49ers_swag - Awaiting Your Response as Fantasy Football Commissioner

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

100% agree and I've said it many times.

Don't get me wrong, I despise scammers and understand that Houdini's "Wyatt Earp" approach is effective, that doesn't make it right though. It may not happen today and it may not happen tomorrow but eventually one of these blasted innocent parties is going to sue and they are going to win. That would be bad for all of us that enjoy this site.

Sue for what? If the information is public they wouldn't have much a case. It's not like Houdini is spreading unsubstantiated lies

[jmscoggin]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Sue for what? If the information is public they wouldn't have much a case. It's not like Houdini is spreading unsubstantiated lies

Really? Libel would be a very easy case. By Houdini's own words the pictures and contact information are posted here to cause stress, damages and harm to those posted about. A proven scammer has almost no leg to stand on but all an innocent party would need to do is to show the posts with their personal information, link to Houdini's prior messages and force him to prove they were involved or complicit in any way, shape or form. We all know that in most cases that would be impossible to prove so they win.

Look, I love that Houdini takes such a hard stance against scammers and gives them no quarter but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences for some of his strategies and/or actions. I'm not a lawyer but I've got a fair amount of training in this area. I've warned him many times in the past both publicly and privately. He's comfortable continuing to do this which is his right. Like I said, I love his intentions, just not how far he takes his methods.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Really? Libel would be a very easy case. By Houdini's own words the pictures and contact information are posted here to cause stress, damages and harm to those posted about. A proven scammer has almost no leg to stand on but all an innocent party would need to do is to show the posts with their personal information, link to Houdini's prior messages and force him to prove they were involved or complicit in any way, shape or form. We all know that in most cases that would be impossible to prove so they win.

Look, I love that Houdini takes such a hard stance against scammers and gives them no quarter but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences for some of his strategies and/or actions. I'm not a lawyer but I've got a fair amount of training in this area. I've warned him many times in the past both publicly and privately. He's comfortable continuing to do this which is his right. Like I said, I love his intentions, just not how far he takes his methods.

maybe, but they would have to prove they were actually harmed in some way or that the intent of Houdini was to intentionally harm them.

Look, I'm no lawyer either... maybe we should ask our resident bus driver, but I don't think it's a slam dunk like you're making it seem.

Then again, with enough cash, you can win any case lol

[LiftingAddict]

I am all for Houdini putting him on blast and informing his family. The reason people do this is because they don’t think there will be serious repercussions.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Really? Libel would be a very easy case. By Houdini's own words the pictures and contact information are posted here to cause stress, damages and harm to those posted about. A proven scammer has almost no leg to stand on but all an innocent party would need to do is to show the posts with their personal information, link to Houdini's prior messages and force him to prove they were involved or complicit in any way, shape or form. We all know that in most cases that would be impossible to prove so they win.

Look, I love that Houdini takes such a hard stance against scammers and gives them no quarter but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences for some of his strategies and/or actions. I'm not a lawyer but I've got a fair amount of training in this area. I've warned him many times in the past both publicly and privately. He's comfortable continuing to do this which is his right. Like I said, I love his intentions, just not how far he takes his methods.

Nothing would come if it assuming the scamming piece is correct. "Here's scammer John Doe. Here is proof that he scammed. He's married to Jane doe. Here's a picture of grandma doe."

The worst thing that could happen is that the post would have to come down.

[chrisfaceoff]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

Why does it matter? Unless you plan on scamming the forum I don't see why anyone would not be in favor of Houdini going nuclear on these idiots.

They had every opportunity to not have their families information exposed yet they choose not to. That is all on them...not Houdini.

To me it matters because they could be in the crossfire for their personal and professional careers for something that they aren't involved in.

Lets just say this dirtball has a brother who he hasn't seen for years because he doesn't talk to him at all and is on the other side of the country.

You think its fair that he might have to suffer because of it? I sure as hell don't.

:Like i said, if Houdini(or anyone else) knows they are participants in helping him do this to others, then by all means, put them on blast, scream their names from the mountain tops and let it be known.

This person probably doesn't care about anything other than getting money from people. Not their family, friends, or anything else. Its not right to potentially bring in someone else's life into this for something they are unaware of and no part in doing. They shouldn't have to work to clear their name because of this asshat.

