Running CGC (old CSG) Order Tracker

[grade]

Just make sure you calculate the cost of resubbing . ( $12 or $15 subs become $17 to $30 subs in reality) .

If you graded last year, you have to resub and pay again for the new label. Also, the grading standards have changed, so you have to resub and pay again to get the current easier grading standards.

CSG is consistent, at changing things.

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by grade

Just make sure you calculate the cost of resubbing . ( $12 or $15 subs become $17 to $30 subs in reality) .

If you graded last year, you have to resub and pay again for the new label. Also, the grading standards have changed, so you have to resub and pay again to get the current easier grading standards.

CSG is consistent, at changing things.

Dude give it a break. CSG announced their label change and offered a fair $5 reholder fee for those interested.

CSG did not change their grading standards. They added a mint+ grade and removed their pristine grade. The standards for a mint grade haven't changed. The standards for a gem mint grade haven't changed. Standards have not changed - if you want to be crabby about something you can say the grading scale changed.

Most people appreciate how quick they made these changes. Some wish they made them quicker. Not many people besides crotchety PSA fans mention these changes as a bad thing.

If they change their labels or grading scale in the next few years I'll start to get skeptical - as of right now they just listened to customer feedback and implemented it quickly.

[jjcan]

Just got notice of shipping of a 50 card bulk order received 5/31. Really fast. Graders were good 64% CSG10 and CSG 9.5. The rest were some of my vintage HOF RC low grade cards.

2 shipments on the way to CSG. 1 prepped. Trying to make sure I send the low end stuff, local players before price increase.

Great timing on the slabs and these will be sold at the local summer fairs in person. Angels, Dodgers, Padres, Goats.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by TSonn

CSG did not change their grading standards. They added a mint+ grade and removed their pristine grade. The standards for a mint grade haven't changed. The standards for a gem mint grade haven't changed. Standards have not changed - if you want to be crabby about something you can say the grading scale changed.

Standards actually did change. CSG relaxed centering by 5%. So they did change grading standards and their grading scale.

9.5 Gem Mint prior to new slab. - "Centering must be 50/50 one way and 55/45 the other"

10 Gem Mint in new slab - "Centering is not to exceed approximately 55/45"

How about NM/Mint? Could only find a screen shot of old scale. So it is easier to post an image.

[grade]

Originally Posted by TSonn

Dude give it a break. CSG announced their label change and offered a fair $5 reholder fee for those interested.

CSG did not change their grading standards. They added a mint+ grade and removed their pristine grade. The standards for a mint grade haven't changed. The standards for a gem mint grade haven't changed. Standards have not changed - if you want to be crabby about something you can say the grading scale changed.

Most people appreciate how quick they made these changes. Some wish they made them quicker. Not many people besides crotchety PSA fans mention these changes as a bad thing.

If they change their labels or grading scale in the next few years I'll start to get skeptical - as of right now they just listened to customer feedback and implemented it quickly.

CSG also did change the grading standards and it has been proven, Go look at multiple sub groups on Facebook. I even posted results i found here.

Just because you dont agree with someone, does not mean it is not true.


I subbed with csg/cgc and just post my reviews and opinions of those subs. What pertains to me last year and to the recent new users this year may differ. But for the time i subbed last year, it is exactly as i post.

[discodanman45]

My 50-card order was received today and inserted into the system. It actually states, "scheduled for grading." Probably contains the weirdest mixture of cards for them. Have a T206, 1941 Play Ball, 1950 Bowman's, 60's, 70's, 80's, Kobe Bryant rookies, and a Sandy Alcantara Topps Chrome Refractor.

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by jjcan

Just got notice of shipping of a 50 card bulk order received 5/31. Really fast. Graders were good 64% CSG10 and CSG 9.5. The rest were some of my vintage HOF RC low grade cards.

2 shipments on the way to CSG. 1 prepped. Trying to make sure I send the low end stuff, local players before price increase.

Great timing on the slabs and these will be sold at the local summer fairs in person. Angels, Dodgers, Padres, Goats.

My bulk order arrived yesterday, marked received today and now scheduled for grading. Turn around time is key. Their slabs are the best in the industry for clarity among the big 4 and I still have my $150 credit.

