2023 Topps Finest Autograph Scam?

[1977 Cloth]

Something in my looking for a Corbin Carroll autograph from this set made me notice that they don't exist in Blue /150. I cannot prove they don't exist, but I cannot find one that has sold or is for sale.

28 of the Blue /150 non autograph Carroll have sold on ebay.
55 of the Green Variety autos /99 of Carroll have sold on ebay.
13 of the Orange Variety autos /25 of Carroll have sold on ebay

There are more than 1 type of both the green and the orange, but that doesn't change the point.

No blue?

I haven't looked at everyone, but of the big RC cards I could find these players have blue autos.

Harris
Henderson
Yoshida
Senga
Morel
Jung
Outman
Casas

However, I cannot find a single copy of

Carroll
Rutschman (I cannot find Green either)
Alvarez
Volpe
Walker

I didn't look further yet, but that is a minimum of 750 High value chase cards that are not able to be pulled. When the checklist has these players as autos in the set I expect them to be there. While there are some, the parallels for these cards include the Blue parallel and thus I expect to be able to find them too.

I hope I am wrong or I misunderstood the checklist somehow, but I feel I have been mislead. Why not just claim to have 100 Babe Ruth cut autos in there so we buy, because you don't have to actually put them in the boxes?

[Bosoxfan5990]

Scam is not the word to use here.

There is a more than likely chance these cards were never signed by the player and returned for pack out.

Just like Christopher Morel only had base autos in 2021 Bowman Chrome.

[njsportscardguy]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

Scam is not the word to use here.

Respectfully, I beg to differ. If a product is ADVERTISED as having a certain,..well,..."element"....to it, but, in fact; said element is IMPOSSIBLE to attain, well then I don't see how this WOULD NOT be interpretable as...a SCAM.

Yeah; it's basically,... a scam!

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by njsportscardguy

Respectfully, I beg to differ. If a product is ADVERTISED as having a certain,..well,..."element"....to it, but, in fact; said element is IMPOSSIBLE to attain, well then I don't see how this WOULD NOT be interpretable as...a SCAM.

Yeah; it's basically,... a scam!

Always read the small print

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by njsportscardguy

Respectfully, I beg to differ. If a product is ADVERTISED as having a certain,..well,..."element"....to it, but, in fact; said element is IMPOSSIBLE to attain, well then I don't see how this WOULD NOT be interpretable as...a SCAM.

Yeah; it's basically,... a scam!

There is a reason the fine print says the checklist is subject to change. You have to understand going in that when a product relies on players to return cards back to the company, there might be issues. You need to bake that into your understanding of a product. It's not a scam.

[glen87]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Always read the small print

you wouldn't be talking about that part that says...

"Solicitation subject to change. Final odds/players subject to actual product runs."

by any chance would ya

[1977 Cloth]

If that is the case why not just claim all sorts of items. If they know after the fact that they do not have their full allotment of autos back from a player then they should make that announcement at the very least.

Also the Rustchman cards were all redemptions, but no blue redemptions. This still doesn't pass the smell test. You are telling me those 5 players just didn't want to sign and send the blue cards? They were fine with the Green, but Blue is too much?

I don't blame the players. I blame Topps for making a false claim that these are possible pulls when in fact they are not.

[aschade]

This is nothing new Topps has done this for a long time now. They don't have the complete checklist on certain Parallel Autographs. For star wars the better autos are only on the rarer parallels usually 5 or lower. That way everyone just gets some worthless no name autograph, but they can claim you can hit the bigger names. They have done this with Trout autos for some time to keep them more rarer as well. No doubt they didn't make any of the blue autographs you mentioned to keep them harder to pull and its cheaper for them

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

There is a reason the fine print says the checklist is subject to change. You have to understand going in that when a product relies on players to return cards back to the company, there might be issues. You need to bake that into your understanding of a product. It's not a scam.

While I agree with you this company can’t do anybrijf if players don’t sign it seems far more likely topps screwed up somewhere here. The chance that 5+ players just didn’t sign the blue parallels for whatever reason is basically impossible and far more likely they were never sent to the players for whatever reason. Idk what a blue runs exactly, but it’s prob equivalent to topps stealing roughly 100k from collectors

[glen87]

maybe the blue autos are somewhere with the a&g wood minis from a few years ago

[theredmenace]

It sucks but it's also pretty common for autograph parallels. Good news though, all the other parallels go up in value!