I honestly believe I would feel this way if I had involvement in this league as well. The entire situation sucks, and I hope these individuals get what is owed to them, and this dirtball suffers the consequences of his actions, but not potentially at the expense of someone else who has nothing to do with it.

[stryk]

I remember back in the day I was a GM of a local restaurant here. I ran a report and found out a young server had stolen about $150 from us. She came in and there was not any kind of emotion from her when I made my case of what she had done. I told her if she paid the money back nothing would happen except she would lose her job. If she didn't lay it back that day, I would call the police. Again no emotion and pretty much told me whatever. Then I pulled out her employee file and found her emergency contact information and she listed her mother. I said never mind, I am just going to contact your mother. She immediately burst into tears, screamed no and gave me the money back right then.

If this criminal doesn't come forth, his known associates should be listed. Not accused of anything, but at least be acknowledged since all we are trying to do is get in touch with him. Who knows he might be missing to them as well.

[Super8er]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I never saw it as gong after someone’s family. I see it as motivating the scammer to make things right. I think the scammer should never have their information taken down. I would take down and family members information once things are made right. If not, well the scammer didn’t think of the people they were hurting so why should we? Scammers should be made to feel every ounce of embarrassment and they should have to carry that around. People here trust each other and when that trust is broken due to someone trying to pull a fast one, game over.

That’s what makes Haiku so different. They knew they were going to scam off the bat so they were very careful with how they created everything. I’m sure the BODA here has done everything they can to uncover the true identity. Most other members here break bad like Walter White. They see an opportunity and take it, not realizing how many people here have their information.

I frequently find my opinions at odds with those of Brobocop, but this... I agree 100%.

I go through my entire life (not just interactions on Blowout) trying to do the right, lawful and moral thing, because I believe it's the correct way to go through life... but also this is the 21st century. You will most likely get caught and then rightfully called out and punished for doing stupid things. I have zero sympathy for these idiots.

[wheeler281]

In this case it won't matter. They share a facebook page so once the shared page is posted both their names are there. Not much you can do about it.

When I see a dual page I automatically want to ask "Who Cheated" lol

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by wheeler281

In this case it won't matter. They share a facebook page so once the shared page is posted both their names are there. Not much you can do about it.

When I see a dual page I automatically want to ask "Who Cheated" lol

Having a dual page is weird and does make you wonder about the trust in the relationship

[jmscoggin]

Originally Posted by chrisfaceoff

To me it matters because they could be in the crossfire for their personal and professional careers for something that they aren't involved in.

Lets just say this dirtball has a brother who he hasn't seen for years because he doesn't talk to him at all and is on the other side of the country.

You think its fair that he might have to suffer because of it? I sure as hell don't.

:Like i said, if Houdini(or anyone else) knows they are participants in helping him do this to others, then by all means, put them on blast, scream their names from the mountain tops and let it be known.

This person probably doesn't care about anything other than getting money from people. Not their family, friends, or anything else. Its not right to potentially bring in someone else's life into this for something they are unaware of and no part in doing. They shouldn't have to work to clear their name because of this asshat.

Agree 100%. Over the years, wives, siblings, grandparents etc of scammers have been listed in this forum and have been contacted by various members. Places of employment have also been contacted and you'd be a fool to argue that having someone call your place of employment to link you to a scammer would not have negative consequences. We live in a litigious society, employers are increasingly quick to let people go at the mere inference of impropriety.

We live in a society where your social media footprint matters and it can have professional consequences. I can tell you right now that I've worked in industries where all of my online actions from forums, to Ebay, to Craigslist etc were checked on a regular basis. I absolutely would have faced negative consequences should my name have been linked online to something like this, even if it was my wife, brother, child etc that did the bad action and I had no proven involvement in any way. Some of you are being very naive on this and letting your blood thirst for scammers cloud your judgment.

Definition of libel

1 a : a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought
2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression
b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means (3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel

What many of your are supporting is a textbook case of libel. Justifying it as a means to punish scammers is in no way a legal defense. Call me a white knight if you wish (you would be completely off base) but the law is very clear in this regard.

Now, if there is proof that the family member/friend had something to do with the scamming, have at em with full fury.

