Panini America Announces Plan to Address Kobe Bryant Autograph Redemptions

[jr24ai3]

Originally Posted by ichirorox

The people paying thousands for Kobe redemptions AFTER he died have no one to blame but themselves. Like what did they expect would happen???

Exactly. Why in the world would you buy a REDEMPTION of a guy who just died! Unless you knew that card was live, it makes no sense.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Fully expect means in my opinion, that is not a fact. In no way can it be read as fact, just stating what I expect will happen in the future. And again if California is anything like New York it will not matter. I do agree with you, max out what they have and use other items in the future. BG and Leaf use 8x10s, Cards, Checks, etc. Panini can do the same.

Agreed. The right decision is to exhaust all autographed cards or stickers with those that are legally owed these items. What they do with memorabilia is up to them.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by jr24ai3

Exactly. Why in the world would you buy a REDEMPTION of a guy who just died! Unless you knew that card was live, it makes no sense.

Agreed. However, most on this thread had redemptions in prior to his passing.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Have seen a large number of collectors on here (ourselves included) have been able to get through on rewards website and very little complaint of bots as compared to the FOTL, which I agree 100% with you needs an anti-bot or a lottery system.

The white sparkle packs are one of the better products that have been issued and did not last long enough for the average collector to get them. What other items has Panini issued to the site that you would contemplate trading the value of a Kobe auto for? I'll wait....

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

The white sparkle packs are one of the better products that have been issued and did not last long enough for the average collector to get them. What other items has Panini issued to the site that you would contemplate trading the value of a Kobe auto for? I'll wait....

There have been a large variety we would take (if you can find a cached page of what has been on there will gladly give you a list) and you offered the whole website, so would take that for a Kobe Auto.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

Agreed. The right decision is to exhaust all autographed cards or stickers with those that are legally owed these items. What they do with memorabilia is up to them.

Why I will be curious to see what happens in later years.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Why I will be curious to see what happens in later years.

This will lead to legal implications if they do it.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

There have been a large variety we would take (if you can find a cached page of what has been on there will gladly give you a list) and you offered the whole website, so would take that for a Kobe Auto.

Again, I don't want to look, but the point is that the site is typically full of trash that nobody would want.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

Again, I don't want to look, but the point is that the site is typically full of trash that nobody would want.

I actually took a quick look. Top prize is a Bam Adebayo Crown Royale RPA /25, DeMarco Murray patch auto, or a Donte Moncreif RPA. Would you consider any of these equitable to a Kobe auto? Even prior to his passing they would not have been equitable.

[jr24ai3]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

Agreed. However, most on this thread had redemptions in prior to his passing.

I agree it sucks that the redemptions couldn't be fulfilled for those people. However Panini creating a pack that you can get $1,500-$2,000 for seems pretty fair considering the value of the Kobe when your redemption was purchased or originally redeemed.

I know you want to look at current value. But it's pretty tough to get fair value when a legend dies so young.

Since you didn't like the pack, what would have been a fair replacement in your mind?

[giovipks]

Originally Posted by M4YH3M1

After taking painstaking time to read the last 2 pages of retorts, I agree with a couple of points from each. I won't go into it though.

However, there was a point made that there are superior redemptions out there and still waiting, BUT some lower valued (pre or post humous) that received autos whereas the HIGHER valued redemptions should have been looked after first and foremost.

IE: I'm waiting on a Origins Gold #/10 and IF I receive the same single 1 pack as those waiting on a #/99 Origins auto.. well I'll be a mushroom cloud laying mother f...

As would anyone that is in the same boat.

Bingo! The cavalier card guy doesn’t get this. He must be a rep for the company. It’s panini’s own policy to use Beckett value as a replacement value. They then ask you who you collect and try to accommodate that request the best they can within that value. That’s my issue which the panini rep, sorry cavalier cards guy, doesn’t want to understand.

A silver prizm isn’t the same value as a base prizm or a donruss base auto. Therefore the compensation delivered should be in alignment with every other redemption replacement they do (their policy). To which a 1 pack for all autos would not be fair


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[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by giovipks

Bingo! The cavalier card guy doesn’t get this. He must be a rep for the company. It’s panini’s own policy to use Beckett value as a replacement value. They then ask you who you collect and try to accommodate that request the best they can within that value. That’s my issue which the panini rep, sorry cavalier cards guy, doesn’t want to understand.

