Observations on the current state of the hobby from a show this weekend

[backtothe50s]

Im seeing alot of topps series 2 baseball being left on the shelf!

[theshowandme]

2021 Topps Walmart Blaster

Retail can be fun

[boxbuster7]

did you ever meet them?

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Cavs16

You read my mine....pretty amazing indeed

Don’t forget about Veefriends!

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Again, this comparison only makes sense if the cost of the box is the same. You are arguing with a stacked deck if you tell me that a single Heritage blaster has less value than a single Heritage hobby box. Of course it does.

What I meant was the same amount of $$$ spent on each format....sorry I didn't make myself clearer.....

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I can definitely understand your perspective. I wasn't responding to that part. My comment was strictly about retail and the value it provides.

I only fly first class because I hate lines and cramped seats. I want the ticket that allows me to go to the front of the bag line, the front of the security line, the private lounge, and the big seat. There is absolutely no monetary value in that ticket. It's an overpriced luxury but the experience is worth it to me.

A lot of people feel that way about cards too. They just want the thrill of ripping into NT and pulling some six-figure logoman or whatever the chase is and don't care if the value is there. It's really hard to capture value and odds at the exact time. Play the value game, or play the odds game, but those are two very different games depending on what you're after.

This is very true.

Many people (at least those who can afford to) spend money on things that objectively do not offer good "value".

And everyone is also extremely inconsistent about when and where they care about value. My wife always laughs at the fact that I absolutely HATE to pay for parking (because I grew up in a place where street parking was always free), but then will not hesitate to "waste" that same money on an overpriced drink or dessert when we go out to eat. I check out books from the library instead of buying them, because I think most new books are overpriced, and rotate streaming services so that we're never paying for more than one at a time (which saves us a whopping $10-20 a month), and rarely go see movies at the theater (since I think the tickets are overpriced), but don't hesitate to overspend for non-stop flights in order to avoid the stress of making a connection.

Bottom line....everyone values different experiences/items differently.....and rarely are they logical....

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I only fly first class because I hate lines and cramped seats. I want the ticket that allows me to go to the front of the bag line, the front of the security line, the private lounge, and the big seat. There is absolutely no monetary value in that ticket. It's an overpriced luxury but the experience is worth it to me.

This is funny because I literally just changed my opinion on flying. I always told my wife no matter how much money we earned I wouldn't spend it on expensive seats because we all go to the same place in the same amount of time.

Fast forward to last month when we were heading to Europe to do a 16 day cruise in Norway. We had already bought our "regular seats" with Delta but got a really cheap upgrade option for Delta One. Since it was cheap we jumped on the upgrade and I had my first experience flying overnight in lay flat seats. Holy freaking cow. I can't go back now. Call me a princess, but me that was amazing. And not only that, but it completely changes the start of your vacation as well. I used to be stiff and exhausted so the the start of a trip was always rough after those cramped economy seats. Game changer for sure. I shall now be upgrading any time I can get the good seats for less than stupid prices.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by backtothe50s

Im seeing alot of topps series 2 baseball being left on the shelf!

Assuming you are referring to retail? Hobby and Jumbos have been getting snatched up and prices are starting to show. Big changes upwards lately and less and less available.

[backtothe50s]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Assuming you are referring to retail? Hobby and Jumbos have been getting snatched up and prices are starting to show. Big changes upwards lately and less and less available.

Yes,retail as I saw these on the shelfs at Target.

[dodgerfanjohn]

Originally Posted by backtothe50s

Yes,retail as I saw these on the shelfs at Target.

Went to Target last night in suburb of Los Angeles. Lots of Series 2 in all retail formats as well as Topps Basketball Chrome and lots of other basketball. Normally all the Targets by me are devoid of card product. Of course this is the Target where I was able to buy limitless amounts of 2018 and 2019 Topps Chrome Update (until I opened my big mouth on this forum about it and subsequently it was cleared of all of that product in 2019 in less than a day).

[mfw13]

So....went to the first "big" show that the Puget Sound region has had in the 25 years I've lived here, a 400-table "mixed" show promoted by Front Row at the Tacoma Convention Center. About 60% of the tables were Pokeman/Magic, etc, and the other 40% were sports.

Crowd seemed to be about 65-70% Pokemon.....the Pokemon tables were packed, while the sports card tables had plenty of room. Sports card tables were either filled with slabs or filled with ungraded vintage....not much in between. The overall vibe at the sports card tables was mainly collectors trying to sell stuff to the (many) dealers who were buying. Didn't see a whole lot of selling from dealers to collectors.

Stayed for about two hours, didn't find a single card on any of my wantlists (most Topps Heritage & TCPA stuff and HOFer autos) spent $5, and went home.

I don't know how others feel about this, but having the sports card and Pokemon tables mixed together was really not great.....would have been much better if the promoter had put the sports card tables on one side of the room, and the Pokemon tables on the other side, since it was often hard to get at the sports card tables due to them being blocked by the crowds around the Pokemon tables.

[corockies]

Originally Posted by mfw13

So....went to the first "big" show that the Puget Sound region has had in the 25 years I've lived here, a 400-table "mixed" show promoted by Front Row at the Tacoma Convention Center. About 60% of the tables were Pokeman/Magic, etc, and the other 40% were sports.

Crowd seemed to be about 65-70% Pokemon.....the Pokemon tables were packed, while the sports card tables had plenty of room. Sports card tables were either filled with slabs or filled with ungraded....not much in between. The overall vibe at the sports card tables was mainly collectors trying to sell stuff to the (many) dealers who were buying. Didn't see a whole lot of selling from dealers to collectors.

Stayed for about two hours, didn't find a single card on any of my wantlists (most Topps Heritage & TCPA stuff and HOFer autos) spent $5, and went home.

I don't know how others feel about this, but having the sports card and Pokemon tables mixed together was really not great.....would have been much better if the promoter had put the sports card tables on one side of the room, and the Pokemon tables on the other side, since it was often hard to get at the sports card tables due to them being blocked by the crowds around the Pokemon tables.

I talked to the promoter of the big Denver show and asked him specifically about putting sports cards vendors together and pokemon card vendors together in sections for ease of access. He told me he likes the flea market aspect of it - you get some of everything every row you walk down. I told him I disagree and my thought was keeping same sellers grouped together would create a better environment for what everyone is exactly focused on. I believe my input fell on deaf ears.

Maybe it's just me but I find a majority of the Pokemon crowd ignorant to their surroundings - wearing giant backpacks and having their large bodies block 3/4 of the aisle because they are oblivious of anything going on around them. I'm a big guy at 6'3" 240 lbs and I'm constantly making myself as small as possible to allow for people to get past me.

[mfw13]

I'll add one other comment to what I said above......it's seems like a lot of the so-called "dealers" setting up at shows are really just people trying to sell unwanted stuff from their PC's and/or professional flippers. Their showcases are completely disorganized and they have very little idea what's in their inventory. It was very easy to tell the long-time dealers from the newbies.

[msink28]

Conceptually I would have agreed with you until I took my son to a show. He just wanted to look at Pokemon. We were under a bit of a time crunch, so I wouldn't have been able to look at sports cards at all if they had been split up. But I could let him be at an adjacent table while I half looked at sports cards and half kept my eye on him. I suspect a fair number of parents are in my boat.

I agree that people are bringing entirely too much crap to these shows though, sports and non-sports alike.

Originally Posted by corockies

I talked to the promoter of the big Denver show and asked him specifically about putting sports cards vendors together and pokemon card vendors together in sections for ease of access. He told me he likes the flea market aspect of it - you get some of everything every row you walk down. I told him I disagree and my thought was keeping same sellers grouped together would create a better environment for what everyone is exactly focused on. I believe my input fell on deaf ears.

Maybe it's just me but I find a majority of the Pokemon crowd ignorant to their surroundings - wearing giant backpacks and having their large bodies block 3/4 of the aisle because they are oblivious of anything going on around them. I'm a big guy at 6'3" 240 lbs and I'm constantly making myself as small as possible to allow for people to get past me.