[20husker00]

I've been keeping up with this thread, the other CSG thread on the new labels, and then the Grading market on the whole.

As it relates to this thread: My Bulk order from 05/18/2022 just wrapped today and was mailed. I've been very (very +) pleased with their service, and then with their new flips. Overall, my opinion of their slabs remains the same since Day 1 = best in the industry.

What's really interesting, and apologies if this should be on another post, but PSA lowering it's "Value" costs to $30, and CSG being $15, this really puts SGC in a weird spot I feel. I suspect (and I could be wrong) that maybe SGC rolls out a lower cost tier, with perhaps longer lead times. I know they have the Vintage market somewhat shored up, but CSG is lurking. With Andy Broome there, the service, the quality of their slabs .... it's going to inevitably add undertow pressure to SGC (esp. Modern) and even PSA.

These are just ongoing predictions. Overall, consumers are winning with costs creeping down. We'll see how the overall market pivots.

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by grade

CSG also did change the grading standards and it has been proven, Go look at multiple sub groups on Facebook. I even posted results i found here.

Just because you dont agree with someone, does not mean it is not true.


I subbed with csg/cgc and just post my reviews and opinions of those subs. What pertains to me last year and to the recent new users this year may differ. But for the time i subbed last year, it is exactly as i post.

You're stating this as fact which it is not. You can speculate that CSG got more lenient on grading based on a small amount of subs that people shared publicly.

Personally I haven't seen any changes. I've received 2 bulks back since the label change that had resubs in them - I had some 9s jump up to 9.5s and that makes sense because a 9.5, by definition, is "a card that displays premium eye appeal for a Mint card". Since the 9.5 didn't exist when I first graded, it makes sense that my better 9s (9s with solid subgrades) got a 9.5.

I had a few 9s jump to a 10. I also had a few 9s go down to an 8.5. I had plenty of 9s that stayed the same.

I also had a new bulk come back to me today with only two 10s and a handful of 9.5s.

All of this suggests no change in grading standards and instead we're just seeing the addition of a 9.5 grade along with standard human grader variance.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by 20husker00

What's really interesting, and apologies if this should be on another post, but PSA lowering it's "Value" costs to $30, and CSG being $15, this really puts SGC in a weird spot I feel. I suspect (and I could be wrong) that maybe SGC rolls out a lower cost tier, with perhaps longer lead times. I know they have the Vintage market somewhat shored up, but CSG is lurking. With Andy Broome there, the service, the quality of their slabs .... it's going to inevitably add undertow pressure to SGC (esp. Modern) and even PSA.

SGC has a huge fan base on YouTube and Peter did a great job of selling his product. Even though most people don't like the tuxedo, a bunch of people really like it. They have been busier than I thought at $30 and $23 through bulk submitters. They have been getting enough cards to stay about the 80,000 graded per month and I don't think PSA/CSG will change that. Their customers hate PSA and they feel like they are supporting the underdog.

I am using CSG because of cost alone. I really wish I could grade my vintage with the tuxedo, but I gave up on prices coming down. My vintage Bowman would look much better in a tuxedo than a crimped penny sleeve in a CSG holder. However, I don't use group submitters and $11 per card versus $30 is huge! For $600 I can grade 55 cards at CSG or 20 cards at PSA/SGC.

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by 20husker00

I've been keeping up with this thread, the other CSG thread on the new labels, and then the Grading market on the whole.

As it relates to this thread: My Bulk order from 05/18/2022 just wrapped today and was mailed. I've been very (very +) pleased with their service, and then with their new flips. Overall, my opinion of their slabs remains the same since Day 1 = best in the industry.

What's really interesting, and apologies if this should be on another post, but PSA lowering it's "Value" costs to $30, and CSG being $15, this really puts SGC in a weird spot I feel. I suspect (and I could be wrong) that maybe SGC rolls out a lower cost tier, with perhaps longer lead times. I know they have the Vintage market somewhat shored up, but CSG is lurking. With Andy Broome there, the service, the quality of their slabs .... it's going to inevitably add undertow pressure to SGC (esp. Modern) and even PSA.

These are just ongoing predictions. Overall, consumers are winning with costs creeping down. We'll see how the overall market pivots.

