TWO 01/50 1999 Metal Gems Barry Bonds listed

[GOLDPRIZM]

I just realized these Barry Bonds 99 Metal Gems are both serial 01/50 and both graded by PSA, which one is real? Both are currently active in PSA when you enter the PSA serial number. I find it a little odd that they are both listed at nearly the same time too.

One listed by MC Sports Cards on Ebay is a PSA 7
https://www.ebay.com/itm/17651372017...Bk9SR-bSkcCoZA


One listed by Fanatics Collect weekly auction is a PSA 8
https://www.fanaticscollect.com/item...43-psa-8-nm-mt

Anyone have any info on this?

[fabiani12333]

One or both must have been backdoored or sold via Fleer's bankruptcy sale.

[3124508 on COMC]

This thread hasn’t taken off like I expected it to.

[hxcmilkshake]

Case on the 8 seems sketchy af

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[OhioLawyerF5]

Typically the way to tell the backdoored PMGs is the serial# is off. I'm no expert on them, but the one on ebay looks to be the real one.

But it is definitely an issue with PMGs as entire sheets got out during the bankruptcy and were cut up and stamped with fake stamps.

[GOLDPRIZM]

If someone can assist in posting the pictures of each in here maybe that would be helpful. I don't use blowout that much and have been unable to get the pics uploaded to this thread.

Also doesn't PSA have something in place that it can detect if a card has already been graded? If so, how did they let a second 01/50 get graded, and not only graded, but it was graded higher than the previous one.

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by GOLDPRIZM

Also doesn't PSA have something in place that it can detect if a card has already been graded? If so, how did they let a second 01/50 get graded, and not only graded, but it was graded higher than the previous one.

Many people believe that they bought the Genamint software in order to get it off the market, not to truly use it themselves to fingerprint. But no, since they don't catalog the serial numbers of cards submitted to them, it's relatively expected that they make errors like this. Which means, if there was only 1 produced by the manufacturer and pack-inserted, that they also still cannot identify aftermarket serial number stamping, sheet cutting, a counterfeit, or some combination of the above.

[mjohnatgt]

eBay:


Fanatics Collect (was PWCC):

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Many people believe that they bought the Genamint software in order to get it off the market, not to truly use it themselves to fingerprint. But no, since they don't catalog the serial numbers of cards submitted to them, it's relatively expected that they make errors like this. Which means, if there was only 1 produced by the manufacturer and pack-inserted, that they also still cannot identify aftermarket serial number stamping, sheet cutting, a counterfeit, or some combination of the above.

In a somewhat recent interview, Nat mentioned the genamint fingerprint technology still isn't in production, and serial numbered cards are only manually being tracked/recorded.
I haven't seen much about the use/accuracy, but psa supposedly introduced some AI counterfeit detection software earlier in the year. Initially caught 250~ fake cards, already in circulation. According to the founder, this was based on the genamint tech.

Do the experts think one of these has a counterfeit serial number?

[soey10]

Just me looking at it but the one on eBay has a serial number that is not lined up correctly. Not sure if that is normal or not. Looks lower than the 50 whereas the one on fanatics looks more in line.


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[jmarascojr]

Originally Posted by soey10

Just me looking at it but the one on eBay has a serial number that is not lined up correctly. Not sure if that is normal or not. Looks lower than the 50 whereas the one on fanatics looks more in line.


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I would agree, the 8 looks legit by how the numbers are lined up while the 7 looks wonky, like someone did it at home...

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by soey10

Just me looking at it but the one on eBay has a serial number that is not lined up correctly. Not sure if that is normal or not. Looks lower than the 50 whereas the one on fanatics looks more in line.


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Oddly enough, the serial numbers on the PMGs were often not lined up and the one that looks lined up is the fake one, I believe. It's almost to the point where if I see one lined up perfectly it's a red flag.

The interesting thing is the ones listed on Fanatics right now all seemed lined up (i.e. fake).

But again, disclaimer, I am far from 100% sure from these pictures.

[3124508 on COMC]

My review was that the Fanatics PSA 8 was the legitimate one based on other Bonds exemplars.

[superdan49]

This may be the first time I disagree with 3124508 on these matters, but I believe the Fanatics PSA 8 (Cert #70893179) is the fake stamp.

I'd be happy discuss with any longtime members if they contact me.

[Cardsandcoffee]

This needs to blow up more so prospective buyers know there’s authenticity questions

[dhcollecting]

The psa 8 is the fake and it's not even a question. The numbers are perfectly straight and it does not have that rectangular film founding around the stamping.

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by Cardsandcoffee

This needs to blow up more so prospective buyers know there’s authenticity questions

It is the headline for today's blowout digest post on Facebook showing both copies in the image. Has anyone reached out to either seller?

[Finest]

Two 1999 Barry Bonds PMG 1/50? Damn. Is it possible both are backdoored, sheet cut?

[DynaEtch]

Man…backdoored cards are the bane of 90s collecting. How strange that they are both for sale at the same time.

