2024 (Judge/Ohtani) vs 1998 (McGwire/Sosa)

[michaeltgraham]

I don’t remember anything quite like the buzz/coverage of the 1998 baseball season, especially during the month of September. Everyone was talking about it. The highlights were not only on ESPN, but on late night news. Baseball, dare I say it, had a moment where football was an afterthought for a very short period of time. Every AB of Mark and Sammy was televised live on many channels…I think even the weather channel broke away from your local forecast just in case a HR was hit. The lunch lady even had a white board with updated home run totals in the cafeteria at a farm town school in Northwest Ohio.

Fast forward to 2024. The numbers being put up by Judge and Ohtani are historic. This should be must see tv. Being a huge baseball fan, I think I even overlooked the scope of what these guys are doing until I looked at the numbers this morning.

What is the MLB doing? It seems as if they are missing an all-time opportunity to market their sport and they are falling flat on their face. Could you image a potential 55 HR / 60 SB season with an outside shot at the Triple Crown? It’s happening! A Yankee potentially putting up a 60 HR / 150 RBI season while batting .325!? That’s also happening.

I bet more people know how many bottles of baby oil were recovered from Diddy’s house than the numbers these guys are putting up! More coverage.

They did it right in 1998. Sammy’s 1990 Leaf hit $200 raw! That’s marketing right there! 90 year old grandmas were searching desperately for their 1985 Topps sets. It was a great time for baseball.


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[BostonNut]

We were all turning a blind eye to what those guys were putting into their bodies to put up those numbers.

Now that we know they are all using something it’s just, meh.

Just my opinion.

[rms13]

Baseball is the 3rd most popular sport now at best. I'd argue that WNBA and UFC are more popular right now as well. There is probably 10x the media coverage for Caitlin Clark then there is for Ohtani and Judge combined. It's a much different world then 1998.

[rogueriver]

Its phones and the availability of things to watch online. I honestly think people especially this younger generation expect instant gratification and now and do nothing but watch useless crap on their phones all day. I’m sorry but I was at a nice restaurant with my wife and literally every table has at least one party on their phones clicking away. We are becoming completely self absorbed and flooded with videos and quick bites everyday….. It even shows in this hobby, remember when you actually had to open a pack and box and HOPED you got a hit, now it is virtually expected the pack got smaller and all contain a hit….Society has shifted

[corndog]

Fool me once....

[michaeltgraham]

The problem with this is that 1998 put baseball “back on the map.” Regardless of the steroids, baseball was fun to watch. I am probably in the minority when I say that I watch baseball for entertainment no different than people watch the WWE for the same reason. I don’t think Sammy and Mark were stand up guys when it comes to the integrity of the game, but they put on a show and people watched.

I want to see Judge and Ohtani ABs. Those kids that watch non stop 30 second reels, they would watch towering HRs too if what was going on was news outside of a 10 second highlight on MLB network at 1 in the morning. Baseball needs a shot in the arm (pun intended).


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[fabiani12333]

No offense OP, but you clearly haven't been following MLB media this season -- they have been pumping the hell out of Judge and Ohtani. Every damn day I go on mlb.com or tune into MLB Network they are talking about Judge and Ohtani doing "historic" things -- it's frankly obnoxious and comes across as desperate.

Baseball just isn't that popular or culturally relevant in the US anymore. That's why you aren't seeing the mainstream media focusing on them.

Plus, Ohtani and Judge play for two of the most despised teams in the league. The Dodgers and Yankees are big market juggernauts who annually outspend other teams. Fans and the general public outside of those markets don't like them.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by rms13

Baseball is the 3rd most popular sport now at best. I'd argue that WNBA and UFC are more popular right now as well. There is probably 10x the media coverage for Caitlin Clark then there is for Ohtani and Judge combined. It's a much different world then 1998.

Uhh -- the WNBA? I'm pretty sure MLB's viewership and attendance dwarfs the WNBA's.

The WNBA is still relying on the NBA for financial support, right?

It's great that some of the WNBA's players are stars and drawing attention -- I guess you don't remember players like Lisa Leslie -- but that doesn't mean the league is more popular or successful than MLB.

[TimBuckTwo]

Originally Posted by michaeltgraham

I bet more people know how many bottles of baby oil were recovered from Diddy’s house than the numbers these guys are putting up! More coverage.


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Yes! IT is 1000.

Who Is Jutge and Otanhe?

[michaeltgraham]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

No offense OP, but you clearly haven't been following MLB media this season -- they have been pumping the hell out of Judge and Ohtani. Every damn day I go on mlb.com or tune into MLB Network they are talking about Judge and Ohtani doing "historic" things -- it's frankly obnoxious and comes across as desperate.