Hands down the best slabs! Their price increase was unexpected, but still half the cost of PSA/SGC

[grade]

Originally Posted by TSonn

You're stating this as fact which it is not. You can speculate that CSG got more lenient on grading based on a small amount of subs that people shared publicly.

Personally I haven't seen any changes. I've received 2 bulks back since the label change that had resubs in them - I had some 9s jump up to 9.5s and that makes sense because a 9.5, by definition, is "a card that displays premium eye appeal for a Mint card". Since the 9.5 didn't exist when I first graded, it makes sense that my better 9s (9s with solid subgrades) got a 9.5.

I had a few 9s jump to a 10. I also had a few 9s go down to an 8.5. I had plenty of 9s that stayed the same.

I also had a new bulk come back to me today with only two 10s and a handful of 9.5s.

All of this suggests no change in grading standards and instead we're just seeing the addition of a 9.5 grade along with standard human grader variance.

When did you first sub? Last month and this month is the same grading standards and labels. There are a lot , i mean a LOT of bulk users from the first few months of opening, they understand the difference.

Are you a member of any CSG/CGC groups outside of this forum? That might be the problem if you are not. I was a very strong supporter of CGC/SCG from the first months of operation , so am a member of many cgc/scg groups on various platforms.

This is just one of many resub results, basically it is what it is. The grading standards are easier now, different now, labels different now and just a different system overall now compared to last year.

We both can be right, i did 1000+ subs when they first opened. A newer user can come and sub the last few months and have a totally different opinion from me and still be right. We can both be right.

Both facts can be totally different and both can be right.

[20husker00]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

SGC has a huge fan base on YouTube and Peter did a great job of selling his product. Even though most people don't like the tuxedo, a bunch of people really like it. They have been busier than I thought at $30 and $23 through bulk submitters. They have been getting enough cards to stay about the 80,000 graded per month and I don't think PSA/CSG will change that. Their customers hate PSA and they feel like they are supporting the underdog.

I am using CSG because of cost alone. I really wish I could grade my vintage with the tuxedo, but I gave up on prices coming down. My vintage Bowman would look much better in a tuxedo than a crimped penny sleeve in a CSG holder. However, I don't use group submitters and $11 per card versus $30 is huge! For $600 I can grade 55 cards at CSG or 20 cards at PSA/SGC.

I like what SGC has done in the last 7-8 months. Peter has put the company in the trajectory of being a very reputable grading and authentication service. There's no doubt there.

I maybe would disagree on "people love the black tuxes". I think there's still not a passion for the SGC slabs and flips. They look good with vintage, sure. But the overall market isn't in love. The $30 ($23) price point was the biggest draw in the last 6-8 months. But now PSA is that. And CSG is half that with arguably the very best slabs. So I guess there's where my opinion lies. Peter will need to re-pivot again I feel.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

Hands down the best slabs! Their price increase was unexpected, but still half the cost of PSA/SGC

Do you know if there is any talk about CSG have speciality slabs for different shaped cards? Would be nice if they could slab a T206 or 1933 Goudey the way PSA/SGC does. I also have some tall boy basketball rookies I want slabbed. Are they going to be able to handle that in the future?

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Do you know if there is any talk about CSG have speciality slabs for different shaped cards? Would be nice if they could slab a T206 or 1933 Goudey the way PSA/SGC does. I also have some tall boy basketball rookies I want slabbed. Are they going to be able to handle that in the future?

I have not heard anything related to that. I don’t have any “irregular” cards. I think the price reduction of PSA impacts SGC’s strategy, even if their TAT is superior to PSA. They definitely have the vintage market, but overall, modern cards, especially chrome that are not complimented by the “tux” don’t pop. Since CSG changed their slab, I have now sent 90 cards to them, price and slab preference. I have sent around 10 to PSA and zero to SGC. IF I was willing to pay $30, not going to use a submitter for SGC, I would just send to PSA. Right now, only specific cards would be PSA bound at current prices.

[Tanker1812]

Latest CSG return

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by grade

When did you first sub? Last month and this month is the same grading standards and labels. There are a lot , i mean a LOT of bulk users from the first few months of opening, they understand the difference.

