Dee Gordon Suspended 80 Games

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

I don't see any benefit for him to lie about it.

Really? Provides an excuse for the suspension? Gets his name back in circulation?

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by speedyjg13

Dee Gordon says he got suspended because he was told not to beat out Bryce Harper for the batting title in 2015, which would have given him the triple crown.

Dee suspended in 2016.

Thommy was the ultimate Dee Gordon collector and he stopped posting on BO after this happened in 2016. I hope he was okay after all this.

https://youtube.com/shorts/NBJ5EsABO...lPrVtB18djfvqa

I saw this too, but he loses credibility (with me) because Arenado (led the NL in RBIs) didn’t get suspended

[Soxrule111]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

If true, that's damning. I loved Dee Brown. The leadoff HR he hit after Jose Fernandez died is one of my favorite baseball memories. I don't see any benefit for him to lie about it. And nothing shocks me anymore.

One of the best/worst baseball moments. Still brings a tear to me when I watch it knowing the friendship and stuff. Shits real sometimes.

[erock28]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

I saw this too, but he loses credibility (with me) because Arenado (led the NL in RBIs) didn’t get suspended

Not only did Arenado lead the NL, he had 31 MORE than Harper. So there was no way, no shape, no chance Harper could've gotten the Triple Crown. Makes Gordon's story totally unbelievable.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

If true, that's damning. I loved Dee Brown. The leadoff HR he hit after Jose Fernandez died is one of my favorite baseball memories. I don't see any benefit for him to lie about it. And nothing shocks me anymore.

Maybe because he’s a lying attention whore given how easily you can disprove his story.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Maybe because he’s a lying attention whore given how easily you can disprove his story.

I guess anything's possible. That pretty much describes every "influencer". Maybe he has a book coming our or something lol.

[Rooftop]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

If true, that's damning. I loved Dee Brown. The leadoff HR he hit after Jose Fernandez died is one of my favorite baseball memories. I don't see any benefit for him to lie about it. And nothing shocks me anymore.

Dee Brown played basketball.

[ddearing]

Originally Posted by Rooftop

Dee Brown played basketball.

He did. And went to the same high school as Chipper Jones and Mac Jones.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Hmm… who was the Marlins hitting coach in 2016?

Oh my goodness -- haha.

Here are the facts:

Dee Gordon said he tested positive during spring training:

he told his teammates that he tested positive in spring training for PEDs, synthetic testosterone and clostebol, to be exact, and had decided to drop his appeal.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...lins/83700248/

He was coming off a career year at the plate in 2015, before Bonds joined the team:

.333/.359/.418, .776 OPS, 116 wRC+, 4.8 fWAR

All career highs -- never once did he get close to reaching those numbers again.

One could surmise that PEDs made Gordon a more consistent and productive hitter in 2015.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Oh my goodness -- haha.

Here are the facts:

Dee Gordon said he tested positive during spring training:


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...lins/83700248/

He was coming off a career year at the plate in 2015, before Bonds joined the team:

.333/.359/.418, .776 OPS, 116 wRC+, 4.8 fWAR

All career highs -- never once did he get close to reaching those numbers again.

One could surmise that PEDs made Gordon a more consistent and productive hitter in 2015.

or......he had a .383 BABIP, easily a career high and PEDs didn't do a thing.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

or......he had a .383 BABIP, easily a career high and PEDs didn't do a thing.

It may just be a coincidence, but it was his best season and it immediately preceded his PED suspension. Higher BABIP is not just the result of good luck -- it's about quality of contact. Gordon's quality of contact that season was the best of the Statcast era -- highest EV, xBA, xSLG.

The type of PEDs he allegedly took gives athletes more stamina and energy -- it could help turn a good .290 hitter into a great .330 hitter.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

It may just be a coincidence, but it was his best season and it immediately preceded his PED suspension. Higher BABIP is not just the result of good luck -- it's about quality of contact. Gordon's quality of contact that season was the best of the Statcast era -- highest EV, xBA, xSLG.

The type of PEDs he allegedly took gives athletes more stamina and energy -- it could help turn a good .290 hitter into a great .330 hitter.

His hard hit percentage of 17.6% was basically in line with his career 17.1%

expected numbers really don't matter, just physical results. You are leaving out statcast doesn't cover his whole career and for the years provided, he had a season at 84.2 for exit velo (it was 84.4 in 15), and 83.1 for his career, not a huge jump really.

It's the BABIP, he got slightly lucky and was a tick better with hard contact.

Hitting a Baseball is the hardest thing in pro sports to do in my opinion. A PED isn't helping you with that.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

His hard hit percentage of 17.6% was basically in line with his career 17.1%

expected numbers really don't matter, just physical results. You are leaving out statcast doesn't cover his whole career and for the years provided, he had a season at 84.2 for exit velo (it was 84.4 in 15), and 83.1 for his career, not a huge jump really.

It's the BABIP, he got slightly lucky and was a tick better with hard contact.

Hitting a Baseball is the hardest thing in pro sports to do in my opinion. A PED isn't helping you with that.

So having more stamina and energy during a long, grueling season doesn't help batters be more consistent?

