Panini America Announces Plan to Address Kobe Bryant Autograph Redemptions

[ichirorox]

Originally Posted by thecardscout

You are part the reason Panini gets away with how they treat customers. Pretty sad you think this way tbh. Panini has the resources to make customers receive an item other than a kobe auto that has similar value. Some people paid thousands for kobe redemptions after he died. These Mosaic packs were a joke and showed Paninis lack of remorse for the people getting screwed out of Kobe autos. They could have paid Zion and Morant some extra bucks to replace Kobes auto on a tribute card or something like that. But that would have cost them more money which they had to spend. They didnt though because at the end of the day they dont give AF that people got screwed.

The people paying thousands for Kobe redemptions AFTER he died have no one to blame but themselves. Like what did they expect would happen???

[casebreaksllc]

notification of shipped Regal Achievement Signatures Premium Edition (/ 11)

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by celtics

You have an answer for everything but my question for you is how are they picking who gets an auto and who doesn't? Shouldn't the auto's go to those who have had redemptions in their system the longest and packs go to those who don't?

My other question is why did some people get replacements a month ago and some people are still waiting?

I personally think the replacements are great whether it be packs or autos but the way they are handling it isn't fair to those who have been waiting longer.

1) autographs should go to people with that card if they have that card signed or stickered


2) they are working with a limited staff and a massive wave, so it’s going out as quickly as possible

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by thecardscout

You are part the reason Panini gets away with how they treat customers. Pretty sad you think this way tbh. Panini has the resources to make customers receive an item other than a kobe auto that has similar value. Some people paid thousands for kobe redemptions after he died. These Mosaic packs were a joke and showed Paninis lack of remorse for the people getting screwed out of Kobe autos. They could have paid Zion and Morant some extra bucks to replace Kobes auto on a tribute card or something like that. But that would have cost them more money which they had to spend. They didnt though because at the end of the day they dont give AF that people got screwed.

Panini is not getting away with anything and no we are not part of a problem. People paid thousands for redemptions after he died, that is their choice not Paninis. People knew they were redemptions that they were not likely to be filled. If they paid Zion and Morant people would still complain as those cards would be watered down and they would not have the value you are saying people are already complaining about. They already spent more money doing these packs, so that already disproves your theory.

[tmar214]

Why cant you just let people vent and stay out of it? It doesn't seem like you're involved in the process, it doesn't seem like you're waiting on an auto. No one cares about the "insider" view of why panini is doing the right thing. They are making a ridiculous amount of money right now. If they wanted to go the extra mile to pay out full value they could. People don't need to hear all the reasons why panini or any other company would never do it. The real reason is simple. They would rather risk angering a minuscule portion of their customer base than spend millions extra on payouts.

Even if the replacement process is fair value they have done an awful job with transparency and execution. People are being sent a package that could have a 15,000$ card in it, a 5,000$ card or a pack that thats worth under 2,000$. Of course they're going to be emotional when they get the short end on value after seeing people with worse redemptions do much better. All panini needed to do was have someone sort out how many outstanding Kobe redemptions there are and how many autos they have as replacements. Assign the replacement autos in whichever way they thought was best and give packs to the rest. If their system is at all organized this is an extremely easy process and they could have posted who is getting a pack vs who is getting an auto on their redemption site from the start. At least at that point people know what they're getting and can accept it. No transparency, no organization, general guidelines that haven't been consistent for who gets what. Of course people are upset.

Vanguard autos are being shipped. Early in the process those autos were being replaced with impeccable autos worth over 10,000$. What will they be replaced with now. Low end sticker auto products autos # /25 were replaced with select autos earlier. What will a /11 auto from a mid end product get?

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by tmar214

Why cant you just let people vent and stay out of it? It doesn't seem like you're involved in the process, it doesn't seem like you're waiting on an auto. No one cares about the "insider" view of why panini is doing the right thing. They are making a ridiculous amount of money right now. If they wanted to go the extra mile to pay out full value they could. People don't need to hear all the reasons why panini or any other company would never do it. The real reason is simple. They would rather risk angering a minuscule portion of their customer base than spend millions extra on payouts.

Even if the replacement process is fair value they have done an awful job with transparency and execution. People are being sent a package that could have a 15,000$ card in it, a 5,000$ card or a pack that thats worth under 2,000$. Of course they're going to be emotional when they get the short end on value after seeing people with worse redemptions do much better. All panini needed to do was have someone sort out how many outstanding Kobe redemptions there are and how many autos they have as replacements. Assign the replacement autos in whichever way they thought was best and give packs to the rest. If their system is at all organized this is an extremely easy process and they could have posted who is getting a pack vs who is getting an auto on their redemption site from the start. At least at that point people know what they're getting and can accept it. No transparency, no organization, general guidelines that haven't been consistent for who gets what. Of course people are upset.