A silver prizm isn’t the same value as a base prizm or a donruss base auto. Therefore the compensation delivered should be in alignment with every other redemption replacement they do (their policy). To which a 1 pack for all autos would not be fair


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They should go off of current values as well, not what the values were prior to his passing. Again, the market should dictate the comps.

In cases where Panini or athletes under contract drag their feet and the market value decreases they should be responsible for the comp at the peak of the market. Maybe they would actually deliver on commitments in a timely manner if it were the case.

[mcley]

I got a 2019 Donruss Hall Dominator Signatures #29 from breaking before 2020 Thanksgiving. No update on my ticket since then. I sent an email to them after I saw their weekly update. No response.
I guess they are trying to fulfill older tickets first?

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

They should go off of current values as well, not what the values were prior to his passing. Again, the market should dictate the comps.

In cases where Panini or athletes under contract drag their feet and the market value decreases they should be responsible for the comp at the peak of the market. Maybe they would actually deliver on commitments in a timely manner if it were the case.

They should go what the value was when card was redeemed. Honestly when you redeem a value should pop up in the redemption page of what the card is worth.

They would not deliver any quicker under that plan, as they would still be beholden to the athletes.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by giovipks

Bingo! The cavalier card guy doesn’t get this. He must be a rep for the company. It’s panini’s own policy to use Beckett value as a replacement value. They then ask you who you collect and try to accommodate that request the best they can within that value. That’s my issue which the panini rep, sorry cavalier cards guy, doesn’t want to understand.

A silver prizm isn’t the same value as a base prizm or a donruss base auto. Therefore the compensation delivered should be in alignment with every other redemption replacement they do (their policy). To which a 1 pack for all autos would not be fair


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Have addressed that I do not work for them over and over again or not a rep. Like Topps with Jose Fernandez and others when it is a death they use the pre-death Beckett price as they should. I completely understand a $200 Auto being replaced with a $1800 pack.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

This will lead to legal implications if they do it.

Not necessarily.

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

I actually took a quick look. Top prize is a Bam Adebayo Crown Royale RPA /25, DeMarco Murray patch auto, or a Donte Moncreif RPA. Would you consider any of these equitable to a Kobe auto? Even prior to his passing they would not have been equitable.

That is what the cached history page shows of all time rewards as the best that has been on there?

No it is not, yes in the middle of a week I expect it will be bare but plenty of times it has not been and it would be an easier way to do just rewards and not redemptions.

[SPCardStore]

I just got notification that my 2018 Panini Encased (18-19) Endorsements Bronze FOTL Kobe Bryant Los Angeles Lakers G #5(/ 12) shipped. Will let you know what i get

[giovipks]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Have addressed that I do not work for them over and over again or not a rep. Like Topps with Jose Fernandez and others when it is a death they use the pre-death Beckett price as they should. I completely understand a $200 Auto being replaced with a $1800 pack.

Sir. You have a comprehension problem. I’ll be very very clear for the 3rd time. Remove your talking points from your mind for a second so you can grasp this.

Panini’s policy when they replace a redemption is to check Beckett value and then replace as close as possible. Regardless of the time frame of today or pre death a silver prizm is more valuable than a base than a donruss base. That should be very clear and easy to say. This is their policy it’s a very easy one to understand. Let me know if you got it.

Second you can’t keep referring to pre death prices because that doesn’t exist. And if the unfortunate situation didn’t occur these packs that you keep referring to as the $2000 wouldn’t exist either. So you can’t play the agenda for how it fits your narrative. That’s not how logic works. You have to be consistent. If you want to refer to the $2000 number that is today’s number. So you must also refer to the Kobe auto current value. Again today’s number.

So please explain to me cavalier cards how a silver prizm is the same value as a base prizm as a donruss as a optic /10


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[Cavaliercards]

Pre death prices do exist I can look at a Beckett or worthpoint or terapeak and see them clearly. Their policy is not as clear as you are making it to be, when it comes to a player being deceased. That is very clear and has been from multiple companies from some time. Just like when Kawhi got hot Panini did not up their replacements for him or when Harper got hot Topps did not up their replacements. So no it is not the clear situation, that you are trying to make it be nor has it ever been. There are no talking points and there is no problem, we just disagree respectfully.

