LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[Jamesebee]

Originally Posted by raynaldhandojo

I'm sure you all know that Beccket will decline altered, recolouring and fake cards, and it's possible that Beccket also done some human error sometime.

The onus on disclosing alterations or modifications to the card falls to the original owner of the card. If they feign uncertainty over the card's history, and the current owner recognizes something has been done to alter it's long term market value, he will pursue, in order, previous card owner(s), grading companies, and known modifiers like yourself.

I'm not a lawyer by any stretch, but recognizing there's people paying for cards continuously fluctuating in market value, while grading companies and modifiers are providing a service that runs rampant to this hobby's integrity...that's a tough spot for any previous card owners to be in.

Just because I provide a service doesn't mean the outcome is sunshine and roses...it disappoints me to see poor business decisions like this being made in full view of collectors. It's too much of an ethical dilemma, going beyond a grading company's efforts to determine condition universally when every card is, in theory, a 1 of 1.

This is why we can't have nice things, I guess...

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

Originally Posted by Silentcommit
Dude, if a card is in a certain grade, then that's the grade the card is.

I think what silentcommit means is that if a grading company designates a grade to a card then that is what it is, meaning the grading company has determined it was not trimmed or altered. A lot of people are aware of notorious trimmers, but once in the grading case, they feel it has been assessed by the grading company and that is what it is.

We know what silentcommit is saying and it has no merit because he has missed the point far and wide. He's doing no more than spinning his wheels in the mud like some of the people before him did in trying to downgrade the magnitude of the things revealed in this thread.

The primary discussion here revolves around BNC and his altered Lebron RPA cards, but in addition to those specific cards, he also has other high value cards listed for sale and he has not disclosed their history, (which he is well aware of), to potential buyers. Further, he has also openly stated he is in favor of getting cards bumped in grade, obviously so he can make more money and this links to his now revealed involvement in trimming cards, or having them trimmed for the bump. There is no way so many cards are linked to a central hub, in this case, BNC as a coincidence. Silentcommit's "just a few cards" is off the mark, his latest posts are so off that I'm starting to think he either hasn't gone through the thread, or is trolling.

The notion, that "well if that's what the grade is then that's what it is" is absolute nonsense. Any one who truly believes that, then believes that the card in the quote below is genuine, because, hey, look, that's what PSA says it is. The card linked in the quoted post following that clearly does NOT have a 10 surface and is not a 9.5 card. ...but hey, "if that's what the grade is, then that's what it is" right? The argument is total bunkum. No one with half his wit intact would look at either one of these and determine that the former is genuine and that the latter is in the condition that the grader has determined.

We can play the opinions game all day, but there comes a point where competency in understanding the thread's contents starts to go out the door and no one should be taking such posts seriously. If it's all the same to some people, then what exactly is the point of posting in here? He also hasn't responded to those rebuttals to his opinion, "if that's the grade then that's what it is" but he did chime in once you took some of the weight off of him. Maybe he will now, maybe he won't, either way it doesn't matter because the argument doesn't hold up.

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

According to you, this is genuine.



get out of here, lmao

Originally Posted by cking

Can you explain this to me then?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...=odell+scratch

----------

Originally Posted by jbarnett83

Looks like wegotstock99 just posted this on IG....

LMAO, I wonder if he'll be filing a chargeback on that one. It's all fun and games until you're the one that gets stung.

Also, the raynaldhandojo guy, you are nothing more than a deceiver. Your example of fixing a car before selling it to the dealer is invalid. What you're doing is more akin to fixing a car up, failing to mention it was in an accident and lying about it when the buyer asks and then selling the car, knowing its true state.

You are no different from KenCope cutting up sheets of Jambalaya cards, you are no different from counterfeiters, because you are all co-opting the hobby of many just so you can gain financially. You cannot do it through honest means, so you resort to defrauding people and you are all ruinous to the hobby.

[Deadshot]

I've looked into the Kobe LL stuff a little this morning, but I don't think it's worth much of our time as far as this convo goes (and Worthpoint is struggling today).

I'll quote myself from several places here, but I still feel this is a realistic path to take from here on out. Could we try this?

EDIT: Looking back, I think I'd swap the MJ and AI on my list.

Originally Posted by Deadshot

I think PWCC is an entirely different conversation (though it certainly needs to be had).

Let's focus things back in.

What are the main cards of concern here and what will happen with them?

1. Obviously you have the 2 2003 LeBron's.
2. There's the other LeBron that the original owner thought would grade a BGS 6-8.
3. The Kobe in the PSA holder.
4. The MJ 7/23 is a little concerning but that looks like a previously existing problem.
5. The Iverson SOTT. BNC did the right thing in taking it off his website, but I'd like to know what happened to the card from there. How do we guarantee it won't be sold on some other medium in the future?

