LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

I changed my stance? Bowed out?

It’s very hard to take you seriously when you spew nonsense.

Come on now. Don't act like you weren't one of the most vocal proponents for BNC and Adam since you stepped foot in this thread. Your tone was very clear from the jump, as was evident by your top post count.

I'm not going to go around in circles about that though. It is what it is.

[cypher]

The accused don't even need to defend themselves. There will always be someone that loves to play the antagonist.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Come on now. Don't act like you weren't one of the most vocal proponents for BNC and Adam since you stepped foot in this thread. Your tone was very clear from the jump, as was evident by your top post count.

I'm not going to go around in circles about that though. It is what it is.

I’m a proponent of BNC? I’ve been one of his harshest critics from the onset, and was bumping this thread CALLING OUT BNC before you and your cronies showed up.

And LOL at you making the laziest argument ever, constantly pointing out that I’m the top poster in this thread while blurring out your name that has the fifth most posts. You are a joke!!!

Almost everyone knows it but I’ll say it to you because you should know. YOU BRING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO THESE BOARDS. YOU IN FACT ARE A DETRIMENT TO THESE BOARDS. MISREPRESENTING MY WORDS AND VIEWPOINTS ARE JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

I won’t ever respond to you again because you’ve already wasted enough of my time. I wish you join the PBMs soon because your fake news schtick is dangerous and irresponsible. My apologies to the others on these boards for temporarily derailing this thread but somebody needs to call out this punk. I know deadshot will get it back on track.

Now SCREW OFF and don’t call me out with your lies again.

[SacGWYNN19]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

I’m a proponent of BNC? I’ve been one of his harshest critics from the onset, and was bumping this thread CALLING OUT BNC before you and your cronies showed up. You are a BONAFIDE IDIOT.

And LOL at you making the laziest argument ever, constantly pointing out that I’m the top poster in this thread while blurring out your name that has the fifth most posts. You are a joke!!!

Almost everyone knows it but I’ll say it to you because you should know. YOU BRING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO THESE BOARDS. YOU IN FACT ARE A DETRIMENT TO THESE BOARDS. MISREPRESENTING MY WORDS AND VIEWPOINTS ARE JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

I won’t ever respond to you again because you’ve already wasted enough of my time. I wish you join the PBMs soon because your fake news schtick is dangerous and irresponsible. My apologies to the others on these boards for temporarily derailing this thread but somebody needs to call out this punk. I know deadshot will get it back on track.

Now SCREW OFF and don’t call me out with your lies again.

Well said. He has added zero value to this thread from the beginning. Unless, of course, being a troll is adding value.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

I’m a proponent of BNC? I’ve been one of his harshest critics from the onset, and was bumping this thread CALLING OUT BNC before you and your cronies showed up. You are a BONAFIDE IDIOT.

And LOL at you making the laziest argument ever, constantly pointing out that I’m the top poster in this thread while blurring out your name that has the fifth most posts. You are a joke!!!

Almost everyone knows it but I’ll say it to you because you should know. YOU BRING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO THESE BOARDS. YOU IN FACT ARE A DETRIMENT TO THESE BOARDS. MISREPRESENTING MY WORDS AND VIEWPOINTS ARE JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

I won’t ever respond to you again because you’ve already wasted enough of my time. I wish you join the PBMs soon because your fake news schtick is dangerous and irresponsible. My apologies to the others on these boards for temporarily derailing this thread but somebody needs to call out this punk. I know deadshot will get it back on track.

Now SCREW OFF and don’t call me out with your lies again.

The caps lock emphasis really set it off. Well done, hun. I felt a slight shiver overcome me with those brazen words.

Oddly enough, looks like you may have just tipped yourself with that oddly familiar DevinKurant prose you used there, champ. But what do I know about PBM's....

Must feel oddly satisfying knowing you exerted nearly 190 posts worth of 'must have been coincidence! b-b-ut...confusion!' counters only to continually look like a fool with each new shred of evidence.

Perhaps I may not have contributed much, but that just means you contributed almost 70 more posts of sheer worthlessness.

If only your encyclopedia of knowledge on Luka prizm negated the outright doltish reasoning you displayed in here for many peoples' enjoyment.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

I’m a proponent of BNC? I’ve been one of his harshest critics from the onset, and was bumping this thread CALLING OUT BNC before you and your cronies showed up. You are a BONAFIDE IDIOT.

And LOL at you making the laziest argument ever, constantly pointing out that I’m the top poster in this thread while blurring out your name that has the fifth most posts. You are a joke!!!

