SGC Delays

[Giuls21]

Is anyone else experiencing submissions going well past 20 business days?

[towerymt]

Check here in GRADING:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...60751&page=212

[atk825]

Originally Posted by Giuls21

Is anyone else experiencing submissions going well past 20 business days?

Last I checked on Boca subs towards the end of May, they still had subs from April not in post grading.

[salsdali]

received at Boca May 2
delivered back to me today (June 9)

[inaka]

Yes, I'm seeing abut 20-25 business days from the time they receive the order until the time they ship it back out.

I have a current order with SGC that was entered into their system on 05-14-25. This Thursday will be the 20th business day. Fingers crossed.

SGC's Gemrate numbers haven't spiked, so this leads me to believe that Collector's has done some tinkering. Most likely, they have either moved vintage grading staff to PSA or they have the experienced SGC graders training PSA newbie graders to help bolster PSA's inconsistent vintage grading as of late, resulting in longer turnaround times.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by inaka

SGC's Gemrate numbers haven't spiked, so this leads me to believe that Collector's has done some tinkering. Most likely, they have either moved vintage grading staff to PSA or they have the experienced SGC graders training PSA newbie graders to help bolster PSA's inconsistent vintage grading as of late, resulting in longer turnaround times.

My theory is Collectors wants SGC to have a 1 month turnaround time. Having a 1 month backlog is more productive than grading day to day. You can maximize each graders work capacity and have no down time in case there are no cards to grade. The 1 month supply makes things more stable for SGC, but stinks for us. You can also have less grader putting out the same monthly grading numbers. Pretty sure SGC has less graders now than it did a few months ago.

Sent in a 30 card order today and will have another one sent out next week. The more orders I send in, the quicker the return will appear.

[inaka]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Sent in a 30 card order today and will have another one sent out next week. The more orders I send in, the quicker the return will appear.

That's so funny, as I'm doing the same thing. I'm sending in smaller orders (like 5-15 cards) every 2-3 weeks, instead of sitting on them for a larger order.

This way I have more returns with more orders in the pipeline.

[Scottish Punk]

I don't think Collectors is strategically setting up turn around times for SGC. That seems like a whole lot of work and thought for nothing. I think the simpler explanation is that Collectors is using SGC resources for PSA. Whether that is putting SGC graders on vintage PSA for a little bit, cross training SGC graders to PSA standards, or re-configuring SGC processes to mirror PSA. All of these introduce delays. When PSA flips the switch and starts pushing SGC brand out, the transition will have the ground work done. I do agree, I also wouldn't be surprised if there was some SGC grader attrition. Collectors may not be reflling those roles.

[bsavidge83]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

I don't think Collectors is strategically setting up turn around times for SGC. That seems like a whole lot of work and thought for nothing. I think the simpler explanation is that Collectors is using SGC resources for PSA. Whether that is putting SGC graders on vintage PSA for a little bit, cross training SGC graders to PSA standards, or re-configuring SGC processes to mirror PSA. All of these introduce delays. When PSA flips the switch and starts pushing SGC brand out, the transition will have the ground work done. I do agree, I also wouldn't be surprised if there was some SGC grader attrition. Collectors may not be reflling those roles.

Could be.

Simplest explanation... Tcg folks have lost their minds and overwhelmed PSA with junk for the last six months. Same thing sports card collectors did in 2020. People are sick of the wait time and turned to SGC and now they are gummed up. Same thing in 2020. SGC just feels it second. Only way out of this is for tcg grading to slow, which unfortunately I don't see happening.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by bsavidge83

Could be.

Simplest explanation... Tcg folks have lost their minds and overwhelmed PSA with junk for the last six months. Same thing sports card collectors did in 2020. People are sick of the wait time and turned to SGC and now they are gummed up. Same thing in 2020. SGC just feels it second. Only way out of this is for tcg grading to slow, which unfortunately I don't see happening.

I would normally say the same thing. I expected SGC numbers to be the normal amount or higher this past month. They were down. So I suspect something else eternally happening. If you want to look on the simpler, bright side. Maybe it is as simple as a grader or two have taken a long vacation and they were short staffed. Or doing some upgrades to their processes to allow for better efficiencies in the long run. This month's numbers will be telling to see this was a blip or a trend.