2023 Bowman has the same issue with Chrome Rookie Autos. Gunnar Henderson's chrome rookie auto cards are redemptions and based on ebay I don't think the Refractors, Blue Refractors, Atomic Refractors, or Red Refractors made it into the product. As an orange refractor owner I'm pretty happy with that

[1977 Cloth]

Originally Posted by aschade

This is nothing new Topps has done this for a long time now. They don't have the complete checklist on certain Parallel Autographs. For star wars the better autos are only on the rarer parallels usually 5 or lower. That way everyone just gets some worthless no name autograph, but they can claim you can hit the bigger names. They have done this with Trout autos for some time to keep them more rarer as well. No doubt they didn't make any of the blue autographs you mentioned to keep them harder to pull and its cheaper for them

In your example there was never an intent to put the blue autographs in and thus I go back to the word Scam. I can accept that things happen, but in this case this shorting was known from the start and never communicated. Nothing "changed." It seems they never intended to put the blue autographs of those players in the pack out.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

While I agree with you this company can’t do anybrijf if players don’t sign it seems far more likely topps screwed up somewhere here. The chance that 5+ players just didn’t sign the blue parallels for whatever reason is basically impossible and far more likely they were never sent to the players for whatever reason. Idk what a blue runs exactly, but it’s prob equivalent to topps stealing roughly 100k from collectors

A particular card not making the final checklist is not remotely equivalent to topps stealing the value of those cards from collectors. That's a fallacy.

[WallyatJCCards]

Originally Posted by theredmenace

It sucks but it's also pretty common for autograph parallels. Good news though, all the other parallels go up in value!

2023 Bowman has the same issue with Chrome Rookie Autos. Gunnar Henderson's chrome rookie auto cards are redemptions and based on ebay I don't think the Refractors, Blue Refractors, Atomic Refractors, or Red Refractors made it into the product. As an orange refractor owner I'm pretty happy with that

I wonder if someone just misplaces or forgets about certain cards in a shipment or when packing out. Just like random inserts in the same set where a guy signs 5,000 base, 499 refractors, the golds, yellows, oranges, etc and for whatever reason the BLUE auto 3/150 is a redemption, so odd

[1977 Cloth]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

A particular card not making the final checklist is not remotely equivalent to topps stealing the value of those cards from collectors. That's a fallacy.

The card made the checklist. The card never made the pack out. I believe Johnlocke36 is correct. "That 100k in cards we told you all that you could pull.... you really cannot, but you can pull something else." Again, this didn't appear to "change." This appears to be the plan from the outset, and thus misleading at the very least, and fraudulent in my eyes.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by 1977 Cloth

The card made the checklist. The card never made the pack out. I believe Johnlocke36 is correct. "That 100k in cards we told you all that you could pull.... you really cannot, but you can pull something else." Again, this didn't appear to "change." This appears to be the plan from the outset, and thus misleading at the very least, and fraudulent in my eyes.

Whose checklist? The checklist on Topps.com doesn't say anything about the parallels.

[boxbuster7]

Not really surprised considering the dumpster fire that topps has been this year. Nice find OP

[Stech36]

This has been going on forever.

It’s not unintentional most of the time. The best players rarely have all parallels.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by 1977 Cloth

In your example there was never an intent to put the blue autographs in and thus I go back to the word Scam. I can accept that things happen, but in this case this shorting was known from the start and never communicated. Nothing "changed." It seems they never intended to put the blue autographs of those players in the pack out.

It doesn't need to be communicated. The sell sheet doesn't promise that every player will have every color of the rainbow. The checklist that Topps releases also doesn't promise that every player will have every color. There is nothing deceptive about it.

You're lucky it's not 6-7 years ago when some players would have SSP base and no refractors. Those were REALLY tough. At least now it seems like more of an anomaly than a regularity.

[rngrdanny22]

Yikes. This is the "boomer-ist" boomer thread I've read on here in a while...

[theredmenace]

Parallels per player are not explicitly stated but the posted odds for the parallel usually implies that every player on the subset checklist does have that parallel.

[1977 Cloth]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Yikes. This is the "boomer-ist" boomer thread I've read on here in a while...

Does the R stand for Richard?

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

There is a reason the fine print says the checklist is subject to change. You have to understand going in that when a product relies on players to return cards back to the company, there might be issues. You need to bake that into your understanding of a product. It's not a scam.

Agreed.

But it would be nice for Topps/Fanatics to then release this information and/or update the checklist.

Nothing drives collectors crazy more than hunting for cards that are listed on a checklist, but appear not to have been released.

[xTri]

Topps Checklist are always inaccurate, mostly for autos/relics. Like Stech said, this happens on all of Topps' products for a long time. This is one part that I'll give Panini credit to in where they are very exact in their checklist on which auto parallel a player has as well as the exact serial number.

[JWBlue]

Originally Posted by xTri

Topps Checklist are always inaccurate, mostly for autos/relics. Like Stech said, this happens on all of Topps' products for a long time. This is one part that I'll give Panini credit to in where they are very exact in their checklist on which auto parallel a player has as well as the exact serial number.

I have been looking for a Brock Purdy 2023 Panini Score Auto. He is on the checklist as having a base auto and all the parallels. One auto has surfaced since release the end of August. A "/5 or less" that was actually a /1. I have a feeling that it will be the only one.