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by mfw13

So....went to the first "big" show that the Puget Sound region has had in the 25 years I've lived here, a 400-table "mixed" show promoted by Front Row at the Tacoma Convention Center. About 60% of the tables were Pokeman/Magic, etc, and the other 40% were sports.

Crowd seemed to be about 65-70% Pokemon.....the Pokemon tables were packed, while the sports card tables had plenty of room. Sports card tables were either filled with slabs or filled with ungraded vintage....not much in between. The overall vibe at the sports card tables was mainly collectors trying to sell stuff to the (many) dealers who were buying. Didn't see a whole lot of selling from dealers to collectors.

Stayed for about two hours, didn't find a single card on any of my wantlists (most Topps Heritage & TCPA stuff and HOFer autos) spent $5, and went home.

I don't know how others feel about this, but having the sports card and Pokemon tables mixed together was really not great.....would have been much better if the promoter had put the sports card tables on one side of the room, and the Pokemon tables on the other side, since it was often hard to get at the sports card tables due to them being blocked by the crowds around the Pokemon tables.

That show is down here next week, it's nice to know I can skip it.

[armyml]

Originally Posted by corockies

I talked to the promoter of the big Denver show and asked him specifically about putting sports cards vendors together and pokemon card vendors together in sections for ease of access. He told me he likes the flea market aspect of it - you get some of everything every row you walk down. I told him I disagree and my thought was keeping same sellers grouped together would create a better environment for what everyone is exactly focused on. I believe my input fell on deaf ears.

Maybe it's just me but I find a majority of the Pokemon crowd ignorant to their surroundings - wearing giant backpacks and having their large bodies block 3/4 of the aisle because they are oblivious of anything going on around them. I'm a big guy at 6'3" 240 lbs and I'm constantly making myself as small as possible to allow for people to get past me.

If the people are more skewed towards Pokemon/Magic like everyone is saying about these shows then it makes sense for the organizer to want everything mixed up. Putting Pokemon on one side and sports on the other would create some sort of weird middle school dance scenario where the people are divided into 2 sections not interacting with each other. I could see the Sports vendors not liking that too much as they watch all the business occur on the Pokemon side of the building.

Also don't discount the sports guys walking around with big backpacks and those dumb lock boxes/pelican cases there are just as many as those guys as there are Pokemon backpacks. At least if a kid shows up at my table with a Pokemon backpack there's probably some heat in there. As opposed to the sports guy who opens up his lockbox to try to sell me Lamelo Ball and Wemby slabs.

[Twalk1975]

Originally Posted by mfw13

So....went to the first "big" show that the Puget Sound region has had in the 25 years I've lived here, a 400-table "mixed" show promoted by Front Row at the Tacoma Convention Center. About 60% of the tables were Pokeman/Magic, etc, and the other 40% were sports.

Crowd seemed to be about 65-70% Pokemon.....the Pokemon tables were packed, while the sports card tables had plenty of room. Sports card tables were either filled with slabs or filled with ungraded vintage....not much in between. The overall vibe at the sports card tables was mainly collectors trying to sell stuff to the (many) dealers who were buying. Didn't see a whole lot of selling from dealers to collectors.

Stayed for about two hours, didn't find a single card on any of my wantlists (most Topps Heritage & TCPA stuff and HOFer autos) spent $5, and went home.

I don't know how others feel about this, but having the sports card and Pokemon tables mixed together was really not great.....would have been much better if the promoter had put the sports card tables on one side of the room, and the Pokemon tables on the other side, since it was often hard to get at the sports card tables due to them being blocked by the crowds around the Pokemon tables.

I've been to the Front Row show in Phoenix a few times, and it's probably my least favorite show just because it seems to be a general collectibles thing. Front Row is pretty close to where I live, but I'd rather go to a 75 table sports card show on the other side of town. If I remember correctly, Front Row also has the highest admission fee of any of the shows in Phoenix.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by msink28

Conceptually I would have agreed with you until I took my son to a show. He just wanted to look at Pokemon. We were under a bit of a time crunch, so I wouldn't have been able to look at sports cards at all if they had been split up. But I could let him be at an adjacent table while I half looked at sports cards and half kept my eye on him. I suspect a fair number of parents are in my boat.