Sure would be nice to get an update from Peter. The National will be here before we know it.

[bsavidge83]

Good point Scottish. I didn't even look at the numbers! Just assumed they were high!

[NormHullTX]

According to Bobbles and Ballcards, Collectors is ending group submitter discounts. Unsure if this will affect Boca Subs or not.

https://youtu.be/QoYurlfFh5Q?si=rZ89Ha8IbGtCudhP

[brev87]

Originally Posted by NormHullTX

According to Bobbles and Ballcards, Collectors is ending group submitter discounts. Unsure if this will affect Boca Subs or not.

https://youtu.be/QoYurlfFh5Q?si=rZ89Ha8IbGtCudhP

Interesting. And apparently, PSA is moving into the SGC Boca office

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by NormHullTX

According to Bobbles and Ballcards, Collectors is ending group submitter discounts. Unsure if this will affect Boca Subs or not.

https://youtu.be/QoYurlfFh5Q?si=rZ89Ha8IbGtCudhP

This feels like another poopy move for Collectors on the SGC brand. Good way to start winding down demand. Bulk submitter will have to charge more and the delta gets closer to PSA prices. Less demand should speed up turnarounds. I really don't feel like SGC will be around this time next year. I hope I am wrong.

[bojesphob]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

This feels like another poopy move for Collectors on the SGC brand. Good way to start winding down demand. Bulk submitter will have to charge more and the delta gets closer to PSA prices. Less demand should speed up turnarounds. I really don't feel like SGC will be around this time next year. I hope I am wrong.

That's a story as old as corporations have been around, right? Buy our your competition, absorb the customers into your main brand, then phase out the bought company. With the way PSA operates, this purchase was to keep SGC from merging with another competitor that would then be a legitimate threat to their business. Once that threat is gone, it's just a matter of winding down operations in the purchased unit. Sometimes it's less about increasing your market share than it is about reducing the ability of consumers to go elsewhere with that market share.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by bojesphob

That's a story as old as corporations have been around, right? Buy our your competition, absorb the customers into your main brand, then phase out the bought company. With the way PSA operates, this purchase was to keep SGC from merging with another competitor that would then be a legitimate threat to their business. Once that threat is gone, it's just a matter of winding down operations in the purchased unit. Sometimes it's less about increasing your market share than it is about reducing the ability of consumers to go elsewhere with that market share.

Agreed. I have been on both sides of a larger company buying the company I was working for. The mantra of "everything is status quo" is always there at the beginning. Than departments are merged, contracts ended, etc. When the back end integration is complete, the bought company has their logos removed from letterheads.

The only part I disagree with and I stated this before. I don't think PSA bought SGC because they were scared of competition. I think it was a fast way to gain more graders and a Florida office. PSA's biggest threat is capacity. If they ever want to lower prices, they will need to be able to do 2 million cards a month.

[tmoore_25]

I haven't seen Bobbles' video yet but I read a Facebook message of his and I agree with what many others are saying. It seems like Collectors is taking another step in getting rid of SGC.

1. Buy the competitor.
2. Set up shop right next door.
3. Reduce demand by increasing prices and removing incentives.
4. Shut down competitor.
5. Absorb employees.

Why take away the incentives offered to the bulk submitters of SGC but not those offered to PSA? I think that is one of the most telling actions yet.

[CorndogWasp]

Yeah they are gonna slowly make SGC "not worth it" until it dies. Its to slowly turn anti-psa customers into real customers. You cant just shut SGC down now or the anti-psa will flock together to a new service. You have to slowly chip at their flock.

Obv.

[bojesphob]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

Agreed. I have been on both sides of a larger company buying the company I was working for. The mantra of "everything is status quo" is always there at the beginning. Than departments are merged, contracts ended, etc. When the back end integration is complete, the bought company has their logos removed from letterheads.

The only part I disagree with and I stated this before. I don't think PSA bought SGC because they were scared of competition. I think it was a fast way to gain more graders and a Florida office. PSA's biggest threat is capacity. If they ever want to lower prices, they will need to be able to do 2 million cards a month.

