Wonky Looking Tony Gwynn 1997 Bowman’s Best auto on eBay

[Noles939913]

Not only does the autograph look way off I’ve never seen one signed so high up on the card. I have seen some of these atomic refractors that are missing the autograph even though they have the Topps Certified Autograph Issue stamp so maybe someone got ahold of one and forged the autograph:



https://ebay.us/m/5M8gzu

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Not only does the autograph look way off I’ve never seen one signed so high up on the card. I have seen some of these atomic refractors that are missing the autograph even though they have the Topps Certified Autograph Issue stamp so maybe someone got ahold of one and forged the autograph:



https://ebay.us/m/5M8gzu

Tons of these have fake autos. Many players, all parallels.

[PuddleMonkey]

I need more Tony Gwynn autos. Real ones.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

I need more Tony Gwynn autos. Real ones.

Collect harder!

[rnocards]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Not only does the autograph look way off I’ve never seen one signed so high up on the card. I have seen some of these atomic refractors that are missing the autograph even though they have the Topps Certified Autograph Issue stamp so maybe someone got ahold of one and forged the autograph:



https://ebay.us/m/5M8gzu

That's the exact card and auto that shows up on TCDB:

https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/si...-29-Tony-Gwynn

If you want, maybe you can ask the eBay seller Hoody's Collectibles if that's his card on TCDB, and vice versa, if you have an account on TCDB, maybe you can message drifter2021 and ask him if he can confirm that the eBay card is his card? Could be the same owner.

Gwynn's autos have changed through out the years, going through several significant changes. I'm currently trying to collect a "rainbow" of his 1980s Era autos... which is amazing how he changes it from early 80s, to mid 80s, to late 80s. Then 90s comes along, and completely changes it too. Just look at what happens to the "G" letter as it evolves over time from 80s to 90s.

[Sonnys88]

There were uncut sheets of unsigned 1997 and 1998 Bowman's Best Autograph cards sold in recent years. Most were the refractor and atomic refractor versions.

No doubt, some were cut up and fraudulently signed.

There are examples of the fraudulent cards getting slabbed / graded, so even the grading companies can be fooled by them.

So, definitely buyer beware on the 1997 and 1998 Bowman's Best Autograph cards.

[DadofTwins]

Looks fake to me.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Not only does the autograph look way off I’ve never seen one signed so high up on the card. I have seen some of these atomic refractors that are missing the autograph even though they have the Topps Certified Autograph Issue stamp so maybe someone got ahold of one and forged the autograph:



https://ebay.us/m/5M8gzu

Agreed on the placement. Though Gwynn did have several somewhat different autographs. He signed a lot throughout his career, so you will see variances. This does look like one of his autos.

[DrSicPkl]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

I need more Tony Gwynn autos. Real ones.

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Attachment 571051

Collect harder!

Pretty sure I read somewhere that PuddleMonkey collects harder than us...

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Agreed on the placement. Though Gwynn did have several somewhat different autographs. He signed a lot throughout his career, so you will see variances. This does look like one of his autos.

I politely disagree. This is a real base version (in my opinion) and the autos are very different.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/22659580219...Bk9SR-ir1JOUZw

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by DrSicPkl

Pretty sure I read somewhere that PuddleMonkey collects harder than us...

Well I do have 6 Gwynn autos, but then again who doesn't? The real test of a collector is how many on card Puckett's you have.

[rnocards]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

Well I do have 6 Gwynn autos, but then again who doesn't? The real test of a collector is how many on card Puckett's you have.

Yeah, he did sign a lot. 6 Gwynn autos is pretty good for a normal collector of baseball memorabilia in general... I think I got more than 10x that amount (almost 70 by my last count), but that's just because I specifically PC Gwynn autos, as a fan of him, so I'm not just a normal or average collector on Gwynn. I specifically PC his autos more than anything .

But, interestingly, I don't have a single Puckett auto yet, even though I'm also a HOF collector in general. Just never got to it, I guess.

With Gwynn... I'm trying to go earlier and earlier. Just picked up a 1982 team autographed ball, where Gwynn signed it as a rookie. First time, I've ever obtained his rookie season auto, which I'm excited about!

[Tom Oates]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

Well I do have 6 Gwynn autos, but then again who doesn't? The real test of a collector is how many on card Puckett's you have.

