Westbrook in straight beast mode again...

[WalterAZ31]

This site is quickly turning into Reddit, I just log in every morning just to read all the moronic comments, trolling and gifs

already some great gems today from this thread and others, stuff like "Mike Trout isn't even that good"

[Chris P]

turning into Reddit, I just log in every morning just to read all the moronic comments, trolling and gifs

already some great gems today from this thread and others, stuff like "Mike Trout isn't even that good"

[/QUOTE]

Yep...welcome to the Westbrook thread

[Springerj23]

I will keep it going. Outstanding player, but the turnover rate has to take away from his triple double status. Had 10 TO's last night. 10!!! Quadruple double I guess, HAHA!!!

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Springerj23

I will keep it going. Outstanding player, but the turnover rate has to take away from his triple double status. Had 10 TO's last night. 10!!! Quadruple double I guess, HAHA!!!

He does turn the ball over a lot... but here's a list of a few guys in the league who have a higher turnover %:

LeBron James
James Harden
Jeff Teague
John Wall
Draymond Green
Ricky Rubio
Rajon Rondo

Those are just the all-star/near all-star/former all-star level guys on the list.

Westbrook actually ranks 105th in the league in T/O %. Not saying that's good, but he hasn't been as bad as some people seem to think.

The fact is that looking at raw turnovers is an ignorant way of determining who is a bad ballhandler. The top 10 list for most turnovers?:

1. Karl Malone* 4524
2. John Stockton* 4244
3. Kobe Bryant 4010
4. Jason Kidd 4003
5. Moses Malone* 3804
6. Isiah Thomas* 3682
7. Hakeem Olajuwon*3667
8. Patrick Ewing* 3537
9. Paul Pierce 3524
10. Magic Johnson* 3506

So by this logic, we should definitely take away from Stockton's all time Assists leader status. Magic's too... what a bum.

But really, a few good names on the list. The sad part is that half the people reading this still won't understand what I'm getting at here

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by tjforce

He does turn the ball over a lot... but here's a list of a few guys in the league who have a higher turnover %:

LeBron James
James Harden
Jeff Teague
John Wall
Draymond Green
Ricky Rubio
Rajon Rondo

Those are just the all-star/near all-star/former all-star level guys on the list.

Westbrook actually ranks 105th in the league in T/O %. Not saying that's good, but he hasn't been as bad as some people seem to think.

The fact is that looking at raw turnovers is an ignorant way of determining who is a bad ballhandler. The top 10 list for most turnovers?:

1. Karl Malone* 4524
2. John Stockton* 4244
3. Kobe Bryant 4010
4. Jason Kidd 4003
5. Moses Malone* 3804
6. Isiah Thomas* 3682
7. Hakeem Olajuwon*3667
8. Patrick Ewing* 3537
9. Paul Pierce 3524
10. Magic Johnson* 3506

So by this logic, we should definitely take away from Stockton's all time Assists leader status. Magic's too... what a bum.

But really, a few good names on the list. The sad part is that half the people reading this still won't understand what I'm getting at here

Nope, this will get ignored as most logical points do. They don't care about any of it..Russ just sucks period to them and they'll ignore every thing to bring him down because..who knows.."it's fun"

[volblorx8634]

Despite all the flaws in Westbrook's game (decision making, shot selection, high turnovers), it boggles my mind how he doesn't get credit for putting the Thunder where they are: in the playoff picture, within 1 game of the 5th seed. This team is literally nothing without him.

What's even scarier? He would legitimately be a top 2 or 3 player in the league if he had coaches that developed him into playing within a team system. All he knows is shoot to score or pass to a teammate in a position to score. Has no idea what it means to run an offensive system, and if he did, like I said, it would be scary.

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by tjforce

He does turn the ball over a lot... but here's a list of a few guys in the league who have a higher turnover %:

LeBron James
James Harden
Jeff Teague
John Wall
Draymond Green
Ricky Rubio
Rajon Rondo

Those are just the all-star/near all-star/former all-star level guys on the list.

Westbrook actually ranks 105th in the league in T/O %. Not saying that's good, but he hasn't been as bad as some people seem to think.