You are right a silver prizm should get a half pack while an optic /10 should get a full pack, as the values don’t match up.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by jr24ai3

I agree it sucks that the redemptions couldn't be fulfilled for those people. However Panini creating a pack that you can get $1,500-$2,000 for seems pretty fair considering the value of the Kobe when your redemption was purchased or originally redeemed.

I know you want to look at current value. But it's pretty tough to get fair value when a legend dies so young.

Since you didn't like the pack, what would have been a fair replacement in your mind?

What about comparable autos from other legends or rookies, along with a limited Career Highlights card?

[giovipks]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Pre death prices do exist I can look at a Beckett or worthpoint or terapeak and see them clearly. Their policy is not as clear as you are making it to be, when it comes to a player being deceased. That is very clear and has been from multiple companies from some time. Just like when Kawhi got hot Panini did not up their replacements for him or when Harper got hot Topps did not up their replacements. So no it is not the clear situation, that you are trying to make it be nor has it ever been. There are no talking points and there is no problem, we just disagree respectfully.

You are right a silver prizm should get a half pack while an optic /10 should get a full pack, as the values don’t match up.

You have a comprehension issue sir. I wish you the best. No reason to engage any longer.


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[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by giovipks

Panini’s policy when they replace a redemption is to check Beckett value and then replace as close as possible. Regardless of the time frame of today or pre death a silver prizm is more valuable than a base than a donruss base. That should be very clear and easy to say. This is their policy it’s a very easy one to understand. Let me know if you got it.

This is 100% correct for all other redemptions....just not Kobe.

Originally Posted by giovipks

Second you can’t keep referring to pre death prices because that doesn’t exist. And if the unfortunate situation didn’t occur these packs that you keep referring to as the $2000 wouldn’t exist either. So you can’t play the agenda for how it fits your narrative. That’s not how logic works. You have to be consistent. If you want to refer to the $2000 number that is today’s number. So you must also refer to the Kobe auto current value. Again today’s number.

I'm willing to bet that these will be $1,200 or less by the time Panini gets around to issuing them all. Again, because they chose to favor certain redemptions, not necessarily by the date they were submitted (some are 5+ years old and still outstanding), those that received packs early in the distribution were at an advantage over those receiving theirs at the end of the distribution. This is an unequitable situation created 100% by Panini's lack of planning and forethought.

Originally Posted by giovipks

So please explain to me cavalier cards how a silver prizm is the same value as a base prizm as a donruss as a optic /10

His point is that both are more valuable than 80% of the redemptions that received the same pack. Again, it's not equitable regardless of the perceived value of the pack.

[thecardscout]

Originally Posted by ichirorox

The people paying thousands for Kobe redemptions AFTER he died have no one to blame but themselves. Like what did they expect would happen???

There was an update that Panini had actually met with kobe prior to his tragic death for a signing.

[thecardscout]

Originally Posted by tmar214

Why cant you just let people vent and stay out of it? It doesn't seem like you're involved in the process, it doesn't seem like you're waiting on an auto. No one cares about the "insider" view of why panini is doing the right thing. They are making a ridiculous amount of money right now. If they wanted to go the extra mile to pay out full value they could. People don't need to hear all the reasons why panini or any other company would never do it. The real reason is simple. They would rather risk angering a minuscule portion of their customer base than spend millions extra on payouts.

Even if the replacement process is fair value they have done an awful job with transparency and execution. People are being sent a package that could have a 15,000$ card in it, a 5,000$ card or a pack that thats worth under 2,000$. Of course they're going to be emotional when they get the short end on value after seeing people with worse redemptions do much better. All panini needed to do was have someone sort out how many outstanding Kobe redemptions there are and how many autos they have as replacements. Assign the replacement autos in whichever way they thought was best and give packs to the rest. If their system is at all organized this is an extremely easy process and they could have posted who is getting a pack vs who is getting an auto on their redemption site from the start. At least at that point people know what they're getting and can accept it. No transparency, no organization, general guidelines that haven't been consistent for who gets what. Of course people are upset.

Vanguard autos are being shipped. Early in the process those autos were being replaced with impeccable autos worth over 10,000$. What will they be replaced with now. Low end sticker auto products autos # /25 were replaced with select autos earlier. What will a /11 auto from a mid end product get?

Because hes a sham and an enabler. Or he works for Panini.

[thecardscout]

Go look at the BBB reviews of Panini. WE ALL MUST BE CRAZY CAVALIERCARDS..

Anyone now how to block an account?