Westbrook in straight beast mode again...

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Meanwhile, Harden couldn't get it done tonight in Portland.

As a matter of fact, he was pretty lousy in the 4th qtr. Not a way to respond to Russ's big night.

Expect we will see more of that in the Playoffs.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Expect we will see more of that in the Playoffs.

Right, wrong or indifferent, MVP voters can be victims of the moment. In a race this close, it may really come down to who is hot at the end.

The other factor is that the Thunder are playing for a lot more than Houston right now. The Rockets are locked in the 3 seed, while OKC could finish anywhere from 4-7.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Meanwhile, Harden couldn't get it done tonight in Portland.

As a matter of fact, he was pretty lousy in the 4th qtr. Not a way to respond to Russ's big night.

4ast, 6to isn't a good look.

[EMD34]

Originally Posted by cnewby

4ast, 6to isn't a good look.

First game all year he's had fewer than 7 assists, it's like he's trying to give Westbrook the MVP.

At this point it's hard to argue against Westbrook winning it.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by EMD34

First game all year he's had fewer than 7 assists, it's like he's trying to give Westbrook the MVP.

At this point it's hard to argue against Westbrook winning it.

Honestly, I'm still all for a co-MVP with how great both have been. And I'm typically a big Harden detractor.

[tke1600]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Honestly, I'm still all for a co-MVP with how great both have been. And I'm typically a big Harden detractor.

Vegas still has Harden -165 and RWB +120 as of today. I'm starting to wonder if they already know the outcome because those lines make no sense in the reality of how close they are, and imo, how RWB is actually leading.

[xavieronly1]

Originally Posted by tke1600

Vegas still has Harden -165 and RWB +120 as of today. I'm starting to wonder if they already know the outcome because those lines make no sense in the reality of how close they are, and imo, how RWB is actually leading.

MVP award usually ties to team record. It is about putting up numbers every night as well as the numbers can transfer to the win column.

Stat-wise, both Harden and Westbrook are about the same. And Houston has a better record.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by xavieronly1

Stat-wise, both Harden and Westbrook are about the same. And Houston has a better record.

If by "about the same" you mean not the same then yes.

Pts - WB +2.5
Ast - Har +0.9
Reb - WB +2.6

[EMD34]

Originally Posted by tke1600

Vegas still has Harden -165 and RWB +120 as of today. I'm starting to wonder if they already know the outcome because those lines make no sense in the reality of how close they are, and imo, how RWB is actually leading.

It was -300 and +150 before the 57 point triple double, it's trending Westbrook's way.

Originally Posted by cnewby

If by "about the same" you mean not the same then yes.

Pts - WB +2.5
Ast - Har +0.9
Reb - WB +2.6

Westbrook scores 2.5 points more but on much lower efficiency (61.5%TS vs 55.2%TS)

Harden Assists slightly more, but with slightly more TOs (5.8 to 5.4)

and Westbrook rebounds more, but leads the league in uncontested rebounds (8.5 to Harden's 6.4)

I'd say their numbers are about the same.

[tennelson55]

Wronnnggggg

[EMD34]

.....................

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by EMD34

It was -300 and +150 before the 57 point triple double, it's trending Westbrook's way.



Westbrook scores 2.5 points more but on much lower efficiency (61.5%TS vs 55.2%TS)

Harden Assists slightly more, but with slightly more TOs (5.8 to 5.4)

and Westbrook rebounds more, but leads the league in uncontested rebounds (8.5 to Harden's 6.4)

I'd say their numbers are about the same.

Numbers are definitely not the same, its how you interpret the numbers that draws you to that conclusion. Which voter cares about the difference in "uncontested rebounds"???

[DajuanWagner]

Let's just be honest, Westbrook will get the MVP. He will be rewarded for being the player that fans want to see and his historic numbers. There won't be a co-MVP, so Westbrook gets the nod. They can't get this one wrong, can they??????

[EMD34]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Numbers are definitely not the same, its how you interpret the numbers that draws you to that conclusion. Which voter cares about the difference in "uncontested rebounds"???

It's actually become a fairly significant story-line

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...ll_westbrooks/

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports...his_stats.html

https://medium.com/@crabdribbles/a-d...g-568d9378bea4

http://fansided.com/2016/12/05/nylon...riple-doubles/

and any voter who understands the value of their vote will look at all available information.