On card... Just one!

[rnocards]

Looking at Gwynn's 1997 Bowman's Best autos on TCDB... I see three "G" configurations.

1. The top of the G letter goes up high, and curves:
https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/si...-29-Tony-Gwynn

2. The eBay one... the top of the G letter doesn't go up high at all, but does curve:
https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/si...-29-Tony-Gwynn

3. The top of the G letter goes up high, but doesn't curve at all:
https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/si...-29-Tony-Gwynn


If it is assumed that all 3 are authentic pack certified autos from 1997, then it does seem a little strange as to why Gwynn would change that configuration on the G. But, I have seen several autos from his other years, where the G does show these various different configurations, some stick up, and others stick and curve, and others just curve.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

I politely disagree. This is a real base version (in my opinion) and the autos are very different.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/22659580219...Bk9SR-ir1JOUZw

All good. All I’m saying is, he did sign like that also.

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by rnocards

Yeah, he did sign a lot. 6 Gwynn autos is pretty good for a normal collector of baseball memorabilia in general... I think I got more than 10x that amount (almost 70 by my last count), but that's just because I specifically PC Gwynn autos, as a fan of him, so I'm not just a normal or average collector on Gwynn. I specifically PC his autos more than anything .

But, interestingly, I don't have a single Puckett auto yet, even though I'm also a HOF collector in general. Just never got to it, I guess.

With Gwynn... I'm trying to go earlier and earlier. Just picked up a 1982 team autographed ball, where Gwynn signed it as a rookie. First time, I've ever obtained his rookie season auto, which I'm excited about!

Nearly 70 is crazy, that's a lot of Gwynn's. He doesn't get nearly the respect he should. I forgot I have the 2008 Legendary Cuts /25 Classic Signatures Gwynn.

[PuddleMonkey]

Originally Posted by Tom Oates

On card... Just one!

That's a sweet one. I think I have 3 or 4 on card as part of sets.

[rnocards]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

Nearly 70 is crazy, that's a lot of Gwynn's. He doesn't get nearly the respect he should. I forgot I have the 2008 Legendary Cuts /25 Classic Signatures Gwynn.

Yeah, I'm kinda "preoccupied" with him, having grown up watching him play, but never got to personally meet him. When he passed away, he left a lot of autos in the market, so there is no shortage on that, but I do try and focus on his gem mint conditioned autos, which makes up the majority of his autos in my collection.

Recently, I've been branching out to more specific variations, including his personalized inscribed autos, and also his oldest autos. One of my goals is to have JSA LOA Era authentication of each of his example autos, year by year, in the 1980s....so that I can see the progression in how the auto dramatically changes all through out the 80s. I may do the same for 90s and beyond, not sure yet, but I'm specifically much more focused on the 80s, where his autos are less available.

[cfern023]

Originally Posted by rnocards

Yeah, I'm kinda "preoccupied" with him, having grown up watching him play, but never got to personally meet him. When he passed away, he left a lot of autos in the market, so there is no shortage on that, but I do try and focus on his gem mint conditioned autos, which makes up the majority of his autos in my collection.

Recently, I've been branching out to more specific variations, including his personalized inscribed autos, and also his oldest autos. One of my goals is to have JSA LOA Era authentication of each of his example autos, year by year, in the 1980s....so that I can see the progression in how the auto dramatically changes all through out the 80s. I may do the same for 90s and beyond, not sure yet, but I'm specifically much more focused on the 80s, where his autos are less available.

Honestly, a Topps autograph run from his rookie to retirement would be incredible. I feel like with time and patience it can be achieved and present nicely.

[DrSicPkl]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

Well I do have 6 Gwynn autos, but then again who doesn't? The real test of a collector is how many on card Puckett's you have.

Sadly I have neither Gwynn nor Puckett. Figure I need to sell 27 Blyleven's and 31 Eckersley's before I have enough to bag a Puckett.

[rnocards]

Originally Posted by cfern023

Honestly, a Topps autograph run from his rookie to retirement would be incredible. I feel like with time and patience it can be achieved and present nicely.

Yeah, I may do that. I don't specifically limit it to Topps, but I may end up stretching the year by year autos to his retirement, and beyond, to his death. For sure, I want to now cover all the 80s, and I think I may have already achieved it... I just need JSA LOA Era date authentication to prove it.