Vanguard autos are being shipped. Early in the process those autos were being replaced with impeccable autos worth over 10,000$. What will they be replaced with now. Low end sticker auto products autos # /25 were replaced with select autos earlier. What will a /11 auto from a mid end product get?

We are letting people vent, we also are waiting on a few autographs ourselves.Again they spent extra money, so no your reason is not simple or correct. That is why I am commenting on the situation, because of incorrect comments like that they wanted to anger people and didnt spend money.

You are assuming their system is not organized, I will agree it is not transparent to level you may want, but I do not believe there would ever have been a level to some that would have been acceptable. Guidelines have been consistent, you get an autograph or you get a pack.

We will find out soon what a /10 auto will be replaced with ourselves (and six others)

[OldReignman]

Waiting for the controversy if panini ever has Kobe autos in future high end sets as a selling point or better yet if employees kept some

[tmar214]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

We are letting people vent, we also are waiting on a few autographs ourselves.Again they spent extra money, so no your reason is not simple or correct. That is why I am commenting on the situation, because of incorrect comments like that they wanted to anger people and didnt spend money.

You are assuming their system is not organized, I will agree it is not transparent to level you may want, but I do not believe there would ever have been a level to some that would have been acceptable. Guidelines have been consistent, you get an autograph or you get a pack.

We will find out soon what a /10 auto will be replaced with ourselves (and six others)

I assume their system isn't organized when an optic fast break auto gets replaced by a select auto and an Optic gold auto gets replaced by a pack. But yes maybe they have a spreadsheet somewhere and decided that certain low end autos were worth more than some other autos that in reality sold for 3-4x as much. Maybe they are organized despite having jumped around sending out the packs / autos vs going from oldest to newest or most valuable to least valuable (or any system that might make sense).

They could have went above and beyond to make people happy. They didn't. You can argue all you want but thats true. Because the market is hot they are able to give mosaic packs that cost them next to nothing to produce but hold decent value. A fortunate situation where collectors still get at worst a 1500$ valuation for their redemptions. It's fine enough. If they were transparent and efficient in the process I believe they would have gotten more favorable feedback.

[carrollm09]

Originally Posted by OldReignman

Waiting for the controversy if panini ever has Kobe autos in future high end sets as a selling point or better yet if employees kept some

Not in the short term, but in 3-5 years they'll "find" previously unknown Kobe autos in a drawer and insert them as a selling point.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[lion2120]

I had a 2018-19 Crown Royale /49 that got replaced by a pack today...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by OldReignman

Waiting for the controversy if panini ever has Kobe autos in future high end sets as a selling point or better yet if employees kept some

Fully expect it to happen as part of the deal with the estate that sheets of stickers would be retained for a $20000 Kobe tribute product.

[Yanks23]

As i have said before in this thread it is hard to defend a company that never makes a card from 2017 (2017-18 Mosaic auto - which would be a sticker) but makes cards every year after that. You ask them prior to Kobe death after 2 years of waiting about a replacement for different Kobe auto they tell you to they cant do that. This is my main problem with Panini is dont issue a redemption for a card that you never make but make 100's more year after year and wont give customer a replacement of the same player.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Fully expect it to happen as part of the deal with the estate that sheets of stickers would be retained for a $20000 Kobe tribute product.

I can promise you that if this is the case Panini will have significant litigation on their hands. You can’t honor your commitments but can issue a product down the road with said auto? You want to see an uproar....I can guarantee you that the media will latch onto this story.

And yet you still defend them? Unreal.

[celtics]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

1) autographs should go to people with that card if they have that card signed or stickered


2) they are working with a limited staff and a massive wave, so it’s going out as quickly as possible

I had an optic fast break auto replaced with a Select In Flight. I know what should be done but its not what is being done.

[celtics]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Fully expect it to happen as part of the deal with the estate that sheets of stickers would be retained for a $20000 Kobe tribute product.

Shouldn't Panini put these stickers on redemption cards? They owe it to their customers.

[celtics]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

I can promise you that if this is the case Panini will have significant litigation on their hands. You can’t honor your commitments but can issue a product down the road with said auto? You want to see an uproar....I can guarantee you that the media will latch onto this story.

And yet you still defend them? Unreal.