[LoveRookies]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

maybe, but they would have to prove they were actually harmed in some way or that the intent of Houdini was to intentionally harm them.

Look, I'm no lawyer either... maybe we should ask our resident bus driver, but I don't think it's a slam dunk like you're making it seem.

Then again, with enough cash, you can win any case lol

I think I can settle this thing right now, at least as far as the legal aspect goes (I am an attorney). Houdini is exposing himself to potential liability by posting family member's information online. A claim could be made (in the right circumstances) for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress. The difficult part would be for the potential plaintiff to prove damages. All of that aside, the scammers on this site are some of the worst people on the planet, yet I still can't support any efforts to inflict harm/shame/distress on unknowing family members, regardless of whether or not it gets the desired results.

[Jagsfansunshine]

Go figure. 1st league I went undefeated in. If your out there Swag, don't be embarrassed for being late. Just pay us and most all will be forgiven. Here's to hoping you're just a procrastinator

[LoveRookies]

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Agree 100%. Over the years, wives, siblings, grandparents etc of scammers have been listed in this forum and have been contacted by various members. Places of employment have also been contacted and you'd be a fool to argue that having someone call your place of employment to link you to a scammer would not have negative consequences. We live in a litigious society, employers are increasingly quick to let people go at the mere inference of impropriety.

We live in a society where your social media footprint matters and it can have professional consequences. I can tell you right now that I've worked in industries where all of my online actions from forums, to Ebay, to Craigslist etc were checked on a regular basis. I absolutely would have faced negative consequences should my name have been linked online to something like this, even if it was my wife, brother, child etc that did the bad action and I had no proven involvement in any way. Some of you are being very naive on this and letting your blood thirst for scammers cloud your judgment.

Definition of libel

1 a : a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought
2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression
b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means (3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel

What many of your are supporting is a textbook case of libel. Justifying it as a means to punish scammers is in no way a legal defense. Call me a white knight if you wish (you would be completely off base) but the law is very clear in this regard.

Now, if there is proof that the family member/friend had something to do with the scamming, have at em with full fury.

This circumstance (posting family member's information/picture) probably wouldnt suffice for a libel suit. Additional facts would have to be present, such as insinuating or claiming that the family member was a party to the douchebaggery committed by the BO member.

[jmscoggin]

Originally Posted by LoveRookies

This circumstance (posting family member's information/picture) probably wouldnt suffice for a libel suit. Additional facts would have to be present, such as insinuating or claiming that the family member was a party to the douchebaggery committed by the BO member.

Does the fact that I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night count for anything?

[LoveRookies]

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Does the fact that I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night count for anything?

No, but your status as a valued member of BO (at least in my eyes) surely does.

[TDiddy532]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Having a dual page is weird and does make you wonder about the trust in the relationship

[chrisfaceoff]

Originally Posted by TDiddy532

I was thinking the same thing haha

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by LoveRookies

I think I can settle this thing right now, at least as far as the legal aspect goes (I am an attorney). Houdini is exposing himself to potential liability by posting family member's information online. A claim could be made (in the right circumstances) for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress. The difficult part would be for the potential plaintiff to prove damages. All of that aside, the scammers on this site are some of the worst people on the planet, yet I still can't support any efforts to inflict harm/shame/distress on unknowing family members, regardless of whether or not it gets the desired results.

Can you search westlaw for similar cases? This could be informative now that we have an attorney on board.

[LoveRookies]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

Can you search westlaw for similar cases? This could be informative now that we have an attorney on board.

One certainly could research relevant caselaw. I'm not going to do it, but if someone wants to go down that rabbit hole then I salute them. I'll even send them helpful search tips to expedite their search.

[BostonNut]

Swag to the max fo sho!

He looks like Nate from The Office.

[TheFrenzy]

I will never not be shocked by what is out there on the internet.

[Wade Mulroy]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

Swag to the max fo sho!

He looks like Nate from The Office.

Hahaha! Perfect reference, lol

[daxwills]

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Does the fact that I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night count for anything?

Bedbugs?

[JMarchand1981]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

Swag to the max fo sho!

He looks like Nate from The Office.

Nate from The Office looks like a young Sobotka from The Wire