So far... I have, perhaps, the hardest and most expensive years already covered:

1982 Debut Rookie Season: Auto Auth Ball with JSA's Auction House LOA, which specifically mentions the Gwynn signature as being his rookie, but I will try to further upgrade it to the standard JSA LOA. Here is a pic:




1983 Topps Rookie Card: Auto Auth with JSA LOA Era as 1983.
JSA cert# ZZ91316 (https://www.spenceloa.com/verify-aut...Number=ZZ91316)
There is a small mistake in the LOA, stating that the marker color is blue, when in fact, it is purple, so I'll need to have them fix that.


1984 Topps Card: Auto Auth with JSA LOA Era as 1984.
JSA cert# ZZ91318 (https://www.spenceloa.com/verify-aut...Number=ZZ91318).


I also have many others in the 1980s, I just don't know for certain in which years they were signed. I've been figuring it out slowly by comparing them to the known pack certified autos, and also guessing which ones may have been transition or bridge autos, until I get JSA LOA Era authentication to confirm it for me.

As far as I know, these are the only two pack certified autos in the 1980s:

1986 TCMA:
https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/si...NNO-Tony-Gwynn

1988 Star:
https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/si...n-1-Tony-Gwynn

So, for the rest of the 80s (85, 87, 89), when I say transition or bridge autos, I am referring to this strange one here, which if authentic, then I'm guessing it could be a 1987 era auto coinciding with the release of the 1987 Topps card. Here is a pic:



Seller said that he bought it from a local card show a few years ago from a dealer who worked at Topps for 10 years, and had a bunch of on-card IP autos from players that signed cards for Topps when he worked there. So, I'll find out when JSA looks at it.

The reason why I say "transition" is because if you look at the G letter of this auto, the configuration kinda shows the S-shaped configuration of the 1986 certified TCMA, but the rest of the letters do not have the smooth low amplitude of the 86 TCMA. Instead, the auto shows a rugged high amplitude of the letters similar to the 1988 certified Star, though the G in the 88 Star had changed shape, and no longer an S-shaped G of 86 TCMA. So... I'm guessing maybe this is an 1987 transition or bridge auto.

Anyways, I'll let JSA figure all this out for me. Sorry to OP if I highjacked your 97 Bowman thread...

[quackhead]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

Well I do have 6 Gwynn autos, but then again who doesn't? The real test of a collector is how many on card Puckett's you have.

I have one but its TTM version.


Gwynn has so many versions of his autograph, I think he did it to keep people from trying to fake his autograph. He was very generous in giving out his autograph at Padres games and local signing events.

[rnocards]

That Bowman ended up going for $460. I chose not to bid... but ended up adding other Gwynn autos since then.

[rnocards]

Originally Posted by quackhead

I have one but its TTM version.


Gwynn has so many versions of his autograph, I think he did it to keep people from trying to fake his autograph. He was very generous in giving out his autograph at Padres games and local signing events.

Yeah, he had many versions, especially the changes to the G letter.

Here is another weird one I picked up a few days ago:



I'm not happy about the white streaks on the "T", but what got me intrigued about this auto was again the "G", and how he merges it with the "y" of his first name, which I thought was odd. If it is authentic, then I don't know why he would do that, because there is plenty of space on the card for him to shorten the last name. At the same time, it would lend credibility to authenticity, because why would a faker merge a G with the y when that is not what you usually see on a Gwynn auto. I have some autos in my collection where his G touches the y, but I had never seen one yet where the G eats the y like that.

Also, since that is a 1990 Score card, that must be one of his earliest G shape autos in the 1990s, very likely a carryover from 1989, because very soon he would change it again to the more familiar 6-shape G that you see dominate his autos in the 90s and beyond. Though, I just came across another weird G a couple of days ago, from his later career years, that has been fascinating me for the past day, but I don't want to put an image of it here, because I havn't bought it yet, and I'm afraid someone else might do that...

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by rnocards

That Bowman ended up going for $460. I chose not to bid... but ended up adding other Gwynn autos since then.

Seems like it’s questionable authenticity scared off quite a few others as well as $460 seems really low for an Atomic Refractor auto.