Almost everyone knows it but I’ll say it to you because you should know. YOU BRING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO THESE BOARDS. YOU IN FACT ARE A DETRIMENT TO THESE BOARDS. MISREPRESENTING MY WORDS AND VIEWPOINTS ARE JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

I won’t ever respond to you again because you’ve already wasted enough of my time. I wish you join the PBMs soon because your fake news schtick is dangerous and irresponsible. My apologies to the others on these boards for temporarily derailing this thread but somebody needs to call out this punk. I know deadshot will get it back on track.

Now SCREW OFF and don’t call me out with your lies again.

Geez dude. It’s not that serious.

[cking]

Originally Posted by Silentcommit

Dude, if a card is in a certain grade, then that's the grade the card is.

Can you explain this to me then?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...=odell+scratch

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

I know deadshot will get it back on track.

I've tried several times with little to no success.

Let's try a different path. A hypothetical if you will.

Let's say we can get BNC to agree to answer more questions. Let's come up with a list of questions together and try to put them in the proper order they should be asked.

If we want serious answers, we need serious, open-ended questions. I'd like to be able to take the lists of people involved and the cards and place them all on a timelines of sorts.

Also, I think a good amount of time should be focused on what will be done going forward.

Can we make a serious attempt at this, even if people here don't think we'll ever be able to get BNC to talk again?

[JMANIA]

Originally Posted by Silentcommit
Dude, if a card is in a certain grade, then that's the grade the card is.

Originally Posted by cking

Can you explain this to me then?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...=odell+scratch

I think what silentcommit means is that if a grading company designates a grade to a card then that is what it is, meaning the grading company has determined it was not trimmed or altered. A lot of people are aware of notorious trimmers, but once in the grading case, they feel it has been assessed by the grading company and that is what it is. This is somewhat problematic now with serial numbered cards that can be traced as there is a history of the card. Before grading companies, I only remember the main fakes as a Pete Rose rookie and 1984 Donruss Mattingly. Then after grading companies, many more fakes came out as values rose. Also, you used to be able to go to a card shop in the 1980's or a card show before grading companies and buy cards and not even worry that they were trimmed. So the existence of grading companies brought out trimmed cards as the incentive to make money came about. At the same time, the graders are human and are not perfect. PSA gives a guarantee that if we had the information it could not keep up with the buybacks or value reductions. Really the FBI let PSA off the hook with the Mastro investigation. He was a card doctor on more than just the Wagner card. If PSA really wanted to do its "guarantee", it would have made some effort to track down cards. It has banned trimmers in the past but it is not like it went out of its way to "recall" the cards the person already sold. PSA has a guarantee which does not apply to the person who submitted the card where it either buys the card back at its current value or allows the customer to keep the card and pay the difference in value. https://www.psacard.com/about/financialguarantee

[Silentcommit]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

Originally Posted by Silentcommit
Dude, if a card is in a certain grade, then that's the grade the card is.



I think what silentcommit means is that if a grading company designates a grade to a card then that is what it is, meaning the grading company has determined it was not trimmed or altered. A lot of people are aware of notorious trimmers, but once in the grading case, they feel it has been assessed by the grading company and that is what it is. This is somewhat problematic now with serial numbered cards that can be traced as there is a history of the card. Before grading companies, I only remember the main fakes as a Pete Rose rookie and 1984 Donruss Mattingly. Then after grading companies, many more fakes came out as values rose. Also, you used to be able to go to a card shop in the 1980's or a card show before grading companies and buy cards and not even worry that they were trimmed. So the existence of grading companies brought out trimmed cards as the incentive to make money came about. At the same time, the graders are human and are not perfect. PSA gives a guarantee that if we had the information it could not keep up with the buybacks or value reductions. Really the FBI let PSA off the hook with the Mastro investigation. He was a card doctor on more than just the Wagner card. If PSA really wanted to do its "guarantee", it would have made some effort to track down cards. It has banned trimmers in the past but it is not like it went out of its way to "recall" the cards the person already sold. PSA has a guarantee which does not apply to the person who submitted the card where it either buys the card back at its current value or allows the customer to keep the card and pay the difference in value. https://www.psacard.com/about/financialguarantee

Great post. Thanks for better articulating the point I was trying to make better than I did.

[cking]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

I think what silentcommit means is that if a grading company designates a grade to a card then that is what it is, meaning the grading company has determined it was not trimmed or altered. [/url]

Ok, I understand what you are saying to an extent.

