What will it take for Joker to be in top 10 conversation?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

I don't think he'll need 3 to pass Hakeem. An MVP and FMVP with another 5 years playing at a high level and I think he passes Hakeem.



I think it was from another thread. The 4 are from this thread.

I think Jokic needs to learn how to play defense to pass Hakeem.

Russell, Wilt, KAJ, Hakeem, Duncan all great defensive big men. I don't see how a one dimensional player ever gets into that group.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by rats60

Bill James top 5 baseball players of all time.

1. Babe Ruth
2. Honus Wagner
3. Willie Mays
4. Oscar Charleston
5. Ty Cobb

Looks like you are just wrong as usual.

Are you surprised?

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by rats60

Bill James top 5 baseball players of all time.

1. Babe Ruth
2. Honus Wagner
3. Willie Mays
4. Oscar Charleston
5. Ty Cobb

Looks like you are just wrong as usual.

Have you looked at his Historical Baseball Abstract? (The above is his ranking as of the '01 Abstract update.) Man's a legend of baseball research

FTR my top 6 roughly are Ruth Charleston Mays Bonds(-thru-'98) Pujols Trout, so what does that make me

Originally Posted by rats60

I think Jokic needs to learn how to play defense to pass Hakeem.

Russell, Wilt, KAJ, Hakeem, Duncan all great defensive big men. I don't see how a one dimensional player ever gets into that group.

uh, winning championships?

true 'nuff, neither Jokic nor Hakeem have proven themselves against MJ (and of course neither did Faceplant Malone)

(as what-ifs go, I sure relish the MJ-Hakeem '94+'95 Finals)

[Orangejello727]

Most of you are awkward. You guys value a voted award by media that is influenced by sponsorship and advertising dollars than you actually value stats and play on court.

AS appearances?
MVP?
FMVP?
All NBA.

All voted by people who dont even play the game. Figures this isn't basketball. Its a popularity contest. We should add number one IG followers as a stat for GOAT too

Any chance Jokic can land a DPLOY??

[pingbling23]

Don’t listen to oj, he’s sour Kobe didn’t get more mvps. Joker is an amazing player but he has a long way to go to be top 10. He’s possibly near there from skill alone but top 10 career is hard to get. I’m also in the camp that would love to see him battle against the greater centers we all love. He definitely has the perimeter game but in the post I think they would make him look silly.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by rats60

I think Jokic needs to learn how to play defense to pass Hakeem.

Russell, Wilt, KAJ, Hakeem, Duncan all great defensive big men. I don't see how a one dimensional player ever gets into that group.

I notice one major thing wrong with the way people compare these newer stars against the older stars, they never factor in that guys like Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Akeem and Duncan, all actually would have far better numbers (except Wilt) in the modern game put in similar roles.

Better training etc
Better PEDs.
Better conditions

Hell Andre Drummond was churning out triple doubles not that long ago when the Pistons went through him.

I would love to see the likes of Akeem and Duncan in their prime playing curently.

Along with other talented guys like T-Mac, Kobe etc
Shaq

It would be fascinating.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

Don’t listen to oj, he’s sour Kobe didn’t get more mvps. Joker is an amazing player but he has a long way to go to be top 10. He’s possibly near there from skill alone but top 10 career is hard to get. I’m also in the camp that would love to see him battle against the greater centers we all love. He definitely has the perimeter game but in the post I think they would make him look silly.

lol, why?

Gobert is on the cusp of a 4th DPOY, which would be tied for most all-time. He's an all-time great defensive player and he's never been able to stop Jokic. Hell if Gobert played back in Russell's time he'd probably have been even better without teams trying to drag him out to the perimeter.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by daeve

lol, why?

Gobert is on the cusp of a 4th DPOY, which would be tied for most all-time. He's an all-time great defensive player and he's never been able to stop Jokic. Hell if Gobert played back in Russell's time he'd probably have been even better without teams trying to drag him out to the perimeter.

Gobert just isn't that good. He's overrated defensively no matter what the DPOYs say.

Bill Russell, Hakeem, even KG were much better defensive players and had the well rounded defensive games to be able to slow down Jokic much more than Rudy

[oldgoldy97]

Hot take: Russell was good because everyone else stunk.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Gobert just isn't that good. He's overrated defensively no matter what the DPOYs say.

