Larry Legend. Better than MJ, Kobe or LeBron?

[markinca]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Again...I ask anyone....how can you simultaneously marginalize Kobe's accomplishments whilst building up Bird?

I'm not saying Bird above Kobe is wrong or vice versa...I'm just intrigued by some of the reasoning.

'Kobe's defense in his later stages was overrated'. >12x all-defensive selections given out as consolation prizes?

'Bird's defense was vastly underrated and appreciated..it didn't show up on stat sheets or awards.' >'The Man' keeping Larry down? o wait...

'Larry was better at rebounding' Well yeah...he also played an entirely different position. No doubt he was a great and one of the best, but that's like saying MJ isn't better than half the people on the list because he couldn't secure 10 boards a game as a sg. Or that Shaq should be ranked lower than Nash because he couldn't drop 10 dimes a game.



Larry was a beast, and so was Kobe. There is no marginalizing either. Because they're both all time greats and dominated the league for a stretch.

For this, you can look at some numbers.

Bird was in the top 20 in defensive rating 9 seasons. He was in the top 20 in defensive win shares 10 seasons (including 4 times at #1). He was in the top 20 in defensive box plus minus for 9 seasons. His career was only 13 seasons.

Kobe was in the top 20 in defensive rating once. He was in the top 20 in defensive win shares 5 times. He was never in the top 20 in defensive box plus minus. His career was 20 seasons.

Now, from this I'm not going to automatically conclude that Bird was hands down the better defender. But as far as I know, Defensive Rating, Defensive Win Shares, and Defensive Box Plus/Minus are all calculated differently. Yet they ALL agree that Bird was an excellent defender.

And yes, I understand that Kobe was voted to more all-defense teams.

But I think it would be more than a fair statement to say that at _worst_, Bird was Kobe's equal defensively. To say that Kobe was miles ahead of Bird defensively is just not really a defensible position.

Add to that that Bird was a far better well-rounded offensive player than Kobe, and I don't think it's hard for many to come to the conclusion that Bird was better than Kobe.

For me personally, it's close - I'd have Bird at #7 all time and Kobe at #11, so it's not like we're far apart. But yes, I do feel Bird was a better player.