His first full season was in 2014 -- his prior seasons were as a part-time player. The hard-hit rate you're referencing is from an outdated system that used human observers.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

So having more stamina and energy during a long, grueling season doesn't help batters be more consistent?

His first full season was in 2014 -- his prior seasons were as a part-time player. The hard-hit rate you're referencing is from an outdated system that used human observers.

Did he have more stamina and energy? I stated exit velo's, there isn't a massive jump, and he had a exit velo in 2019 virtually the same as 2015 (84.2 vs 84.4). 2019 he hit .275/.304/ with a 77 wRC+ and a .313 BABIP.

He got lucky in 2015.

[fabiani12333]

Ryan Braun also got busted for using synthetic testosterone during his 2011 MVP season. And just like Gordon, he was in his age 27 season. And also like Gordon, he had a career year at the plate -- highs in batting average and wRC+.

Having more stamina and energy makes an athlete more consistent and productive.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Ryan Braun also got busted for using synthetic testosterone during his 2011 MVP season. And just like Gordon, he was in his age 27 season. And also like Gordon, he had a career year at the plate -- highs in batting average and wRC+.

Having more stamina and energy makes an athlete more consistent and productive.

I am supplying numbers and you're here supplying nothing of much substance really. PEDs doesn't make you hit the Baseball.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Did he have more stamina and energy? I stated exit velo's, there isn't a massive jump, and he had a exit velo in 2019 virtually the same as 2015 (84.2 vs 84.4). 2019 he hit .275/.304/ with a 77 wRC+ and a .313 BABIP.

He got lucky in 2015.

Well, there is no way to prove it, one way or the other.

But there is a reason why PEDs are used -- they help boost performance.

It's unlikely Gordon decided to start using PEDs prior to the 2016 season. My guess is he used them in 2015 and thought they helped him boost his performance -- he became dependent on them and thought he needed them to play at a higher level.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

I am supplying numbers and you're here supplying nothing of much substance really. PEDs doesn't make you hit the Baseball.

Yes, they of course do. Studies have shown that PEDs improve focus, reaction time, bat speed, etc.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Well, there is no way to prove it, one way or the other.

But there is a reason why PEDs are used -- they help boost performance.

It's unlikely Gordon decided to start using PEDs prior to the 2016 season. My guess is he used them in 2015 and thought they helped him boost his performance -- he became dependent on them and thought he needed them to play at a higher level.

So let's use his exit velo which you said was important, correct? 84.4 in 2015, 84.2 in 2019, that is virtually the same, no?

Explain to me why he hit the way he did in 2015 but with the same exit velo was almost 30% below league average in 2019. If you can't, then you are confirming he was simply lucky with a sky high BABIP in 2015.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

So let's use his exit velo which you said was important, correct? 84.4 in 2015, 84.2 in 2019, that is virtually the same, no?

Explain to me why he hit the way he did in 2015 but with the same exit velo was almost 30% below league average in 2019. If you can't, then you are confirming he was simply lucky with a sky high BABIP in 2015.

His xBA in 2019 was .250 vs .267 in 2015. His xSLG was .310 in 2019 vs .340 in 2015. His max exit velocity was 102.5 in 2019 vs 106.9 in 2015.

He was a better hitter in 2015. This can't be disputed. And his numbers dramatically dropped off in 2016 after he got busted.

As I said, there is no way to prove it, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to indicate he was using PEDs in 2015.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

His xBA in 2019 was .250 vs .267 in 2015. His xSLG was .310 in 2019 vs .340 in 2015. His max exit velocity was 102.5 in 2019 vs 106.9 in 2015.

He was a better hitter in 2015. This can't be disputed. And his numbers dramatically dropped off in 2016 after he got busted.

As I said, there is no way to prove it, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to indicate he was using PEDs in 2015.

expected and reality are two different things. Don't see us agreeing, for me it's a simple case of luck.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

expected and reality are two different things. Don't see us agreeing, for me it's a simple case of luck.

Yes, it can be both luck and PEDs. I'm guessing it was.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

expected and reality are two different things. Don't see us agreeing, for me it's a simple case of luck.

So you have no problem assuming higher BABIP equals luck, but you aren't willing to consider other factors that expected stats take into account that help explain the on-field numbers? That seems very contradictory.

Mathematically, there is no such thing as being lucky over a 162 game season. Law of averages says it would even out over that sample size.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

So you have no problem assuming higher BABIP equals luck, but you aren't willing to consider other factors that expected stats take into account that help explain the on-field numbers? That seems very contradictory.

Mathematically, there is no such thing as being lucky over a 162 game season. Law of averages says it would even out over that sample size.

It's not that a high BABIP automatically equals luck, often times it relates to a guy who is fast (like Dee in that case) or guys who make really hard contact all the time (Miguel Cabrera constantly had high BABIPs from that). However look at Gordon's season by season BABIP and yes, I'm willing to just say luck.

What else do you equate an abnormally high BABIP too (in this case Gordon's 2015 was 50 points higher than his career BABIP) and his next highest season was 30 points lower than 2015's.

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Hmm… who was the Marlins hitting coach in 2016?