I’m glad in 97 Finest, the backdoors of GER are differentiable from legit pack-inserted (non-Diecut, non-embossed). To heck with dealing with the above.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by superdan49

This may be the first time I disagree with 3124508 on these matters, but I believe the Fanatics PSA 8 (Cert #70893179) is the fake stamp.

I'd be happy discuss with any longtime members if they contact me.

How about these? If you think they’re fake too, then I am happy to reverse my thoughts and agree with you.

https://goldin.co/item/1999-skybox-m...onds-07-5uzwb1

https://www.fanaticscollect.com/item...-43-psa-6-exmt

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

How about these? If you think they’re fake too, then I am happy to reverse my thoughts and agree with you.

https://goldin.co/item/1999-skybox-m...onds-07-5uzwb1

https://www.fanaticscollect.com/item...-43-psa-6-exmt

Here's the five PSA-graded examples I found:
PSA 8 — Cert# 70893179 — #'d 01/50 (current Fanatics auction)
PSA 7 — Cert# 64285156 — #'d 01/50 (current eBay auction)
PSA 6 — Cert# 87050113 — #'d 02/50
PSA 6 — Cert# 63629835 — #'d 03/50
PSA 8 — Cert# 70205748 — #'d 07/50
https://imgur.com/a/J2kZdSa



And here's a comparison of the serial numbering on each:




In the upper left-hand corner is the Fanatics PSA 8 serial numbered 01/50. Notice the green arrows pointing to the bottom of the letter M and the top of the letter T. The bottom middle of the letter M on the four others is pointed, whereas the Fanatics example is flatter.

The horizontal bar of the letter T, meanwhile, is thinner than the vertical bar in the Fanatics PSA 8 compared with the other four examples where they are the same thickness. That's what led me to conclude the Fanatics example is the one bearing the fake stamp.

The scammers never get all the font details correct. PSA missed this one, but I would have too if I didn't do a deep dive.

[3124508 on COMC]

I am specifically concerned with the placement of the “01” on the PSA 7 copy and suspect that this may be a copy that was released with everything but the serial number like below. Conversely, the PSA 8 “01” appears to be perfectly placed relative to 02, 03, and 07.

Originally Posted by superdan49

Here's the five PSA-graded examples I found:
PSA 8 — Cert# 70893179 — #'d 01/50 (current Fanatics auction)
PSA 7 — Cert# 64285156 — #'d 01/50 (current eBay auction)
PSA 6 — Cert# 87050113 — #'d 02/50
PSA 6 — Cert# 63629835 — #'d 03/50
PSA 8 — Cert# 70205748 — #'d 07/50
https://imgur.com/a/J2kZdSa



And here's a comparison of the serial numbering on each:




In the upper left-hand corner is the Fanatics PSA 8 serial numbered 01/50. Notice the green arrows pointing to the bottom of the letter M and the top of the letter T. The bottom middle of the letter M on the four others is pointed, whereas the Fanatics example is flatter.

The horizontal bar of the letter T, meanwhile, is thinner than the vertical bar in the Fanatics PSA 8 compared with the other four examples where they are the same thickness. That's what led me to conclude the Fanatics example is the one bearing the fake stamp.

The scammers never get all the font details correct. PSA missed this one, but I would have too if I didn't do a deep dive.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

I am specifically concerned with the placement of the “01” on the PSA 7 copy and suspect that this may be a copy that was released with everything but the serial number like below. Conversely, the PSA 8 “01” appears to be perfectly placed relative to 02, 03, and 07.

I've seen the serial number placed all over on legit PMGs. Uniformity in placement is a red flag to me. They were not often in the same spot from card to card, oftentimes with the 2 numbers in the serial number not even lined up. It's the font and foil that is usually telling, rather than placement.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I've seen the serial number placed all over on legit PMGs. Uniformity in placement is a red flag to me. They were not often in the same spot from card to card, oftentimes with the 2 numbers in the serial number not even lined up. It's the font and foil that is usually telling, rather than placement.

That’s fine and dandy, but we have three examples here (02, 03, and 07) that all have absolutely identical placement. Are you saying that all those are fake?

The font and foil of just a “01” is going to be hard to authenticate when there are copies out there that have everything except that.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

That’s fine and dandy, but we have three examples here (02, 03, and 07) that all have absolutely identical placement. Are you saying that all those are fake?

The font and foil of just a “01” is going to be hard to authenticate when there are copies out there that have everything except that.

I am not saying those are fake. They are correct font. I'm saying that is what matters, rsther than placement.

Expand your search beyond Bonds. The sample is too small.

The stamping was the same font for all cards. If it's wrong, it's fake, placement be damned. As the Ripken demonstrates, the serial # was stamped at a different time, and with a different font than the "of 50 Precious Metal Gems" stamp. Possibly even hand stamped. I understand your concern. It is definitely hard to authenticate just the 01. But that's what we have to do. I just put little stock in placement because I've seen enough to know it doesn't matter. Your mileage may vary.