Purchased a RAW '76 Payton...problem and advise

BoxingRobes · 02-24-2016, 05:06 PM

I recently purchased a raw 1976 Topps Walter Payton. Listing showed a copy in - for a raw card of his - high quality condition. Centering is good enugh, corners and edging still in good shape. Told card was in NRMT to MT shape and (specifically stated in the listing) "Any markings on the card are on the case the card is in and/or on the scanner."

Well...I received it today and while the card looks in great shape and it is no doubt the card in the picture on the listing, this is what I found after taking off the screw case.

I usually buy high slabbed vintage card, and probably got a little too overzealous thinking I could get a great raw copy. I'm not usually one to buy and return, but I feel this is a case where I think I need to return and get a refund.

What a boner killer.

Thoughts?

chewycatfish99 · 02-24-2016, 05:38 PM

Did they have a scan of the back? Although they state the "All markings are on the case" comment, I'm sure you know its commonly posted on most listings.I don't know how much you paid but if I was in your position, and they had a picture of the back, I wouldn't return. I've had the same happen to me with vintage, so I also try to stick to slabs. In my experience with raw vintage there can be so many little flaws that are hard to catch unless you really go over the pics in detail (let alone trimming). If they didn't have scans of the back then I'd say go for the return.

BoxingRobes · 02-24-2016, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewycatfish99

Did they have a scan of the back? Although they state the "All markings are on the case" comment, I'm sure you know its commonly posted on most listings.I don't know how much you paid but if I was in your position, and they had a picture of the back, I wouldn't return. I've had the same happen to me with vintage, so I also try to stick to slabs. In my experience with raw vintage there can be so many little flaws that are hard to catch unless you really go over the pics in detail (let alone trimming). If they didn't have scans of the back then I'd say go for the return.

They did. I sent several messages to the guy, asking for a closer examination...never received a response. Took the plunge anyway.

While I know a ton of listings have that disclaimer on it, I think regardless of the picture, if you tell me its near mint or mint and that any markings you see are on the case, and thats not the case, its worthy of a return...I don't often do it, but I sent a few bucks over market for the raw card with the idea it was clean.

After reviewing some of the seller's reviews, there is the occasional issue of a card not going to the buyer in the promised condition. Good seller, but the occasional hiccup, FWIW.

Also curious how a mark like this on the back would effect grading? Anyone with any experience in this regard?

Coventry6546 · 02-24-2016, 06:50 PM

Both the printing imperfection and stain appear to be visible in the listing. Any other serious flaws, centering looks pretty good, not sure how corners/edges are. Any major scratches?

BoxingRobes · 02-24-2016, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coventry6546

Both the printing imperfection and stain appear to be visible in the listing. Any other serious flaws, centering looks pretty good, not sure how corners/edges are. Any major scratches?

Nope.

Edges and corners are good. Comparable to my Payton PSA 8. No major scratches otherwise. Front-side surface is good. I don't really care about the printing imperfection...the stain though, is my qualm.

I'm curious how that stain would pop up in a grading. How much it'd kill the grade. I'm seeing PSA 7's of Payton with some outrageously bad centering and/or very very soft corners.

With that said, this exact card has been listed twice in the past month. Not sure why it was relisted, but its got my attention.

chris43 · 02-24-2016, 10:13 PM

Its always risky when buying vintage that isn't graded. If the card isn't at least NRMT or better the seller did not describe the item accurately which they are required to do by Ebay.

BoxingRobes · 02-25-2016, 05:24 PM

Spoke with the seller. Said he was unaware of the stain, apologized, and we negotiated a reduced auction price to something more reasonable for a flawed raw card.

Definitely happy with that result.

MasterPattie · 02-25-2016, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingRobes

Spoke with the seller. Said he was unaware of the stain, apologized, and we negotiated a reduced auction price to something more reasonable for a flawed raw card.

Definitely happy with that result.

That was decent of him to do that.

goodole13 · 02-25-2016, 05:37 PM

Good on both of you guys communicating, and getting something worked out. Communication is key.

discostu · 02-25-2016, 05:42 PM

To me, a "stain" is a post-consumer touched flaw. The brown spot here simply appears to be an imperfection in the original cardstock...fairly common for ragboard.