Baseball just isn't that popular or culturally relevant in the US anymore. That's why you aren't seeing the mainstream media focusing on them.

Plus, Ohtani and Judge play for two of the most despised teams in the league. The Dodgers and Yankees are big market juggernauts who annually outspend other teams. Fans and the general public outside of those markets don't like them.

You kind of proved my point. MLB Network is the only place you will find news of what is going on. I was comparing it to cable and news networks breaking into regularly scheduled programs to show live ABs.

Baseball isn’t that popular or relevant because that is the job of the brand to market it, which is my second point. The popularity of the WNBA grew exponentially because of the national spotlight on Caitlin Clark. If the WNBA figured it out and overnight rose in popularity, the MLB has the opportunity to do the same.

The Dodgers and Yankees are far more liked than you give them credit for. Ohtani, Judge and Betts are the 3 of the top 4 in jersey sales and it’s not really close. I don’t like the Yankees, however, I like to watch Judge and Soto hit. I really dislike the Dodgers but love to watch Betts and Ohtani.

Yes, the MLB is #3 in popularity and could easily be #2 over the NBA with the right strategy. They are missing a huge opportunity with the lack of coverage of Ohtani and Judge.


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[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by michaeltgraham

You kind of proved my point. MLB Network is the only place you will find news of what is going on. I was comparing it to cable and news networks breaking into regularly scheduled programs to show live ABs.

Baseball isn’t that popular or relevant because that is the job of the brand to market it, which is my second point. The popularity of the WNBA grew exponentially because of the national spotlight on Caitlin Clark. If the WNBA figured it out and overnight rose in popularity, the MLB has the opportunity to do the same.

The Dodgers and Yankees are far more liked than you give them credit for. Ohtani, Judge and Betts are the 3 of the top 4 in jersey sales and it’s not really close. I don’t like the Yankees, however, I like to watch Judge and Soto hit. I really dislike the Dodgers but love to watch Betts and Ohtani.

Yes, the MLB is #3 in popularity and could easily be #2 over the NBA with the right strategy. They are missing a huge opportunity with the lack of coverage of Ohtani and Judge.


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Once again, no offense, but you seem very naive.

MLB can't force the mainstream media to care about them. They can buy up advertising, but clearly that's expensive and probably not that cost effective.

Caitlin Clark became a national sensation in college -- college! She's been treated poorly in the WNBA, with jealous players having knives out for her and her being left off the USA women's national team.

Ohtani, Judge and Betts have the highest selling jerseys in large part because they play in biggest markets -- that's how it typically works. MLB fandom is very regional.

[Twalk1975]

Where is the growth potential, in the US, or the overseas markets?

[FatButcher]

[QUOTE=fabiani12333;19642737]No offense OP, but you clearly haven't been following MLB media this season -- they have been pumping the hell out of Judge and Ohtani. Every damn day I go on mlb.com or tune into MLB Network they are talking about Judge and Ohtani doing "historic" things -- it's frankly obnoxious and comes across as desperate.

This is the point though, in 1998 it was being covered like this everywhere, not just MLB outlets.

All baseball fans know about Judge/Ohtani, it was on non-fan radars in 1998.

[Twalk1975]

I am going to guess that not once has anyone at MLB suggested that Ohtani conduct interviews in English.

[Ianhatcher]

It's anecdotal as I went through both but just going to bars and watching games during both times it seemed like everyone was into and watching the HR race in 1998 and not just baseball fans. Hell, Bonds breaking 73 seemed to matter more to everyone than this season.

I took off work early and went to the Os game that day and then went to a Sports Bar in Baltimore afterwards and was there when Ohtani broke 50/50. Nobody cared. And these are sports fans.

In 1998 everyone seemed to be glued to every game McGwire and Sosa were playing in.

[spuds1961]

The players of the WNBA figure it’s best to draw conflict and criticize the one person who had been able to draw attention to a league that was pretty much non existent before she came along. To even put the WNBA in a popularity conversation is pretty ridiculous. Once the NBA season is in full swing will anybody give a rats ass about the WNBA. They are in comparison Double A baseball compared to the Major Leagues.

[vinbots]

Judge and Ohtani aren’t trying to break 61*. That was an OMG achievement that the world knew about.

Today we can’t even agree what the Homerun record is.

So what record are Judge and Ohtani trying to break? None, they are just two very good players having great years. They’re not even in the same league so they’re not even battling each other for anything. They will both win MVP for their respective league and one or both may win the triple crown.

[fabiani12333]

[QUOTE=FatButcher;19642792]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

No offense OP, but you clearly haven't been following MLB media this season -- they have been pumping the hell out of Judge and Ohtani. Every damn day I go on mlb.com or tune into MLB Network they are talking about Judge and Ohtani doing "historic" things -- it's frankly obnoxious and comes across as desperate.