Its the quoted part I dont understand.

What you are saying is by assinging grades the grading company is determining a card is not trimmed or altered.

Yet there are tons of cards given grades that are proven altered?

Are you saying the grading company is wrong and did not catch the alteration?

[JMANIA]

Originally Posted by cking

Ok, I understand what you are saying to an extent.

Its the quoted part I dont understand.

What you are saying is by assinging grades the grading company is determining a card is not trimmed or altered.

Yet there are tons of cards given grades that are proven altered?

Are you saying the grading company is wrong and did not catch the alteration?

I am saying that by giving a grade the grading company's opinion is that the card is not fake or altered/trimmed. Many people feel once graded the company determined it was not trimmed and that is what the market value will show. Yes, there are tons of cards given grades that were actually trimmed/altered and missed by grading companies, but you do not know because they are not numbered like the ones noted in this forum. The reality is that PSA was started with the guarantee that it can detect trimmed/altered cards, but it cannot detect the best trim jobs.

[dogzman]

People are delusional...can't fix stupid!

[Lee42]

Also while we are mentioning BuyNiceCards......it appears they have sold a Kobe Bryant 2006/07 Limited Logos that has a fake patch in it.

02/50 shows up as sold on their site and it has the fake patch in it.

You can tell by the stitching that the patch does not look right and doesn't compare to the quality and stitching of those real patches in the set.

I have included one of the real letter "A" patches (45/50) from the Lakers nameplate to compare it to.

Not saying that BNC put in the fake patch, but it appears they have sold the card.

Cheers
Matt

[corndog]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

I am saying that by giving a grade the grading company's opinion is that the card is not fake or altered/trimmed. Many people feel once graded the company determined it was not trimmed and that is what the market value will show. Yes, there are tons of cards given grades that were actually trimmed/altered and missed by grading companies, but you do not know because they are not numbered like the ones noted in this forum. The reality is that PSA was started with the guarantee that it can detect trimmed/altered cards, but it cannot detect the best trim jobs.

And the possibility/probability exists that the bolded part has been overlooked at times when certain submissions arrive. The old "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" has been around since the beginning of time. We don't know whether that is what took place with the confirmed altered cards, but we do know that the submitter knowingly cracked out and resubmitted repaired or altered cards for regrading with the confidence of getting higher grades resulting in newly elevated values. And Eric Bitz (BuyNiceCards) appears to be one of those submitters.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Lee42

Also while we are mentioning BuyNiceCards......it appears they have sold a Kobe Bryant 2006/07 Limited Logos that has a fake patch in it.

02/50 shows up as sold on their site and it has the fake patch in it.

You can tell by the stitching that the patch does not look right and doesn't compare to the quality and stitching of those real patches in the set.

I have included one of the real letter "A" patches (45/50) from the Lakers nameplate to compare it to.

Not saying that BNC put in the fake patch, but it appears they have sold the card.

Cheers
Matt

Hmm, that's an interesting find.

I can tell the difference in stitching, as you pointed out.

Can't locate another previous sale on the 2/50 though.


What do you make of the patch on this one? Seems more in-line with the less pronounced stitching on the 2/50, but a bit harder to tell.


https://www.instagweb.com/media/BlQ3AZ7h7Qf


Seems like a select few of those cards came with solid purple jersey swatches.

[Lee42]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Hmm, that's an interesting find.

I can tell the difference in stitching, as you pointed out.

Can't locate another previous sale on the 2/50 though.


What do you make of the patch on this one? Seems more in-line with the less pronounced stitching on the 2/50, but a bit harder to tell.


https://www.instagweb.com/media/BlQ3AZ7h7Qf


Seems like a select few of those cards came with solid purple jersey swatches.

The one you posted looks ok from the nameplate on the back of the jersey.

I had 2 Kobes at one point and was collecting this set at one stage back in 2007/08.

The Kobe patches were either:

- GU Jersey Patch Pieces (nameplate/team name or letter patches)
- Some had patches from a shooting shirt which were different material but consistent through the print run.
- a handful of 1 colour purple patch pieces.

The 2/50 i posted above doesn't match any of those patch pieces nor is it consistent with the stitching or patches from any other year of Kobe Limited Logos.

[Raj3sh]

another picture

Originally Posted by Lee42

Also while we are mentioning BuyNiceCards......it appears they have sold a Kobe Bryant 2006/07 Limited Logos that has a fake patch in it.

