Messi 2004-05 Mega Cracks 71BIS values PSA vs. BGS

[BiggNuttz]

I was recently having a look into the Messi 2004-05 Mega Cracks 71BIS in high grade, and was rather shocked at the large value discrepancy between BGS and PSA, especially in higher grades like PSA 9/BGS 9. I was hoping those of you more familiar with this card could shed some light on this. More specifically:

Has this discrepancy always been there, or is it a more recent phenomena?

Is there any specific reason(s) for the difference? Is PSA stricter than BGS? Registry buyers? Problems with BGS certifying fakes/altered cards? Something else?

Are there any sets/groups of serial numbers that are problematic for either company? Any that are preferable?

In your opinion, where does the best value lie and why?

If able to view BGS cards in hand, is there any reason why I could not buy a high end BGS 9 and cross it over to PSA, or are the standards that far apart?

For full transparency: I do not own any of these cards, nor do I plan on buying one any time soon, I would just like to know the source of the discrepancy and if this is specific to the 71BIS or something that the market has decided that PSA is worth a big premium for any card, across the board.

Thank you.

[dubsea]

PSA is basically looked at as the gold standard for grading these days, despite them being far from perfect. The discussion is complex but from what Ive seen these are the factors (in general):

-PSA Guarantees their authenticity and will refund you if a card turns out to be counterfeit. Not a big deal with lower value cards, but with big ticket cards it does bring some peace of mind. Yes, there have been cases of all companies grading potentially fake cards.

-Oftentimes PSA's standards are higher than other companies so a PSA 9, might be a BGS 9.5 or a SGC 10. Again, this varies but im speaking in general terms. We've obviously all seen cards from all grading agencies that dont appear to match the grade they got. I have several PSA 10's in my collection that are OC enough that I highly doubt they would get that grade if I submitted them today. Ive also submitted perfect cards that should be 10's but came back as 9's. There can be even more apparent variation in older cards that are lower grads. The truth is, it's still a subjective process and that means human judgement and emotions are involved.

-Since PSA is the benchmark, some folks predominantly collect PSA slabs.

-It seems to me that over the years, PSA has gotten more discriminating about grading. This might be because people subbing are more aware of what they might sub and take steps to clean their cards or touch up edges/corners with kits like Kurt's offers. Ive seen many of the same cards with the same grades and the more recent cert number is nearly always a better looking card.

In short, buy the card not the grade. Ive got several older low-grade, bigger (for me) cards in my collection that look GREAT but are PSA 1-4. Im happy with how they look and while, of course I wish the grade was higher, the grades dont bother me cause they are sweet cards.

[crdbored]

BGS was king up until the pandemic. It's almost unanimously agreed that PSA is king right now.

PSA was able to capitalize on the post-pandemic boom and remain the front runner to all collectors, flippers, and investors.

Now, you will find big cards in BGS holders because collectors before the Pandemic all believed BGS was THE slab.
Some of those older cards do retain value: Trout, Lebron, Curry, etc.
BGS has had a lot of controversies that has hit their reputation and they have never fully recovered. (trimmed cards/altered)

The Messi BGS/PSA sales are interesting. Messi and soccer cards have recently caught on and weren't always graded. I think collectors and investors are buying the PSA 10 at a higher value because that is the current trend.

The only thing that outsells a PSA 10 these days is a black label BGS and a CGC pristine 10 at least in TCG (pokemon).

As far as cross grading goes, i've never done it but some people have had success with older BGS 9.5.

[gomiamigo]

Most of BGS gold 10s outsell PSA 10s, at least in basketball.

PSA has graded just as many altered cards as BGS, probably more.

Their online registry is what allowed them to take the lead from BGS. They are def the king now.

A psa 10 KD chrome rookie just went for 2760 in PSA. Same card $6k in BGS 10.

[netmasters]

The value difference makes no sense if you compare it to other grail cards. If you look at the Jordan rookie the premium between PSA and BGS is 2 to 1 where the Messi is 5 to 1. The reason is that it seems like PSA is pop controlling the Messi in 9s and 10s. A lot of the older graded Messi PSA 9s probably wouldnt get a 9 if they were cracked and sent back to PSA. I do know the buy that is buying most of the Messi does not want BGS so that probably helps.

[dubsea]

As bad as PSA sucks, they are not "pop controlling" the 71bis.

Their grading standards are just more stringent than BGS in most cases. Especially on more recently graded cards. Buy the card, not the grade. Id rather have a PSA 9 that looks near perfect than a BGS 9.5 that looks questionable.

Considering that there HAVE been fakes of the 71bis and PSA will payout for fakes they have graded, but BGS wont, I would have to imagine that there is some value placed on that too. Especially if you are dropping big $ on a high grade copy.

[chiefs]

I would just add that the baseball people always slightly valued the older BGS slabs because the policy was stricter back then. I can't imagine there are too many Messis in the old BGS slabs, but just throwing it out there in case you see one.

[pryantexas]

As someone who attempted a handful of BGS to PSA crossovers of this card (back when a BGS 9.5 was worth $4000) I can tell you that BGS has encapsulated many that PSA deem to be 'short' aka 'trimmed'

[BiggNuttz]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

As someone who attempted a handful of BGS to PSA crossovers of this card (back when a BGS 9.5 was worth $4000) I can tell you that BGS has encapsulated many that PSA deem to be 'short' aka 'trimmed'

Thanks to everyone for the comments and input. I am very well versed in the BGS/PSA discount/premium, but for this specific card, the numbers are quite extreme.

I was kind of assuming, as pryantexas mentioned, that BGS had some "problems" with cards they have graded compared to PSA. I assumed either A) Outright fakes B) A serious divergence in standards for one particular aspect C) Trimmed or "short" cards.

I wonder how many of the cards PSA rejected were actually altered, versus the poor quality control of Panini with Megacracks. Having opened a LOT of Megacracks, I can definitely attest to how poor the quality is, and how few cards coming out of packs might have a shot at PSA 10. Heck, for some of the foil type insert cards, the foil will flake off just by inserting them into penny sleeves.

As someone looking to potentially buy a nice copy (9~9.5) for my personal collection, I will consider BGS cards, but with the caveat of being able to inspect them "in hand". Buying BGS cards sight unseen seems like a fools errand, and a recipe to get hung with potentially altered cards.

Thanks again to everyone who has commented, and if anyone has more comments or observations, please add them to this thread.

Kind regards

[dubsea]

Ive been cracking a few BGS and SGC slabs recently to sub to PSA and all I can say is WOW - some of the glaring issues present on BGS 9.5 and SGC 9/10's are a bit shocking. While it does seem that PSA can be a crap shoot depending on what grader you get, Id honestly rather have grading companies be TOO picky than not enough.

Im still shocked at the consistency of all these companies considering the value implications. If you want to see some crazy inconsistencies go look at some low grade 1978 Crack Maradona PSA cards in 1-3 grades. It's wild.