BoxingRobes · 02-25-2016, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discostu

To me, a "stain" is a post-consumer touched flaw. The brown spot here simply appears to be an imperfection in the original cardstock...fairly common for ragboard.

I gave it another look, even busted out the ol magnifying glass, because I was insanely curious. I'm pretty certain that what you're saying is the case.

smackvay · 02-25-2016, 08:46 PM

as far as grading that is a HUGE killer
psa would stick a qualifier on it
beckett probably wouldn't grade it if I was guessing

Bostonsports1 · 02-25-2016, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smackvay

as far as grading that is a HUGE killer
psa would stick a qualifier on it
beckett probably wouldn't grade it if I was guessing

Beckett will grade it, this will just hurt the surface grade. PSA likely would give it a ST qualifier.

02-24-2016, 05:06 PM	#1
BoxingRobes Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 94	Purchased a RAW '76 Payton...problem and advise I recently purchased a raw 1976 Topps Walter Payton. Listing showed a copy in - for a raw card of his - high quality condition. Centering is good enugh, corners and edging still in good shape. Told card was in NRMT to MT shape and (specifically stated in the listing) "Any markings on the card are on the case the card is in and/or on the scanner." Well...I received it today and while the card looks in great shape and it is no doubt the card in the picture on the listing, this is what I found after taking off the screw case. I usually buy high slabbed vintage card, and probably got a little too overzealous thinking I could get a great raw copy. I'm not usually one to buy and return, but I feel this is a case where I think I need to return and get a refund. What a boner killer. Thoughts?

02-24-2016, 10:13 PM	#6
chris43 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: TN Posts: 1,156	Its always risky when buying vintage that isn't graded. If the card isn't at least NRMT or better the seller did not describe the item accurately which they are required to do by Ebay. __________________ Collects: UK Wildcats basketball players (prefer UK uniform but also buy some NBA)

02-25-2016, 05:37 PM	#9
goodole13 Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 5,221 goodole13 goodole13	Good on both of you guys communicating, and getting something worked out. Communication is key. __________________ PC: RAMS CONTENDERS ROOKIE TICKETS & DII CONTENDERS ROOKIE TICKETS SHOW-OFF THREADS --- *RAMS TICKETS* https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1285326 ***** DII TICKETS** https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1399475 https://sportscardalbum.com/u/goodole13

02-25-2016, 05:42 PM	#10
discostu Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 7,990	To me, a "stain" is a post-consumer touched flaw. The brown spot here simply appears to be an imperfection in the original cardstock...fairly common for ragboard. __________________ Every day I start to ooze.

02-25-2016, 08:46 PM	#12
smackvay Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: west virginia Posts: 11,947	as far as grading that is a HUGE killer psa would stick a qualifier on it beckett probably wouldn't grade it if I was guessing __________________ SUPERCOLLECTOR LOOKING FOR PAT WHITE CARDS NEED SILVER? HAVE SILVER? PM ME EITHER WAY

02-24-2016, 05:38 PM	#2
chewycatfish99 Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: IL Posts: 8 thannon12184	Did they have a scan of the back? Although they state the "All markings are on the case" comment, I'm sure you know its commonly posted on most listings.I don't know how much you paid but if I was in your position, and they had a picture of the back, I wouldn't return. I've had the same happen to me with vintage, so I also try to stick to slabs. In my experience with raw vintage there can be so many little flaws that are hard to catch unless you really go over the pics in detail (let alone trimming). If they didn't have scans of the back then I'd say go for the return.

02-24-2016, 06:50 PM	#4
Coventry6546 Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,764 Coventry6546	Both the printing imperfection and stain appear to be visible in the listing. Any other serious flaws, centering looks pretty good, not sure how corners/edges are. Any major scratches?

02-25-2016, 05:24 PM	#7
BoxingRobes Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 94	Spoke with the seller. Said he was unaware of the stain, apologized, and we negotiated a reduced auction price to something more reasonable for a flawed raw card. Definitely happy with that result.