This is the point though, in 1998 it was being covered like this everywhere, not just MLB outlets.

All baseball fans know about Judge/Ohtani, it was on non-fan radars in 1998.

Traditional media has been in steady decline over the last couple of decades -- who watches SportsCenter or the evening news anymore? Who reads physical newspapers or magazines?

MLB has a big social media presence, whether it's the official league accounts, team accounts, or reporters. They post clips on YouTube and other platforms and they allow others to do so as well. With almost every person getting their news online nowadays, MLB's reach is greater than ever.

So why aren't Judge and Ohtani seasons bigger news? Because MLB has been in steady decline too. The steroid scandal greatly damaged the sport's reputation, and the rising costs to attend and watch games made it less accessible to average people. Expensive travel ball has dominated amateur baseball, taking away from traditional leagues and making the game less accessible. Moneyball made the game less entertaining to watch, emphasizing efficiency at the expense of traditional play that was more exciting and interesting.

[Twalk1975]

Originally Posted by spuds1961

The players of the WNBA figure it’s best to draw conflict and criticize the one person who had been able to draw attention to a league that was pretty much non existent before she came along. To even put the WNBA in a popularity conversation is pretty ridiculous. Once the NBA season is in full swing will anybody give a rats ass about the WNBA. They are in comparison Double A baseball compared to the Major Leagues.

The players of the WNBA sound like Blowout members.

[spuds1961]

Originally Posted by Twalk1975

The players of the WNBA sound like Blowout members.

They are killing themselves and any higher salaries they would get by their pettiness.

[michaeltgraham]

Originally Posted by vinbots

Judge and Ohtani aren’t trying to break 61*. That was an OMG achievement that the world knew about.

Today we can’t even agree what the Homerun record is.

So what record are Judge and Ohtani trying to break? None, they are just two very good players having great years. They’re not even in the same league so they’re not even battling each other for anything. They will both win MVP for their respective league and one or both may win the triple crown.

HR record is 73


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[marl1220]

Originally Posted by michaeltgraham

HR record is 73


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[bub838]

It’s not remotely the same. In 1998 they were chasing the homerun record. Triple crown isnt worth that hype either.

[rms13]

[QUOTE=fabiani12333;19642824]

Originally Posted by FatButcher

Traditional media has been in steady decline over the last couple of decades -- who watches SportsCenter or the evening news anymore? Who reads physical newspapers or magazines?

MLB has a big social media presence, whether it's the official league accounts, team accounts, or reporters. They post clips on YouTube and other platforms and they allow others to do so as well. With almost every person getting their news online nowadays, MLB's reach is greater than ever.

So why aren't Judge and Ohtani seasons bigger news? Because MLB has been in steady decline too. The steroid scandal greatly damaged the sport's reputation, and the rising costs to attend and watch games made it less accessible to average people. Expensive travel ball has dominated amateur baseball, taking away from traditional leagues and making the game less accessible. Moneyball made the game less entertaining to watch, emphasizing efficiency at the expense of traditional play that was more exciting and interesting.

There are definitely a lot of people here obsessed with steroids but as a whole I don't think that has anything to do with where the league is now. That was a big story like 25 years ago. People who are in the key demographic now weren't even alive then. Look at the NFL. Guys get suspended for PED there all the time and nobody cares. The concussion issue in NFL is much bigger then PED in MLB in my opinion and that hasn't effected the league's popularity. It seems like there are at least a couple of star players in the NFL every year with some big off the field issues and that doesn't matter. Despite all that stuff the NFL is the most popular league in the US and it's more popular then ever. Honestly I think one of the big issues with MLB is that gambling on baseball isn't as exciting as gambling on football, basketball or even the UFC. Gambling is a huge focus of sports today. ESPN and all the networks covering football dedicate time to gambling and have people on shows discussing the lines etc every day. But baseball also is a dinosaur in that regards and they've obviously have a checkered past with gambling so I understand why they don't want to embrace that aspect more but at the same time you have to change with the times and baseball is very slow to do that. The NFL and NBA are expensive too so I don't see the cost of attending a baseball game being a huge factor in popularity compared to other sports. Baseball is just less popular then it even has been and younger people are less and less interested. I live in one of the hot spots for youth and high school baseball so it's probably more popular here then in other parts of the country but even here the white suburban kids where I live all seem like they're more interested in playing basketball. There are competitive pick up basketball games every time I go to the park and I don't think kids have played pick up baseball games in about 40 years.

[mattglet]

MLB can't get out of their own way, and seemingly does thing after thing to keep people from being able to watch. MLB Network isn't even available on YouTubeTV ffs. I know it takes two to tango there, but it's still a bullet in the list.

And we can continue to beat the blackout rules dead horse if we want.