Oh, yeah, I wasn't trying to insinuate they were scared of competition, more that they wanted less competition. Getting more graders and capacity is definitely a bonus for them, for sure, but if they keep SGC from merging with another company and taking all business that went to SGC, that's an added bonus to the situation. I'm sure when Microsoft bought out all of those gaming studios that made X-Box games, they weren't worried about competition, per se, but it definitely helped their in house dev teams not having to worry about competing games.

[inaka]

You guys might be right about SGC being phased out, but I'm an SGC guy, and here's my brief moment of optimism. Collector's could be phasing out these smaller independent partnerships with bulk indy SGC submitters because they may include SGC as part of the Gamestop submissions (since the infrastructure is now already in place), and they can't have old independent bulk sub deals undercutting that.

Don't forget, Collector's bought SGC in February of 2024.
COMC announced direct submissions to SGC from COMC in December of 2024, well after Collector's bought SGC.

Collector's could have killed that deal too if they knew SGC was a dead soon-to-be-phased out brand, but they didn't. So it's possible Collector's plan is to get the ball rolling with PSA partnerships and then phase in SGC to programs like COMC direct grading, or even Gamestop and eBay direct grading after they have worked out the kinks. And all of this happens in Boca, which is why PSA has a new location launching there.

If Collector's was phasing SGC out, it also seems they would just take over the current SGC building and make it a PSA site, and not start a launch a new location in the same complex, but again, not sure. That might be temporary for any transition, or to expand it if/when PSA takes the reins.

Side note, everyone talks about how PSA is the 800-pound gorilla that can't be stopped. Well, to me, the only way they could be stopped is by making the catastrophic blunder of phasing out SGC.

With more grading companies out there, there's more brand choice, but Collector's still gets my money via SGC. If SGC is gone, they no longer will, and I'm not alone. Even the Bobbles' video guy said the same thing.

I'd move to CGC or even back to Beckett since both offer vintage grading and on-card auto authentication too (CGC via JSA.). And what's been stated before, even PSA knows that most customers don't grade with both PSA and SGC, they choose one over the other and often dislike the other brand.

If PSA fades out SCG, the biggest winner will in all of this won't be PSA, it will be Beckett, as it gives them life support and opens the door for someone to either buy Beckett and or internally give them an opportunity to turn things around.

In fact, I found a video taken in the future showing CGC, PSA, Beckett, and SGC all hearing the news that SGC will be phrased out and become part of PSA:



That's Beckett in the middle.

[NormHullTX]

Confirmed by Boca Subs, their discount is going away too. $18 for 1-9 cards, $17 for 10+ cards.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

I don't think PSA bought SGC because they were scared of competition. I think it was a fast way to gain more graders and a Florida office.

This.............i said it when they bought SGC,it was a great move for PSA and SGC........but in the end we loose....SGC will in the end just be PSA florida most likely grading all Pre war-the end of paper cards say 91 or so.once the switch is flipped all they need to do is start using PSA slabs instead of SGC slabs.

[tmoore_25]

I really hope that Collectors plan is not to kill or absorb SGC into PSA. I have a 48 Bowman set, 1888 Allen & Ginter Worlds Smokers set, and other partial Allen & Ginter sets that are solely graded by SGC. I am always looking for an opportunity to upgrade but I can't do that if SGC doesn't exist.

I am one of the oddballs who does grade with both, but I do have more SGC than PSA and will continue to use both depending on how I feel at the time that I do my submission. I just don't see why Collectors would eliminate bulk submitters by charging them the same rate as a regular submitter and not do the same with PSA unless there was an ulterior motive. They have to know that bulk submitters help save check in time and allow for faster turnaround time, which leads to more profits by getting them out the door faster. That is one of the pros for SGC and they just took it away.

As for setting up shop next door to SGC, it makes perfect sense. Get all of PSA's processes and equipment in place, shut down SGC and bring over their graders, train them in the PSA way, and put them to work. They are probably waiting for the lease to expire on SGC's office. My office is doing the same thing. Our staff has gotten smaller, and it no longer makes sense to pay for an office that holds 10 when only 4 people work there. They are shutting the office down at the end of the lease and having us work remotely.

[hammerva]

So what is worse, a grading company slowly dying because a bigger monster took them over (SGC) and made it worse to make it killable or a grading company slowly dying because it was just damn incompetent (Beckett)