Authentic grade- Tom Brady question

[oplum29]

i know there's a thread already on this topic, but this is a football card question too, so i wanted to keep it here.

can someone please help me understand the exact definition of "authentic"?

a few weeks back, i was in the process to purchase up a Tom Brady Momentum rookie card. one was graded as "authentic". the seller told me that it received this grade because it was miscut.

another seller said his card was labeled as PSA authentic because it didn't meet the asking grade- say they wanted a 9 and it got an 8 or 7, then it would just get labeled as "authentic" instead.

YET...PSA is very unspecific about their definition of a card that is labeled as authentic.

"this may be due to an alteration, one with malice or otherwise" or "the submitter requested that PSA encapsulate the card without a grade"

also, PSA considers the "authentic" grade to be "interchangeable" with "authentic-altered"



so here are my questions:

1- how can a card be labeled as authentic despite possibly being altered? wouldn't that card receive the "authentic-altered" grade instead?

2- is there a way to determine if a card was labeled as authentic because the submitter asked for that designation instead of the numerical one?

3- is there a way to determine if a card was labeled as authentic because it has an "alteration, one with malice or otherwise"?

4- i've heard 2000 Playoff Contenders was notorious for factory miscut cards...did this apply to other products like Momentum as well?

i appreciate any dialogue relevant to the discussion. thanks fellas!

[kluke84]

It's my understanding that anything that is trimmed or noticeable is 'altered' and authentic is usually a catchall for a card you think will grade poorly but at least is not modified.

I know 2000 Playoff has a lot of miscut cards but I am not an expert on how those are treated. Since many apparently came out of boxes that way. Maybe that's why they stay Authentic if there is not clear tampering.

[Grid]

The "Authentic" only designation is to be considered interchangeable with "Authentic Altered". Its right on their website.

From my understanding, and how it used to work (its been years since I submitted anything). If I sent in a card for a grade, and it was trimmed. I'd get the dreaded N1 and the card sent back to me no slab.

If I assumed it was trimmed, altered, colored in ETC. And sent for grading, I could then ask for it to be slabbed Authentic Altered if it failed.

But if I wanted to work around all that, I'd just submit my trimmed card to be authenticated. It would never go to grading, and it would just be slabbed Authentic without the "Altered" wording.

Even though both are interchangeable, as PSA explains on site. Being slabbed Authentic is easier to sell than being slabbed Authentic Altered. As many, like OP, get thrown off if Altered is not called out directly.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by Grid

The "Authentic" only designation is to be considered interchangeable with "Authentic Altered". Its right on their website.

From my understanding, and how it used to work (its been years since I submitted anything). If I sent in a card for a grade, and it was trimmed. I'd get the dreaded N1 and the card sent back to me no slab.

If I assumed it was trimmed, altered, colored in ETC. And sent for grading, I could then ask for it to be slabbed Authentic Altered if it failed.

But if I wanted to work around all that, I'd just submit my trimmed card to be authenticated. It would never go to grading, and it would just be slabbed Authentic without the "Altered" wording.

Even though both are interchangeable, as PSA explains on site. Being slabbed Authentic is easier to sell than being slabbed Authentic Altered. As many, like OP, get thrown off if Altered is not called out directly.

thank you for this response.

i passed on the Brady "authentic" card, just couldn't do it. didn't feel comfortable buying a card that was interchangeable with "Authentic altered".

but yes, everything you wrote made sense, especially that last part as a way to skirt around the card being trimmed or something, so just slab it authentic.

[Hellcat]

You answered your own question OP. By the way excellent write-up! I would never purchase an Authentic card because of said reasons already mentioned. PSA is leaving the door open for some dishonest transactions I wish they would change their wording on how they address this issue. It sounds like lawyer speak.

[Stringmusic]

I’ve wanted a Momentum for a while(still do) but have switched my focus to SPX because of all the miscut/altered/authentic grades with Momentum. I’m not even sure PSA will give the card a number grade at this point, only real choice is older BGS slabs which I do not want. Sucks because it’s a beautiful low numbered rookie that is definitely underrated in my opinion.

[IowaCubs1]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

You answered your own question OP. By the way excellent write-up! I would never purchase an Authentic card because of said reasons already mentioned. PSA is leaving the door open for some dishonest transactions I wish they would change their wording on how they address this issue. It sounds like lawyer speak.

