 MM, the base numbering is tiered. The final 10 cards in the base set are numbered to only /99 and are actually more valuable than the colored parallels, aside from the 1/1 red spectrum. In an ironic twist, set collectors created a premium for the standard base cards.

[DynaEtch]

On the manufactured scarcity note…. it can be a whole discussion itself (beyond the scope of this thread really). Orions post about the MM16 red spectrums shows there is no doubt that manufactured scarcity can go for big amounts, and those MM16 reds probably won’t be getting a lot cheaper anytime soon. Similar for 2013 Marvel retro PMG greens etc.

There is some organic interest associated with those…first PMGs in marvel, MM16 being Jusko and a legendary set, the Red Spectrums becoming a thing of their own, etc. When it’s stuff like Chrome, or say Marvel mint, it’s largely Topps churning out sets with some generic card with an image taken from comics, and stamping it a “1/1” or “5/10”….ehh. In these cases it’s more like the manufactured scarcity is the only thing the card has going for it. And when you combine that with the utter sea of manufactured scarcity…how many /25s, /50s, /99s etc in the past many years from Topps back to UD…Im just not sure how the far future looks at that. We’ve already seen some drastically reduced prices in modern marvel parallels from Covid peak. I wonder what it’ll be 30+ years later, if we have 30 more years of /25, /50, /99 parallels in many sets each year, and how spread thin the niche hobby is.

I dunno, hard to say. I get the role of manufactured scarcity…it just helps to have something else driving the demand. If you look at current Leaf products, you see a company really trying to do that manufactured scarcity thing…but at the end of the day, I don’t think the hobby cares that much whether its the /3 or /5 or /7 parallel of the same auto (I wouldn’t). Not even getting into how many different 1/1s there are, etc.

I think more organic arising value has good track record: think 52 Mantles, Amazing Fantasy #15s, any vintage sealed wax (which certainly didn’t originate from manufactured scarcity). For me..it’s stuff like 1996 Marvel Masterpieces, and 90s marvel rarities in the uncut sheets, hard to find promos, sell sheets, error cards, etc- not really manufactured scarcity but holds people’s interest 30 years out.

Manufactured scarcity does have a role..heck I’m going all in with 92 Platinum and that’s basically the 92MM set just manufacture scarcity’ed. I look at that as singular instance of redoing the classic 92MM set. Stands out. Chrome/limited take on it. The art makes it iconic. The one-time helps it. If more rehashes of the same set happen…then things get a little more diluted.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I get your point, but actually, in the case of 2016 MM, the base numbering is tiered. The final 10 cards in the base set are numbered to only /99 and are actually more valuable than the colored parallels, aside from the 1/1 red spectrum. In an ironic twist, set collectors created a premium for the standard base cards.

I always thought that was kinda funny. The /99 tier 4 base outselling the /99 legendary orange by quite a bit, and even /49 blues in the latest MM Grego set. But it makes total sense, in light of the set collectors who just want to make a good ol fashioned base set. (I’m one of those, and seeking out only the base tier 4s).

[Scottish Punk]

Thanks for the education guys. I am not that tuned in with the Marvel market like sports or Star Wars/Star Trek. The massive amounts of 1/1s is pretty typical in the sports card world. Modern sports cards are all about chrome numbered parallels, patches, autos. Topps is using the same playbook here. I think a lot of is catered toward breakers. Makes the experience better when you are constantly getting "hits".

A lot of collectors don't take the time to think about how much the "hit" is actually worth in relation to what the break/box costs.

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

I always thought that was kinda funny. The /99 tier 4 base outselling the /99 legendary orange by quite a bit, and even /49 blues in the latest MM Grego set. But it makes total sense, in light of the set collectors who just want to make a good ol fashioned base set. (I’m one of those, and seeking out only the base tier 4s).

I'll never forget opening 2016 Marvel Masterpieces at an LCS in early 2017 and wondering what the heck I paid for before the guy working was like "well, at least that What If Venom #86 24/50 will cover the cost of the box". And he was right!

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I get your point, but actually, in the case of 2016 MM, the base numbering is tiered. The final 10 cards in the base set are numbered to only /99 and are actually more valuable than the colored parallels, aside from the 1/1 red spectrum. In an ironic twist, set collectors created a premium for the standard base cards.

I know how MM works, specifically 16MM, as I opened pallets

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

On the manufactured scarcity note…. it can be a whole discussion itself (beyond the scope of this thread really). Orions post about the MM16 red spectrums shows there is no doubt that manufactured scarcity can go for big amounts, and those MM16 reds probably won’t be getting a lot cheaper anytime soon. Similar for 2013 Marvel retro PMG greens etc.

There is some organic interest associated with those…first PMGs in marvel, MM16 being Jusko and a legendary set, the Red Spectrums becoming a thing of their own, etc. When it’s stuff like Chrome, or say Marvel mint, it’s largely Topps churning out sets with some generic card with an image taken from comics, and stamping it a “1/1” or “5/10”….ehh. In these cases it’s more like the manufactured scarcity is the only thing the card has going for it. And when you combine that with the utter sea of manufactured scarcity…how many /25s, /50s, /99s etc in the past many years from Topps back to UD…Im just not sure how the far future looks at that. We’ve already seen some drastically reduced prices in modern marvel parallels from Covid peak. I wonder what it’ll be 30+ years later, if we have 30 more years of /25, /50, /99 parallels in many sets each year, and how spread thin the niche hobby is.

I dunno, hard to say. I get the role of manufactured scarcity…it just helps to have something else driving the demand. If you look at current Leaf products, you see a company really trying to do that manufactured scarcity thing…but at the end of the day, I don’t think the hobby cares that much whether its the /3 or /5 or /7 parallel of the same auto (I wouldn’t). Not even getting into how many different 1/1s there are, etc.

I think more organic arising value has good track record: think 52 Mantles, Amazing Fantasy #15s, any vintage sealed wax (which certainly didn’t originate from manufactured scarcity). For me..it’s stuff like 1996 Marvel Masterpieces, and 90s marvel rarities in the uncut sheets, hard to find promos, sell sheets, error cards, etc- not really manufactured scarcity but holds people’s interest 30 years out.

Manufactured scarcity does have a role..heck I’m going all in with 92 Platinum and that’s basically the 92MM set just manufacture scarcity’ed. I look at that as singular instance of redoing the classic 92MM set. Stands out. Chrome/limited take on it. The art makes it iconic. The one-time helps it. If more rehashes of the same set happen…then things get a little more diluted.

Perfectly said. With sets like MM there is interest, even in the plain old base, due to the artist on the set and just the fact that it's MM.

In the end though, manufactured scarcity still plays a roll in the ICONIC sets value. If the base were unnumbered, they'd be worth what the golds are worth. Quick look on COMC, literally 2 seconds looking at the first few listed, seems base /1999 are worth about 2x random gold base. Same image.

Obviously the red 1/1's were an extreme way to make a point, but it was made. All companies do this . But I think you made a equally important point about the value being organic vs totally hinging upon manufactured scarcity. MM has organic value, even in something unnumbered, vs modern Topps MOSTLY depending upon manufactured scarcity to have ANY value.

[TheRock88]

EQL is up.

$300 a box
$3000 a case

[FromNBAtoNFL]

So expensive, and on that other big store it costs $6,878 for a case.
What a gross store they've become, AM I RIGHT? Yea I think so.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

I'll never forget opening 2016 Marvel Masterpieces at an LCS in early 2017 and wondering what the heck I paid for before the guy working was like "well, at least that What If Venom #86 24/50 will cover the cost of the box". And he was right!

I was never lucky enough to pull a tier 4 what if Man…to go back to those great days of busting MM16…also a fresh new thing on ePack….one of my favorite times in the hobby in terms of nostalgia.

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

Thanks for the education guys. I am not that tuned in with the Marvel market like sports or Star Wars/Star Trek. The massive amounts of 1/1s is pretty typical in the sports card world. Modern sports cards are all about chrome numbered parallels, patches, autos. Topps is using the same playbook here. I think a lot of is catered toward breakers. Makes the experience better when you are constantly getting "hits".

A lot of collectors don't take the time to think about how much the "hit" is actually worth in relation to what the break/box costs.

Agree- I think Marvel cards as a hobby is essentially becoming “sports-ified” now. It actually started with UD with the tons of parallels as hits and even some straight up importing of inserts from sports like PMG, EX-century, etc…but it’s in full sports mode now with Topps, the breakers, the parallels, the gambling/flipping etc. At least UD put out some stellar sets, OA sets, etc.

Originally Posted by orion9578

Perfectly said. With sets like MM there is interest, even in the plain old base, due to the artist on the set and just the fact that it's MM.

In the end though, manufactured scarcity still plays a roll in the ICONIC sets value. If the base were unnumbered, they'd be worth what the golds are worth. Quick look on COMC, literally 2 seconds looking at the first few listed, seems base /1999 are worth about 2x random gold base. Same image.



Obviously the red 1/1's were an extreme way to make a point, but it was made. All companies do this . But I think you made a equally important point about the value being organic vs totally hinging upon manufactured scarcity. MM has organic value, even in something unnumbered, vs modern Topps MOSTLY depending upon manufactured scarcity to have ANY value.

Yep I think you nailed it on the head. Manufactured scarcity has an important role In the hobby and does mean a lot when there is good interest in the set. It certainly has value and it’s more or less organic for the well-liked, heavily collected, iconic sets etc.

To give an extreme example of where manufactured wouldn’t work, as a hypothetical. I could come out with some silly set…”DynaEtch’s Knick Knacks” or whatever…stamp some 1/1 or 1/5….”well there’s only 5!”, etc…and it’s worth diddly squat lol. It can’t just be manufactured scarcity…it also has to mean something.

[BoSoxFan1999]

I can't even log into my EQL account.

[crdbored]

Odds up. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...f?v=1755031522

Quick glance. There are approx. 15,701 total boxes (1 stan lee cut) which means approx. 1,570 cases.

The SDCC exclusive had approx. 1,560 boxes (1 doom SDCC super) so approx. 156 cases.

[Brobocop]

Breaking my own rule, but I'll enter these since boxes seem to be going for well over what the EQL price is. Why are they going for so much, no idea.