The fact is that looking at raw turnovers is an ignorant way of determining who is a bad ballhandler. The top 10 list for most turnovers?:

1. Karl Malone* 4524
2. John Stockton* 4244
3. Kobe Bryant 4010
4. Jason Kidd 4003
5. Moses Malone* 3804
6. Isiah Thomas* 3682
7. Hakeem Olajuwon*3667
8. Patrick Ewing* 3537
9. Paul Pierce 3524
10. Magic Johnson* 3506

So by this logic, we should definitely take away from Stockton's all time Assists leader status. Magic's too... what a bum.

But really, a few good names on the list. The sad part is that half the people reading this still won't understand what I'm getting at here

You've always got an answer for something but never paint the whole picture...
Can you show us their usage rates as well please?


I haven't paid attention to the past week of NBA, didn't even know they'd beaten Memphis (which is great). Not pleased with a loss to Minnesota though!

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

You've always got an answer for something but never paint the whole picture...
Can you show us their usage rates as well please?


I haven't paid attention to the past week of NBA, didn't even know they'd beaten Memphis (which is great). Not pleased with a loss to Minnesota though!

That's the exact point I'm trying to make, that *certain people* can't seem to figure out.

People point out that he turns the ball over a lot, which he does, I agree 100%. His high total is a function of that super high usage rate. When compared to others in the leauge, he does not turn the ball over at an exceptionally high rate compared to usage and a number of other top players in the league actually turn it over at a higher rate.

These are facts, not opinions. If you can disprove these facts, please do and I'll retract the incorrect statement.

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by tjforce

That's the exact point I'm trying to make, that *certain people* can't seem to figure out.

People point out that he turns the ball over a lot, which he does, I agree 100%. His high total is a function of that super high usage rate. When compared to others in the leauge, he does not turn the ball over at an exceptionally high rate compared to usage and a number of other top players in the league actually turn it over at a higher rate.

These are facts, not opinions. If you can disprove these facts, please do and I'll retract the incorrect statement.

I don't understand where you're going with this.
You provide an all time list of turnovers and state that you're providing facts, but your facts don't show their average per game or usage rate, things that would help to compare to Westbrook's high numbers.

You're not really providing facts, just numbers. So while you may be 'making a point' to some people, nobody's going to get it without appropriate context.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

I don't understand where you're going with this.
You provide an all time list of turnovers and state that you're providing facts, but your facts don't show their average per game or usage rate, things that would help to compare to Westbrook's high numbers.

You're not really providing facts, just numbers. So while you may be 'making a point' to some people, nobody's going to get it without appropriate context.

The main point I was trying to make was that his to% was lower than other current NBA stars. Side point was that if you look at leaders in raw turnovers, it's littered with all time greats, so maybe it's not the number most indicative of skill/talent.

Other people seemed to get it right away. Have I made it simple enough for you to understand this time?

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by tjforce

The main point I was trying to make was that his to% was lower than other current NBA stars. Side point was that if you look at leaders in raw turnovers, it's littered with all time greats, so maybe it's not the number most indicative of skill/talent.

Other people seemed to get it right away. Have I made it simple enough for you to understand this time?

So instead of taking on board that you should actually compare your numbers with Westbrook/go deeper with them, you give me attitude?
Are you always as arrogant as you have been regarding anything Westbrook?

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

So instead of taking on board that you should actually compare your numbers with Westbrook/go deeper with them, you give me attitude?
Are you always as arrogant as you have been regarding anything Westbrook?

I guess I just don't know how to dumb it down for you anymore.

If you'd like to do that research, be my guest, I don't need it to make a point that intelligent/unbiased adults can comprehend.

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by tjforce

I guess I just don't know how to dumb it down for you anymore.

If you'd like to do that research, be my guest, I don't need it to make a point that intelligent/unbiased adults can comprehend.

Well for a start, where did you get your numbers? I've had a quick google search and can only find that RW is 2nd in the league in TO per 36 min (with a closer gap to Harden than in TOPG) and Terrance Ross leads the league with the lowest TO%.
I'd like to see those players you listed.

I'd also like to see those all-time players you listed's TOPG, MPG, usage rate etc, to see how RW is tracking in comparison.

Your 'facts' leave a bit to be desired.