To be fair - I "graded" my Mahomes Contenders auto "Authentic" at the National this year because the card had a surface indent that I knew would tank the grade. Otherwise the card is in great shape. With it being a high end card that I think has a ton of upside, I wanted to get it slabbed.

[daveyc1]

all Momentum Brady rookies I have ever seen have the factory miscut on the lower right edge. I dont believe you would ever get one into a numbered holder anymore.

I agree about the "authentic" designation. I have always known it to mean the card itself was original/authentic, but could be tampered with.

[Hellcat]

Originally Posted by IowaCubs1

To be fair - I "graded" my Mahomes Contenders auto "Authentic" at the National this year because the card had a surface indent that I knew would tank the grade. Otherwise the card is in great shape. With it being a high end card that I think has a ton of upside, I wanted to get it slabbed.

You're probably looking at a PSA 6. High end I would still have opted for the numerical grade it removes any concerns of alterations.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

all Momentum Brady rookies I have ever seen have the factory miscut on the lower right edge. I dont believe you would ever get one into a numbered holder anymore.

I agree about the "authentic" designation. I have always known it to mean the card itself was original/authentic, but could be tampered with.

i knew about Contenders, i hadn't heard about Momentum being miscut.

but like i mentioned too, there are two current Brady Momentum rookies up on eBay.

the 1st one is an SGC graded version, that one is "miscut", hence the grade.

the 2nd one supposedly was because the person who asked for the grade didn't get whatever grade they wanted, so it was just labeled as authentic, which to me, is kind of suspect.

the authentic grade because it's interchangeable with "authentic altered", actually kills the value of the card compared to a numerical grade.

look at the value of Contenders for example between a graded numerical card and an authentic grade only.

[oplum29]

i was watching an older video from Geoff Wilson about regrading some of his cards. a couple of things caught my attention.

1- he regraded a 2005 Ovechkin SPA autographed rookie card graded PSA "Authentic". card was spent to Beckett and came back as a 9.5

i can't believe that 1- anybody would submit just for the authentic grade, 2- why was it graded authentic only, 3- how does an authentic that can be interchanged as "authentic altered" end up as a 9.5?

2- he sent in a Juan Soto BGS 9.5 with two subgrades of 10 and two of 9.5. card came back as a PSA 9, so resubmitted the card at a show to Beckett, and it came back as a 9.

so wth happened??? how does a card go from 10, 10, 9.5, and 9.5 subgrades to just a flat out 9????

it makes me wonder about that PSA Authentic 2000 Brady Momentum card...

[kluke84]

Originally Posted by oplum29

i was watching an older video from Geoff Wilson about regrading some of his cards. a couple of things caught my attention.

1- he regraded a 2005 Ovechkin SPA autographed rookie card graded PSA "Authentic". card was spent to Beckett and came back as a 9.5

i can't believe that 1- anybody would submit just for the authentic grade, 2- why was it graded authentic only, 3- how does an authentic that can be interchanged as "authentic altered" end up as a 9.5?

2- he sent in a Juan Soto BGS 9.5 with two subgrades of 10 and two of 9.5. card came back as a PSA 9, so resubmitted the card at a show to Beckett, and it came back as a 9.

so wth happened??? how does a card go from 10, 10, 9.5, and 9.5 subgrades to just a flat out 9????

it makes me wonder about that PSA Authentic 2000 Brady Momentum card...

SP Authentic is a pretty easy card to tell the grade in advance. If someone sent authentic and it graded 9.5 on resub the original submitter most likely had no idea what they were doing.

The other is just evidence that grades are as much individual opinions as anything else. I've got 10s that should have been 8s and too many 9s which should have been 10s. Maybe the grader had a bad day. Or maybe the card caught some damage when cracked for the resub.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by kluke84

SP Authentic is a pretty easy card to tell the grade in advance. If someone sent authentic and it graded 9.5 on resub the original submitter most likely had no idea what they were doing.

The other is just evidence that grades are as much individual opinions as anything else. I've got 10s that should have been 8s and too many 9s which should have been 10s. Maybe the grader had a bad day. Or maybe the card caught some damage when cracked for the resub.

i get what you are saying, the first part makes sense.

but on the 2nd part. the Soto had a grade of 10 centering...and when it came back from Beckett the second time, it was no longer a 10. how that does that happen?