That's a good point.

As someone who does not have kids, the fact that parents may be collecting sports cards while their kids may are collecting TCG did not occur to me.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by armyml

If the people are more skewed towards Pokemon/Magic like everyone is saying about these shows then it makes sense for the organizer to want everything mixed up. Putting Pokemon on one side and sports on the other would create some sort of weird middle school dance scenario where the people are divided into 2 sections not interacting with each other. I could see the Sports vendors not liking that too much as they watch all the business occur on the Pokemon side of the building.

Also don't discount the sports guys walking around with big backpacks and those dumb lock boxes/pelican cases there are just as many as those guys as there are Pokemon backpacks. At least if a kid shows up at my table with a Pokemon backpack there's probably some heat in there. As opposed to the sports guy who opens up his lockbox to try to sell me Lamelo Ball and Wemby slabs.

It felt like many of the sports cards tables were not actually dealers, but just guys setting up to buy, with the only cards in their showcases being ones that they had already bought that morning.

I mean, I talked to one guy who didn't even know what Topps Heritage was....

[NYBBFAN]

Originally Posted by mfw13

It felt like many of the sports cards tables were not actually dealers, but just guys setting up to buy, with the only cards in their showcases being ones that they had already bought that morning.

I mean, I talked to one guy who didn't even know what Topps Heritage was....

It’s really tough to find good Topps Heritage cards at shows. There was a dude with a small spot at a table at last year’s National. He had a 2009 Heritage Griffey black refractor. I was talking to him about it and told him about the High Number set that has Griffey on the White Sox. Dude had no idea about Heritage sets, and had no idea Griffey played for the White Sox. I was so disappointed.

[jkampis]

It doesn’t make sense from the promoter/dealer side to separate sports from Pokemon because the current way leads visitors to explore the entire room.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by jkampis

It doesn’t make sense from the promoter/dealer side to separate sports from Pokemon because the current way leads visitors to explore the entire room.

Bingo! You are intentionally eliminating movement of half your crowd to the other half of the building when you do that. As I promotor, I would think that the goal is to keep people in the building as long as possible and get them to as many tables as possible. Carving out a corner for specific items do not do that. But I've never done it, so what do I know?

[Big35Hurt]

I went to the Madison, WI show about 2-3 weeks ago and the show was spread out between 2 rooms and a decent sized lobby area. The main lobby area was a mix of Pokemon and sports cards while the other two rooms were more or less split into Pokemon in one room and sports cards in the other room. Speaking to the sports card dealers, they were quite happy with this set up and other buyers agreed who overhead the conversations. Let's be real, most people who collect Pokemon don't give a crap about sports cards and vice versa.

[ThoseBackPages]

for years and years people have said to separate Modern and Vintage.
that didnt happen, neither will it with Pokemon and Sportscards

it will be ok, i promise

[tconte]

I went to the Brotherly Love Card show yesterday in South Jersey as it is only
ten minutes from home. The card show transformation continues as there was only one vintage (maybe two if you count 1980's cards) dealer.

I would say it was about 50-60% pokemon or related. The Pokemon was hot!
My son came with me and the stuff he was looking at sold quick. I bought
him a couple $7 packs as he was a trooper patiently watching me sell some
more of my collection off. Plus he put up with some bad b.o. in the room!
Not good on a 90 degree day.

Some of the busiest tables were the ones with the signs saying buying.
I sold most of my last PSA submission to Hennessey's Sport Cards in a very
easy and smooth transaction. They will use my cards for repacks and whatever
else the ultra modern gang does. I've slowly sold off everything from the
ultra modern world. So happy and not looking back. A few more things to
get rid of and it's back to my vintage world for me at a much smaller scale.

This new "hobby" aint for me! Hasta La Vista baby!

Saw one guy selling mystery packs or something like it for $199 and $299.

Pelican cases were everywhere! There looks to be a new version of the peli
in a backpack form that I never noticed before.

Hope everyone enjoys their collections! That's what counts.