02/50 shows up as sold on their site and it has the fake patch in it.

You can tell by the stitching that the patch does not look right and doesn't compare to the quality and stitching of those real patches in the set.

I have included one of the real letter "A" patches (45/50) from the Lakers nameplate to compare it to.

Not saying that BNC put in the fake patch, but it appears they have sold the card.

Cheers
Matt

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Lee42

The one you posted looks ok from the nameplate on the back of the jersey.

I had 2 Kobes at one point and was collecting this set at one stage back in 2007/08.

The Kobe patches were either:

- GU Jersey Patch Pieces (nameplate/team name or letter patches)
- Some had patches from a shooting shirt which were different material but consistent through the print run.
- a handful of 1 colour purple patch pieces.

The 2/50 i posted above doesn't match any of those patch pieces nor is it consistent with the stitching or patches from any other year of Kobe Limited Logos.

Oh ok makes sense, thanks for the clarification. I hope someone might chime in with some knowledge, or perhaps kept a more thorough database on these.

[jbarnett83]

Originally Posted by Raj3sh

another picture

Looks like wegotstock99 just posted this on IG....

[raynaldhandojo]

I just want to clarify, that it’s up to the cards owner want to get the cards fixed or not. Some people are being hypocrite thinking that the card is not genuine by being repaired. But as far as I know, most hobbyist want to get their cards score as high as it can, that means you need to get your cards perfect.
And at the end, the score rank and authenticity are done by Beccket not the cards owner. And I’m sure you all know that Beccket will decline altered, recolouring and fake cards, and it's possible that Beccket also done some human error sometime. I once a former collector, and I have encounter many different sizes of original cards like MJ XRC, Noyz Boyz , Slam Cam, Ultimate Signature those cards has different sizes (big/small), not because the cards are being altered. It’s nothing worth arguing, people are free to have their opinions and choices.

bye..

[COMCMax]

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by raynaldhandojo

I just want to clarify, that it’s up to the cards owner want to get the cards fixed or not. Some people are being hypocrite thinking that the card is not genuine by being repaired. But as far as I know, most hobbyist want to get their cards score as high as it can, that means you need to get your cards perfect.
And at the end, the score rank and authenticity are done by Beccket not the cards owner. And I’m sure you all know that Beccket will decline altered, recolouring and fake cards, and it's possible that Beccket also done some human error sometime. I once a former collector, and I have encounter many different sizes of original cards like MJ XRC, Noyz Boyz , Slam Cam, Ultimate Signature those cards has different sizes (big/small), not because the cards are being altered. It’s nothing worth arguing, people are free to have their opinions and choices.

bye..

And your opinion sucks. The whole point of altering a card is to "get their cards to score as high as it can", which then falsely inflates the value of that card when the owner passes it off to an unsuspecting buyer.

You have a whole lot of bad karma coming your way buddy.

[MeteoriteGuy]

Guys, we should encourage such posters to talk...which basically means not jumping on them a minute after posting.

Some cards do come out of packs different sizes, Ray is correct there.

I am lacking in knowledge on the mj xrc, Ray. Could you tell what repairing might go on one of these cards? Do you have any thoughts on autographed cards?

[corndog]

Originally Posted by raynaldhandojo

I just want to clarify, that it’s up to the cards owner want to get the cards fixed or not. Some people are being hypocrite thinking that the card is not genuine by being repaired. But as far as I know, most hobbyist want to get their cards score as high as it can, that means you need to get your cards perfect.
And at the end, the score rank and authenticity are done by Beccket not the cards owner. And I’m sure you all know that Beccket will decline altered, recolouring and fake cards, and it's possible that Beccket also done some human error sometime. I once a former collector, and I have encounter many different sizes of original cards like MJ XRC, Noyz Boyz , Slam Cam, Ultimate Signature those cards has different sizes (big/small), not because the cards are being altered. It’s nothing worth arguing, people are free to have their opinions and choices.

bye..

I don't believe anyone has said that the cards that you alter by repair are not genuine. They are simply altered, and should be labeled as such if they are slabbed. They should not be given a grade by card grading companies. Not calling the repairing or trimming of cards "altered" is dishonest. As others have pointed out with different analogies, it is no different than selling an "all original, numbers matching, never tampered with" 1965 Mustang Shelby for big money and then the buyer finds out that the engine block numbers don't match the rest of the car - thus significantly decreasing the value of the car.

Not disclosing that a card's condition has been tampered with is dishonest, shady, and lying.