[realreodeal]

Look at the minutes played per game. Harden plays a lot more than Westbrook. Even more impressive to average what Westbrook is while actually playing very few minutes. I think I heard he only has 2 games with more than 40 minutes played and one of those games was the 57 point triple double game that went into overtime.

[CubKings]

With this uncontested rebound complaint, it's possible it's by design. Maybe OKC thinks they have a better advantage, which they probably do, when Russ gets the board and can immediately be on the break. OKC is at their best when they get running. So I can't see the bigs just letting him "have" all these rebounds for triple doubles, but that it's better for the team to run after a miss. Russ is a one man fast break.

[cnewby]

Id like to see the stats comparing shoting % off WB passes compared to the other MVP candidates. I bet theres a significant disparity.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by CubKings

With this uncontested rebound complaint, it's possible it's by design. Maybe OKC thinks they have a better advantage, which they probably do, when Russ gets the board and can immediately be on the break. OKC is at their best when they get running. So I can't see the bigs just letting him "have" all these rebounds for triple doubles, but that it's better for the team to run after a miss. Russ is a one man fast break.

That's a logical theory.

I wonder what the reason is for him to just completely leave his man and chase rebounds? Same thing? Knowing that if he does get it, they're off to the races?

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by EMD34

It's actually become a fairly significant story-line

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...ll_westbrooks/

Russell Westbrook averages a triple-double. Is he padding his stats?

https://medium.com/@crabdribbles/a-d...g-568d9378bea4

Nylon Calculus: Westbrook's triple-doubles, stat padding and team strategy

and any voter who understands the value of their vote will look at all available information.

I completely agree.

Whilst there's some wishy washy voters out there, they do understand the importance of efficiency. These are things that are discussed when talking about the MVP.

They had the smarts to put Kawhi in no. 2 last year to Steph Curry's crazy year. And that was largely on his efficiency as his numbers were not gaudy like some others.

[drobfan8]

Oh and that 57 point triple double was crazy.

Westbrook looks like he'll continue this run and I think it's leaning towards him getting it now. The run home is important.

Efficiency may be left at the door this season. The numbers are just becoming too strong.

[ninjacookies]

The logical arguments against Westbrook are nearly vanishing. Averaging a triple double, team in the postseason, scoring title, and finishing the year stronger than any of the 3 candidates by far.

When you have the opposing team's arena chanting MVP in a defeat, then you know you've wrapped it up. (inb4 b-b-but it was a lottery team)

Don't see any co-mvp incoming.

And once again, Vegas knew what they were doing with the Kawhi spreads weeks ago. The house is almost always smarter than the people despite how it appears on the surface.

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

When you have the opposing team's arena chanting MVP in a defeat, then you know you've wrapped it up. (inb4 b-b-but it was a lottery team)

Lol, it's not about them being a lottery team, it's about them being Orlando - what the hell else do they have to cheer for!

I do feel Harden is below Westbrook at this point, but Kawhi is being slept on a little.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

Lol, it's not about them being a lottery team, it's about them being Orlando - what the hell else do they have to cheer for!

I do feel Harden is below Westbrook at this point, but Kawhi is being slept on a little.

I actually like Orlando going forward. A ton of young, athletic talent...much like Denver. They just don't have the leadership or experience to know how to put it together right now.

Kawhi's cool, but he's still a distant 3rd for me, and has been for awhile now. I feel most of the argument for him was hinging on team success and grabbing the one seed...but he didn't finish the year as strong as he needed to to really make the statement. Did actually quite the opposite.

[drobfan8]

And I have no doubts we'll see some Kawhi rest days now that the no. 1 seed is gone.

I'd love him to get the MVP somehow still, but I don't see it happening.

Ninja what were these Kawhi spreads you were talking about?

I got on him before the season at juicy odds. The poor fella is going to finish top 3 in MVP and DPOY voting.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

And I have no doubts we'll see some Kawhi rest days now that the no. 1 seed is gone.

I'd love him to get the MVP somehow still, but I don't see it happening.

Ninja what were these Kawhi spreads you were talking about?

I got on him before the season at juicy odds. The poor fella is going to finish top 3 in MVP and DPOY voting.

The last spread I saw was -3xx-4xx about 2 weeks ago when he was making some major noise and the Spurs were rolling to that 1 spot.

It opened my eyes because, on the surface, I thought those odds were too good to be true. Then I remembered vegas oddsmakers work with statistical and historical algorithms that I can't even fathom...so I made sure to bet very small.