Panini can do no wrong for him, there's an excuse for everything

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by celtics

Panini can do no wrong for him, there's an excuse for everything

Have not offered an excuse, have offered the reality of the situation and what is ongoing and I have agreed they could be more transparent by releasing a sheet saying you have this you get this. I think they shouldnt do redemptions at all, I think it should be points. We have a number of fundamental differences with their practices, but can defend all the card companies when it is fair.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by celtics

Shouldn't Panini put these stickers on redemption cards? They owe it to their customers.

They should put them on there, but as I had it explained to me by someone from New York, Topps can hold back at the request of the estate once the person has passed due to law in that state. It may or not be that way for California and/or Texas, I am just saying what I will not be surprised to see happen going forward. I hope I am wrong and they just max out the stickers and then use in-house autos from memorabilia and cut them up.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

I can promise you that if this is the case Panini will have significant litigation on their hands. You can’t honor your commitments but can issue a product down the road with said auto? You want to see an uproar....I can guarantee you that the media will latch onto this story.

And yet you still defend them? Unreal.

As I said above can not speak for California/Texas law, but in other states litigation would flop instantly. Media did not latch on to many hobby stores from grading and otherwise like people have thought and there is good reason for that.

We are discussing a hypothetical and as I have already said I would hope they would utilize the stickers to full extent and cut up other items for "cut" autographs.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Have not offered an excuse, have offered the reality of the situation and what is ongoing and I have agreed they could be more transparent by releasing a sheet saying you have this you get this. I think they shouldnt do redemptions at all, I think it should be points. We have a number of fundamental differences with their practices, but can defend all the card companies when it is fair.

The issue is that the items offered for their "rewards" resembles a dumpster with a week's worth of rotting chicken. Can you honestly say that there is anything there that you would grab in lieu of a Kobe auto? Even better, I'll give you everything on their site and you likely won't have equitable value. Points are not the answer when you cannot redeem them for anything of value.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

The issue is that the items offered for their "rewards" resembles a dumpster with a week's worth of rotting chicken. Can you honestly say that there is anything there that you would grab in lieu of a Kobe auto? Even better, I'll give you everything on their site and you likely won't have equitable value. Points are not the answer when you cannot redeem them for anything of value.

Have there been items released we would have taken over a Kobe auto, of course there have been. If you gave me everything on their site for a Kobe Auto you would have more than enough auto.

Rewards website is constantly updated Panini, Topps, and UD would be smart to go this route and get away from redemptions. Go to full rewards program, it prevents issues like this and takes away the stress when an athlete does not sign. Either that or get the leagues and Players Associations to agree to less hits per products, so if someone doesnt sign they dont have to worry about not having the number of hits. Say a product should have 45000 hits, let the PA/League drop it to 30000 and then if you get back 35000 you can put the rest on rewards website.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

As I said above can not speak for California/Texas law, but in other states litigation would flop instantly. Media did not latch on to many hobby stores from grading and otherwise like people have thought and there is good reason for that.

We are discussing a hypothetical and as I have already said I would hope they would utilize the stickers to full extent and cut up other items for "cut" autographs.

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Fully expect it to happen as part of the deal with the estate that sheets of stickers would be retained for a $20000 Kobe tribute product.

You mentioned this as if it was fact, not hypothetical, which is what drew the response you received. This will be a bad PR move if they use stickers on future products.

[jjohnson114]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Have there been items released we would have taken over a Kobe auto, of course there have been. If you gave me everything on their site for a Kobe Auto you would have more than enough auto.

Rewards website is constantly updated Panini, Topps, and UD would be smart to go this route and get away from redemptions. Go to full rewards program, it prevents issues like this and takes away the stress when an athlete does not sign. Either that or get the leagues and Players Associations to agree to less hits per products, so if someone doesnt sign they dont have to worry about not having the number of hits. Say a product should have 45000 hits, let the PA/League drop it to 30000 and then if you get back 35000 you can put the rest on rewards website.

You mention all of these items on their site, but realize that the average collector cannot get them when bots are allowed to exist. It's not an equitable solution.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

You mentioned this as if it was fact, not hypothetical, which is what drew the response you received. This will be a bad PR move if they use stickers on future products.

Fully expect means in my opinion, that is not a fact. In no way can it be read as fact, just stating what I expect will happen in the future. And again if California is anything like New York it will not matter. I do agree with you, max out what they have and use other items in the future. BG and Leaf use 8x10s, Cards, Checks, etc. Panini can do the same.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by jjohnson114

You mention all of these items on their site, but realize that the average collector cannot get them when bots are allowed to exist. It's not an equitable solution.

Have seen a large number of collectors on here (ourselves included) have been able to get through on rewards website and very little complaint of bots as compared to the FOTL, which I agree 100% with you needs an anti-bot or a lottery system.