Bill Russell, Hakeem, even KG were much better defensive players and had the well rounded defensive games to be able to slow down Jokic much more than Rudy

Maybe KG in his 2-3 peak strength years. Wasn't he about the same size as AD? [who also gets eaten alive by Joker]

It'll be interesting to see what Wemby can do once he gets stronger.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Hot take: Russell was good because everyone else stunk.

That's a hot take? People had multiple jobs when he came into the league

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

I notice one major thing wrong with the way people compare these newer stars against the older stars, they never factor in that guys like Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Akeem and Duncan, all actually would have far better numbers (except Wilt) in the modern game put in similar roles.

Better training etc
Better PEDs.
Better conditions

Hell Andre Drummond was churning out triple doubles not that long ago when the Pistons went through him.

I would love to see the likes of Akeem and Duncan in their prime playing curently.

Along with other talented guys like T-Mac, Kobe etc
Shaq

It would be fascinating.

I think everyone would love to see it, since the level of talent they faced was lower than the one current stars face today.

No, not the top 3-5 guys in each position, but the bench and rotation players (and fringe starters).

[jcardstore]

I think it’s appropriate to bump this

[Asian62150]

If Joker leads the Nuggets back in this series and they go on to win Back2Back, that will go a long way towards getting him Top 10 status.

[EBCollectibles]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I think it’s appropriate to bump this

Where is your hero Lebron as we speak. Sitting in Cancun think of you.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by EBCollectibles

Where is your hero Lebron as we speak. Sitting in Cancun think of you.

You need serious mental help

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I think it’s appropriate to bump this

He can get swept and the thread can still be relevant

[daeve]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

He can get swept and the thread can still be relevant

Yeah... so if he doesn't win 3/4 MVPs and 2 rings in a 4-year stretch, is he automatically not top 10 material? 🤔

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

He can get swept and the thread can still be relevant

Not relevant in the top 10 discussion yet if the wolves end their season

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by daeve

Yeah... so if he doesn't win 3/4 MVPs and 2 rings in a 4-year stretch, is he automatically not top 10 material? 🤔

Correct.

Not in the discussion until another ring at absolute minimum

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Not relevant in the top 10 discussion yet if the wolves end their season

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Correct.

Not in the discussion until another ring at absolute minimum

I think we all agree on that.

I won't say his window is closing if they don't win but it's gonna get tougher. Just look at Giannis.

[GOATcards]

from the (big) '24 playoffs thread

Originally Posted by jcardstore

And to think that people on here were already crowning Jokic top10 all time and guaranteeing he win a ring this season

Oops

documentation on someone guaranteeing he'd get a ring this season would be hilarious, thanks in advance

I think the only "guarantee" anyone made is that if he does win a ring this season, he would be squarely in the top-10 discussion, even if it's merely being tied for 10th in the end. But since times have changed, standards have changed; since MJ didn't need 11+ rings to be the GOAT, Jokic might in the end not even need 2 rings to end up top-10 all-time given the competition levels.

It might depend on how teams like MIN end up looking as they mature and reach peak. If MIN turns out to be a juggernaut, then Jokic doesn't look so weak. If this is just Jokic/DEN failing to high-BBIQ their way out of this kind of situation, then he looks like he "couldn't get it done when the heat was turned up" (blah blah blah etc), somehow all of a sudden. But I know what defense I saw from MIN last night and it looked championship-level and whether or not Jokic is a championship-level team leader, he might just not have championship-level support at this point given the arms race in today's league.

In the 2020 'yoffs, the Nugs went down 3-1 twice before winning series, do they have what it takes to pull out another comeback?

[BGT Masters]

You can’t be in the top ten and not be a great defender. Don’t care if he wins 4 chips.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by BGT Masters

You can’t be in the top ten and not be a great defender. Don’t care if he wins 4 chips.

Only one consensus top 10 player of all time has ever won the DPOY award.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Only one consensus top 10 player of all time has ever won the DPOY award.

To be fair, I think Bill Russell would have won a few if it existed. Probably Kareem too.

I do think it hilarious that people go "Joker can't defend" because he's not great at things most of the big men above him didn't have to do, like keeping up with guards/wings on switches.