Did I miss anything?

Someone in the last page or two did a rundown on people who are associated with BNC in some way. While we need to be careful before accusing them of anything, it would be nice to know the extent of their relationship with BNC. Unfortunately, BNC has put them in an awkward spot with his own silence.

I imagine there could be minor points of contention with what I just said, but please know that I am trying to move this conversation forward without getting hung up on semantics.

Originally Posted by Deadshot

Let's try a different path. A hypothetical if you will.

Let's say we can get BNC to agree to answer more questions. Let's come up with a list of questions together and try to put them in the proper order they should be asked.

If we want serious answers, we need serious, open-ended questions. I'd like to be able to take the lists of people involved and the cards and place them all on a timelines of sorts.

Also, I think a good amount of time should be focused on what will be done going forward.

Can we make a serious attempt at this, even if people here don't think we'll ever be able to get BNC to talk again?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by raynaldhandojo

I just want to clarify, that it’s up to the cards owner want to get the cards fixed or not. Some people are being hypocrite thinking that the card is not genuine by being repaired. But as far as I know, most hobbyist want to get their cards score as high as it can, that means you need to get your cards perfect.
And at the end, the score rank and authenticity are done by Beccket not the cards owner. And I’m sure you all know that Beccket will decline altered, recolouring and fake cards, and it's possible that Beccket also done some human error sometime. I once a former collector, and I have encounter many different sizes of original cards like MJ XRC, Noyz Boyz , Slam Cam, Ultimate Signature those cards has different sizes (big/small), not because the cards are being altered. It’s nothing worth arguing, people are free to have their opinions and choices.

bye..

You should feel lucky that you don't live in the United States. There was someone who went to jail in part for doing what you are doing.

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by Lee42

Also while we are mentioning BuyNiceCards......it appears they have sold a Kobe Bryant 2006/07 Limited Logos that has a fake patch in it.

02/50 shows up as sold on their site and it has the fake patch in it.

You can tell by the stitching that the patch does not look right and doesn't compare to the quality and stitching of those real patches in the set.

I have included one of the real letter "A" patches (45/50) from the Lakers nameplate to compare it to.

Not saying that BNC put in the fake patch, but it appears they have sold the card.

Cheers
Matt

Great detective work.

[Silentcommit]

AbraCalabro,

My point is that card would sell for alot of money because it's in that holder. Regardless of how you feel about it. That's my only point.

You disagree with that? Fine. I'm ok with you having a different opinion than I do.

[Deadshot]

*Neither of these versions seem to have been owned by BNC*

I just want to post this to show how hard it is to work with these Kobe cards. I still maintain that it's not a lead worth spending too much time with.



https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...atch-142636875



Am I missing something here? Why would someone switch either one of these patches out? They're both awesome.

[dogzman]

They should have been slabbed with an A just like they do to vintage trimmed cards. They should not have a number grade because they have been altered. He is presenting it as if they are not altered and he is knowingly being deceiving.

[Silentcommit]

Originally Posted by dogzman

They should have been slabbed with an A just like they do to vintage trimmed cards. They should not have a number grade because they have been altered. He is presenting it as if they are not altered and he is knowingly being deceiving.

But they aren't slabbed as altered. The grading companies say thy are not altered, so there will be a market for them. This isn't hard.

[chuckerrrr]

Originally Posted by corndog

I don't believe anyone has said that the cards that you alter by repair are not genuine. They are simply altered, and should be labeled as such if they are slabbed. They should not be given a grade by card grading companies. Not calling the repairing or trimming of cards "altered" is dishonest. As others have pointed out with different analogies, it is no different than selling an "all original, numbers matching, never tampered with" 1965 Mustang Shelby for big money and then the buyer finds out that the engine block numbers don't match the rest of the car - thus significantly decreasing the value of the car.

Not disclosing that a card's condition has been tampered with is dishonest, shady, and lying.

Correct.

[AlabamaSlamma]

Originally Posted by Deadshot

*Neither of these versions seem to have been owned by BNC*

I just want to post this to show how hard it is to work with these Kobe cards. I still maintain that it's not a lead worth spending too much time with.

Am I missing something here? Why would someone switch either one of these patches out? They're both awesome.

What in the ever-loving hell? I found the same "E" patch listing on Worthpoint, and it dates back to April 2008. Were you able to find any dates for the "A" patch version? I found the same picture in Google Images, but no details.

[KhalDrogo]

Edit: Nevermind.

Here is the instagram with the fake patch 10/50.

https://www.instagweb.com/media/BlQ3AZ7h7Qf

[KhalDrogo]

Who is boogielabs?

[Deadshot]

Well I said I wouldn't spend much time on the Kobe but I like piecing things together like this. Someone needed to do this for the LL anyway.