[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

Well for a start, where did you get your numbers? I've had a quick google search and can only find that RW leads the league in TO per 36 min and Terrance Ross leads the league with the lowest TO%.
I'd like to see those players you listed.

I'd also like to see those all-time players you listed's TOPG, MPG, usage rate etc, to see how RW is tracking in comparison.

Your 'facts' leave a bit to be desired.

It boggles my mind that Westbrook is the ONLY reason your team has any chance to make the playoffs, let alone isn't the laughing stock of the league.... and instead of celebrating and appreciating that fact, all you can do is bash the guy and criticize the obvious holes in his game that everyone can see.

Yes, we all know WB has a lot of turnovers. Yes, Westbrook needs to improve his shooting. Yes, Westbrook has a high usage rate, which partly accounts for his huge stat lines. We get it.

He also has a team that lost one of the top 5 players in the league on a pace to win 48 games. They won 55 games last year. That's impressive. You should be happy.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

Well for a start, where did you get your numbers? I've had a quick google search and can only find that RW is 2nd in the league in TO per 36 min (with a closer gap to Harden than in TOPG) and Terrance Ross leads the league with the lowest TO%.
I'd like to see those players you listed.

I'd also like to see those all-time players you listed's TOPG, MPG, usage rate etc, to see how RW is tracking in comparison.

Your 'facts' leave a bit to be desired.

2016-17 NBA Player Stats: Advanced | Basketball-Reference.com



Basketball-reference.com

It's a cool website where you can find out things like: Who leads the lead in scoring? Who leads the league in PER (among players who have play at least 20 mins this season)? Who leads the league in Assist %? And even other questions who's answers aren't Russell Westbrook.

I'm sure if you poke around a little bit it will be easy to find stats and metrics that paint RWB in a bad light. That's great. I've never said he's an NBA legend or even the best player on the planet right now. I just can't help but call out BS when I see it and can refute it with facts.

On a side note, your whole comparison with the other top 10 guys argument is just trying to poke holes in an argument that I never even tried to make. I never said that Westbrook belongs in the same category as the greats like Magic, Stockton and Malone; I was just using it to illustrate the point that looking at raw turnover numbers is not a good indicator of how bad someone is with the ball. So if you can refute that, I.E. prove that guys like Magic and Stockton were actually not that good because of all the turnovers, please enlighten me. I'd be very surprised.

[hairyangryfella]

I'm not sure if it's because I'm on iPad, but I was on that site and it wouldn't show me anything other than the top 20...

[tjforce]

Yea it minimizes on my iPhone too. Should be a button to expand leaderboard.

[tjforce]

Another monster triple double and a win.

The team needed it too since they almost fell apart down the stretch.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Another monster triple double and a win.

The team needed it too since they almost fell apart down the stretch.

Que crickets until the next loss

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Chris P

Que crickets until the next loss

From now on I declare the blatant haterism "Fake News" and refuse to acknowledge it!

[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Another monster triple double and a win.

The team needed it too since they almost fell apart down the stretch.

A hush settles over the trolls.......

[elee712]

Originally Posted by deemsterz33

A hush settles over the trolls.......

You and your sidekick are something else. You hate seeing people being critical but at the same time you're instigating for it to happen.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by elee712

You and your sidekick are something else. You hate seeing people being critical but at the same time you're instigating for it to happen.

Cmon...you know it doesnt matter..they'll do it regardless...me..i dont mind people being critical of russ..theres a difference between critical and straight up hating and trolling. To say crap like "what russ is doing doesnt mean anything" "russ is overrated" etc...thats just trolling and these guys that "criticize" russ just so happen to hide whenever russ does good and nothing anyone is gonna say or do will stop them.

[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by elee712

You and your sidekick are something else. You hate seeing people being critical but at the same time you're instigating for it to happen.

I don't mind people being critical. I love a good discussion.

But I do mind when people throw shade with nothing factual to back their claims up. My post was calling out BS, as I see it.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by deemsterz33

I don't mind people being critical. I love a good discussion.

But I do mind when people throw shade with nothing factual to back their claims up.

Exactly...and thats what most of the hate is on this thread..lazy assertions and pure disdain for whatever reason.