Is Josh Gibson the best hitter of all time?

[fabiani12333]

Now that Negro League statistics have been incorporated into the official MLB record book, Josh Gibson holds the all-time records for batting average, slugging percentage and OPS. That means he's statistically better in those categories than Babe Ruth, Ted Williams and Barry Bonds.

Previously, many baseball fans would have pointed to the Babe being the best slugger of all time, out homering entire teams during a given season. Many would have said Ted Williams was the best all-around hitter in the history of the game, leading the AL in OPS ten times. And many would have said Barry Bonds was the most feared hitter of all time during his prime, previously holding the record for three of the top four single-season OPS's in MLB history and being intentionally walked a ridiculous 688 times during his career -- including with the bases loaded in the 9th inning (even he was surprised by this):




While Gibson's rate stats were amazing, his counting stats were limited by the fact that the Negro Leagues season only lasted 60 to 80 games. This puts his official career PAs at a paltry 2,490, compared to 10,616 for the Babe, 9,791 for Williams, and 12,606 for Bonds.

Another thing to consider is the relative talent difference between the Negro Leagues and MLB. While the Negro Leagues clearly had all-time great talent, it was probably much more top heavy compared to MLB -- the talent pool was much smaller for the Negro Leagues, considering blacks only made up about 10% of the US population in the 20s, 30s and 40s, versus about 90% for whites.

One other important consideration is that Ted Williams lost three of his prime years to serving the US in WWII -- coinciding with his age 24-26 years. In the season right before leaving for service, he led the league in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+ and HR -- absolutely insane. If he had played during those seasons, his career OPS might have matched Gibson's.

So, what do you think? Is Josh Gibson now in fact the best big league hitter of all time? I personally say it's Ted Williams. In fact, I say he's a goddamn American hero -- a real life John Wayne movie character. He even took the time during his Hall of Fame induction speech to acknowledge Gibson:

The date was July 25, 1966. Williams entered the Hall of Fame that day and made a speech that still resonates around the baseball world. He used his induction speech as an opportunity to speak on behalf of Negro League players. He felt that stars like Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson had largely been overlooked and should be in Cooperstown. Williams knew about their talents, as he competed against Negro Leaguers during barnstorming games starting in the early '40s, when Major League Baseball was still segregated.

“I hope that someday, the names of Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson can … be added to the symbol of the great Negro League players that are not here only because they were not given a chance,” Williams told the crowd that day.

https://www.mlb.com/news/ted-william...league-players

[Archangel1775]

He could be but just like this thread, there will always be a sold debate. Hell, there are some people in this forum that believe a couple pitchers with less than 100 innings between them are already better than Nolan Ryan and Bob Gibson. Along with that, some here would say that Joey Gallo is better than Ted Williams because in 2024, everyone is better than the past. But realistically, all-time greats are just that and I'm good with it.

[sportzluvr1]

Of course he is. Check the stats.

[Biohazarddfl]

No

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Now that Negro League statistics have been incorporated into the official MLB record book, Josh Gibson holds the all-time records for batting average, slugging percentage and OPS. That means he's statistically better in those categories than Babe Ruth, Ted Williams and Barry Bonds.

Previously, many baseball fans would have pointed to the Babe being the best slugger of all time, out homering entire teams during a given season. Many would have said Ted Williams was the best all-around hitter in the history of the game, leading the AL in OPS ten times. And many would have said Barry Bonds was the most feared hitter of all time during his prime, previously holding the record for three of the top four single-season OPS's in MLB history and being intentionally walked a ridiculous 688 times during his career -- including with the bases loaded in the 9th inning (even he was surprised by this):




While Gibson's rate stats were amazing, his counting stats were limited by the fact that the Negro Leagues season only lasted 60 to 80 games. This puts his official career PAs at a paltry 2,490, compared to 10,616 for the Babe, 9,791 for Williams, and 12,606 for Bonds.