I'm just posting what cards match up with what numbers. Those of you that like trends can have a field day with this. If you find others out there that I'm missing please let me know. I placed a couple at the bottom that I can't make serial numbers out on.

If this image is too big I can edit this post with a link instead.

[Silentcommit]

All,

Im ducking out of the thread, which should make some very happy. I originally got involved only because I disagreed the way in which some posters were disparaging good members of our community by implying they were criminals or somehow shady without any evidence at all. That bothered me, so I spoke up. I should have stopped there but didnt.

If I offended some of you, frankly you deserved it. But others didnt. Ive learned alot from the boarders, and appreciate members like AbraCalabra, 27guy, and others who share knowledge and have patiently answered questions from members not as knowledgeable.

So have a great new year! Also, I'm trying to complete the 98 hoops bams/slam bams set, so if you have any, let me know!

[UltimateDeron]

Originally Posted by AlabamaSlamma

What in the ever-loving hell? I found the same "E" patch listing on Worthpoint, and it dates back to April 2008. Were you able to find any dates for the "A" patch version? I found the same picture in Google Images, but no details.

Theory:

10/50 first had a plain purple patch or a 2 color, non aesthetically pleasing patch. It was replaced with the “E” patch. Clearly this one is fake. You can tell just by comparing the stitching to any other authentic Kobe Limited Logos. So after time went by it wasn’t selling because the patch is an obvious fake to most collectors, so the patch was swapped out again. This time with a patch from either A) a Jordan Farmar patch (only Lakers name with an “A” from that year) or B) an authentic Kobe Bryant Jersey from the NBA Store (what are they, $180?).

Either way, 10/50 appears to be fake and it’s current state is the “A” patch according to the Instagram post by boogielabs.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Silentcommit

All,

Im ducking out of the thread, which should make some very happy. I originally got involved only because I disagreed the way in which some posters were disparaging good members of our community by implying they were criminals or somehow shady without any evidence at all. That bothered me, so I spoke up. I should have stopped there but didnt.

If I offended some of you, frankly you deserved it. But others didnt. Ive learned alot from the boarders, and appreciate members like AbraCalabra, 27guy, and others who share knowledge and have patiently answered questions from members not as knowledgeable.

So have a great new year! Also, I'm trying to complete the 98 hoops bams/slam bams set, so if you have any, let me know!

BNC may have some?

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Who is boogielabs?

He’s a big-time collector and a BO member.

So he was the buyer of 10/50?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by UltimateDeron

Theory:

10/50 first had a plain purple patch or a 2 color, non aesthetically pleasing patch. It was replaced with the “E” patch. Clearly this one is fake. You can tell just be comparing the stitching to any other authentic Kobe Limited Logos. So after time went by it wasn’t selling because the patch is an obvious fake to most collectors, so the patch was swapped out again. This time with a patch from either A) a Jordan Farmar patch (only Lakers name with an “A” from that year) or B) an authentic Kobe Bryant Jersey from the NBA Store (what are they, $180?).

Either way, 10/50 appears to be fake and it’s current state is the “A” patch according to the Instagram post by boogielabs.

That was my thought as well. Don’t have any reason to believe boogielabs did it. Sucks to be him if he bought that thinking it was real.

[Deadshot]

Here's 4 more Kobe's but I can't make out the serial numbers.

https://www.webstagram.one/media/BdvNM-dnC7_

I'd still like to collectively come up with a list of questions for BNC should he ever decide to talk.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

He’s a big-time collector and a BO member.

So he was the buyer of 10/50?

Who knows when he bought it, but he’s the current owner it looks like.

The card sold in April 2008 and again in April 2011 with the fake E patch.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by UltimateDeron

Theory:

10/50 first had a plain purple patch or a 2 color, non aesthetically pleasing patch. It was replaced with the “E” patch. Clearly this one is fake. You can tell just be comparing the stitching to any other authentic Kobe Limited Logos. So after time went by it wasn’t selling because the patch is an obvious fake to most collectors, so the patch was swapped out again. This time with a patch from either A) a Jordan Farmar patch (only Lakers name with an “A” from that year) or B) an authentic Kobe Bryant Jersey from the NBA Store (what are they, $180?).

Either way, 10/50 appears to be fake and it’s current state is the “A” patch according to the Instagram post by boogielabs.

I think you nailed it.

Edit: misinformation on my part deleted

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

I think you nailed it.

So what does this mean for Eric considering he sold the card (consigned)? Has he finally qualified for PBM status or is this still too circumstantial for Houdini to
make a ruling on.

BNC did not own or consign 10/50 as far as we know.

[ThoseBackPages]

imagine him posting on BO again?

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

BNC may have some?

Ill have the whole set avail once my 88 Topps baseball commons come back from raynalhandojo

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