Are you a member of any CSG/CGC groups outside of this forum? That might be the problem if you are not. I was a very strong supporter of CGC/SCG from the first months of operation , so am a member of many cgc/scg groups on various platforms.

This is just one of many resub results, basically it is what it is. The grading standards are easier now, different now, labels different now and just a different system overall now compared to last year.

We both can be right, i did 1000+ subs when they first opened. A newer user can come and sub the last few months and have a totally different opinion from me and still be right. We can both be right.

Both facts can be totally different and both can be right.

I don't know why I keep engaging...

Yes, I'm a group member on multiple CSG groups outside of BO. I see all the stuff that you do. I subbed my first bulks back in march 2021. My recent bulks were april 2022. We've subbed similar amounts of cards but I've subbed more recently.

The facts that you see are a small chunk of a much bigger picture. Sure it can be a fact that some people showed publicly that their recent resubs got higher grades upon resub. It's also a fact that some subs did not. Whatever we are seeing is a tiny chunk of the actual grading scope and nowhere near enough to state unequivocally that they've become more lenient.

If I took a small sample size of my recent bulk, I could argue they've gotten more harsh.

It all leads to the most likely scenario that grading is subjective and human variance is the key in all of this. Heck, it's why people crack PSA 9s all day to try for PSA 10s. CSG is no different though I think they've been more consistent than any other company I've used. It's such a cop out to say "my facts are right and your facts are right" - well, I'm talking about a reality where people don't make definitive statements off small sample sizes which is exactly what you're doing.

Discodan was the only person who showed that CSG may have lightened up on their centering grading. Though, when I was cruising through the wayback machine to compare I didn't notice any difference. I was only looking at 9s and 10s though since those would've been the most likely culprits and the most impacted with the addition of the mint+ grade and the removal of the pristine grade.

[grade]

Originally Posted by TSonn

I don't know why I keep engaging...

Yes, I'm a group member on multiple CSG groups outside of BO. I see all the stuff that you do. I subbed my first bulks back in march 2021. My recent bulks were april 2022. We've subbed similar amounts of cards but I've subbed more recently.

The facts that you see are a small chunk of a much bigger picture. Sure it can be a fact that some people showed publicly that their recent resubs got higher grades upon resub. It's also a fact that some subs did not. Whatever we are seeing is a tiny chunk of the actual grading scope and nowhere near enough to state unequivocally that they've become more lenient.

If I took a small sample size of my recent bulk, I could argue they've gotten more harsh.

It all leads to the most likely scenario that grading is subjective and human variance is the key in all of this. Heck, it's why people crack PSA 9s all day to try for PSA 10s. CSG is no different though I think they've been more consistent than any other company I've used. It's such a cop out to say "my facts are right and your facts are right" - well, I'm talking about a reality where people don't make definitive statements off small sample sizes which is exactly what you're doing.

Discodan was the only person who showed that CSG may have lightened up on their centering grading. Though, when I was cruising through the wayback machine to compare I didn't notice any difference. I was only looking at 9s and 10s though since those would've been the most likely culprits and the most impacted with the addition of the mint+ grade and the removal of the pristine grade.

CSG and CGC are grading much easier right now. Dont know why you cannot see it. All the groups say the same. They even gave me credit when i challenged them last year. I had solid proof something was off.

Have not used the credit yet. That is how strong i disagree with the company after the inconsistent grades.

I will use the credit this year to REGRADE , RESLAB or RELABEL last years outdated subs. Just watching until they settle down and be more consistent.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by TSonn

I don't know why I keep engaging...

Discodan was the only person who showed that CSG may have lightened up on their centering grading. Though, when I was cruising through the wayback machine to compare I didn't notice any difference. I was only looking at 9s and 10s though since those would've been the most likely culprits and the most impacted with the addition of the mint+ grade and the removal of the pristine grade.

I finally gave up and put him on the ignore list. It is definitely worth not seeing his insane posts.

The data looks like CSG has eased up on grading quite a bit. That 5% centering occurs for every grade, so it is a pretty big deal. We won't know until later this year though. By CSG giving new cert numbers for cards being reholdered, it is definitely impacting their high Gem Mint rate on gemrate.com. Right now I would say that SGC is grading harder than CSG from the data, when that wasn't true before the new slab. CSG is still grading "harder" than PSA in the gem mint category, but we will have to wait until September to really look at that data. At that point the reslabbing should be minimal in the data. SGC Gem Mint rates are so much lower than everyone else's right now, it is hard to say anyone is grading harder than them right now.

People make way too big of a deal over grades. Whatever is on the label is within +/- 1 grade. If you get a 10 from any grading company, there is a 95% chance it falls between a 9 and 10 if cracked and subbed. If you get an 8, it will grade somewhere between a 7 and 9 if you crack and sub again. Every grading company is like this. PSA/SGC/CSG/BGS all have this fluctuation.

The biggest complaint about grades is when cards fall between a Mint and Gem Mint. The multipliers for a "perfect" card are what fuels the insanity of card grading. Depending on the opinion, you may have a $200 or $1000 card based not on the card in the slab, but the number on the slab. You may get two graders one day that just got raises and are super happy, that raises your chance of a gem mint grade by 50%. Or one of the graders just found out that his wife was cheating on him with her yoga instructor. No gem mints for you that day. As a buyer of cards, thank you for the discount of a 9. My gem mints will be available for trade, since if they were regraded, 50% of them wouldn't get a 10 again.

[grade]

love seeing smart people over think and fail in real situations, (nothing serious , just collecting and stuff.) Happy if they succeed in more important things.
Their mind gets clogged with information and get paralyzed when making decisions. Kind of funny.
Street smarts is very different from book smart. You need both to make smart decisions.

Right now, the smart money is with PSA, cheap cards with CSG. You can decide yourself what category you want to be in.

Block me all you want, Smart people learn from failure and studying what they dont know. Not circle jerking and agreeing with each other.

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by grade

CSG and CGC are grading much easier right now. Dont know why you cannot see it. All the groups say the same. They even gave me credit when i challenged them last year. I had solid proof something was off.

Have not used the credit yet. That is how strong i disagree with the company after the inconsistent grades.

I will use the credit this year to REGRADE , RESLAB or RELABEL last years outdated subs. Just watching until they settle down and be more consistent.

Here's my most recent bulk sub (sent May 13, received back to me today):

Grades
10: 2
9.5: 5
9: 20
8.5: 18
8 or lower: 16

Resubs:
9 to 9.5: 2
9 to 8.5: 2
9 stayed 9: 6
8.5 to 9: 1

Should I call them up and say I've heard on facebook they're being more lenient and demand a credit back to my account? Those grades are almost identical to my bulks from march and april of 2021.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by TSonn

Should I call them up and say I've heard on facebook they're being more lenient and demand a credit back to my account? Those grades are almost identical to my bulks from march and april of 2021.

You can't make anything of this data one way or another. This is not proof they are more lenient or grading harder. If you had 10,000 submissions than you would have legitimate data. The data from ALL of the submissions in April and May show that CSG is giving out more Gem Mint grades. That is a fact and not an opinion.

[grade]

Originally Posted by TSonn

Here's my most recent bulk sub (sent May 13, received back to me today):

Grades
10: 2
9.5: 5
9: 20
8.5: 18
8 or lower: 16

Resubs:
9 to 9.5: 2
9 to 8.5: 2
9 stayed 9: 6
8.5 to 9: 1

Should I call them up and say I've heard on facebook they're being more lenient and demand a credit back to my account? Those grades are almost identical to my bulks from march and april of 2021.

Kinda of hard to figure out if they are harder or easier if you dont have the same card, condition, slab ? The second results can be ultra great if they are vintage. I had a sub with PSA that had only a handful of 10's , but the was great considering what set the cards came from. had 9's that were pop 1 or under 5 pop with NO 10's , 8's that were upcharged.

[discodanman45]

Shipped 50 bulk Monday afternoon from California, arrived at post office late Wednesday, picked up by CSG on Thursday, scheduled for grading on Thursday, received invoice and was charged today. Things are moving quickly!

[jjcan]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Shipped 50 bulk Monday afternoon from California, arrived at post office late Wednesday, picked up by CSG on Thursday, scheduled for grading on Thursday, received invoice and was charged today. Things are moving quickly!

Yea they are super fast right now!! You probably will be shipped the cards by next Thursday.