Another thing to consider is the relative talent difference between the Negro Leagues and MLB. While the Negro Leagues clearly had all-time great talent, it was probably much more top heavy compared to MLB -- the talent pool was much smaller for the Negro Leagues, considering blacks only made up about 10% of the US population in the 20s, 30s and 40s, versus about 90% for whites.

One other important consideration is that Ted Williams lost three of his prime years to serving the US in WWII -- coinciding with his age 24-26 years. In the season right before leaving for service, he led the league in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+ and HR -- absolutely insane. If he had played during those seasons, his career OPS might have matched Gibson's.

So, what do you think? Is Josh Gibson now in fact the best big league hitter of all time? I personally say it's Ted Williams. In fact, I say he's a goddamn American hero -- a real life John Wayne movie character. He even took the time during his Hall of Fame induction speech to acknowledge Gibson:


https://www.mlb.com/news/ted-william...league-players

* Black people. * White people.

Subtle but important.

We don't call people olds or talls or nices. We call them old people, tall people, or nice people. Why? Because those characteristics are not what they are. They are people.

[cardsin47]

Probably a definitively unanswerable question….

[DioBrando]

Maybe, possibly but not a question that could have a definitive answer.

[bub838]

How is there no poll?

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

* Black people. * White people.

Subtle but important.

We don't call people olds or talls or nices. We call them old people, tall people, or nice people. Why? Because those characteristics are not what they are. They are people.

Stop sounding like a young.

[Chris Lyle]

I think some are making the decision to put the Negro Leaguers into the stat books way too big of an issue. Stats only don't say someone is the best. Just because Gibson is ahead of Ruth, etc. doesn't change the fact that we won't know who the "best" is. Just celebrate that there finally is no separation and don't make it bigger than it is.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Stop sounding like a young.

Literally the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me on Blowout!

[theshowandme]

There are probably 5-7 names that you could make a serious argument for

10-15 names is stretching it

Gibson is closer to 1 than he is to 10-15

[cspaced25]

What is the point of an ignore\block list if I still see the post listed when the OP is on it?????

[base set]

It’s a trap.

[JRX]

Its really apples and oranges given Josh Gibson is credited with about as many pa as Bo Bichette while Ruth has over 10k. Ty Cobb has over 13k pa. That's basically Josh Gibson's career x 6. Do all the rate leaderboards no longer take into account minimum pa to qualify?

[Boredlawyer]

Idea for OP

When you think you're having a pseudo-intellectual thought that deserves its own topic, just let it marinate for thirty minutes in your head, and try to forget about it

You are not Lester Holt and you are not moderating a unique panel

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by cspaced25

What is the point of an ignore\block list if I still see the post listed when the OP is on it?????

Seriously.

[Americards]

Yes, In the Negro League...

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by Boredlawyer

Idea for OP

When you think you're having a pseudo-intellectual thought that deserves its own topic, just let it marinate for thirty minutes in your head, and try to forget about it

You are not Lester Holt and you are not moderating a unique panel

10/10, would read this comment again.

[brauncj1]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Literally the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me on Blowout!

Based on your previous post I can’t say I’m surprised.

[ThatGuyPal]

Throw in Barry Bonds so you don't look racist....

I see you OP, I see you

[daveyc1]

According to the new "official" statistics, I would give Josh Gibson a resounding YES as the greatest hitter of all time. I mean, check it out. in 2255 "official" at bats, the man only struck out 11 times!!! Imagine that for a slugger.

or, maybe, the new "official" stats may not be quite as accurate as we are led to believe...

[RAV2773]

I dont think there always has to be a definite "best" or "greatest" of anything. There will always be a debate from one person to another. Just human nature. Also doesn't matter in my opinion what shade of skin they had, some were lighter, some were darker, all were great.

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[80s Kid]

Sure, I guess we needed another bait thread regarding the stats being officially added yesterday.

Its kind of amazing that Josh Gibson had a brain tumor and just kept playing for years before he died at 35. Without the brain tumor fans may have gotten to see him play in the National League.

[fishepa]

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop?