1964-67 Philadelphia Football Cards

[Wisztradamous]

Hey guys, so I bought a fairly good size Vintage collection (mostly 50s football) and a few of the 1964-67 Philadelphia sets were amongst it. I sent a bunch to get graded (Butkus, Sayers, Hayes Rookies, Jim Brown, Bart Starr, etc.). I've been lucky and received some good grades 6s and 7s, an 8 here and there (all the sets are in great shape).

My question pertains to the edges. Now, I am unsure, but I vaguely recall these cards being cut with a wire, does this sound correct?

The reason I ask is my '67 Gale Sayers came back a 7 but the front edges has some chipping. This is the Yellow border and if the wire cutting is true, do grading companies account for this and its normalcy?

Thanks

[smanzari]

Most vintage stuff was wire cut; some products just had workers a little more diligent in changing the wires than others. Sounds like they do consider it, if you got a 7 with edge-chipping (typically around a 5/EX if it has that)

[discodanman45]

Which grading company did you use?

There is typically big variance on how individual graders approach factory cuts of cards. You could send that 1967 Sayers back to the same company that gave you a 7 and it could come back as a 5 with different graders evaluating the card. There was a poster here that sent an OPC Gretzky rookie to PSA and SGC multiple times each I think, and they got a wildly different grade each time because of how individuals treated the rough cut on that card.

[Wisztradamous]

Originally Posted by smanzari

Most vintage stuff was wire cut; some products just had workers a little more diligent in changing the wires than others. Sounds like they do consider it, if you got a 7 with edge-chipping (typically around a 5/EX if it has that)

Thanks for the info.

[Wisztradamous]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Which grading company did you use?

There is typically big variance on how individual graders approach factory cuts of cards. You could send that 1967 Sayers back to the same company that gave you a 7 and it could come back as a 5 with different graders evaluating the card. There was a poster here that sent an OPC Gretzky rookie to PSA and SGC multiple times each I think, and they got a wildly different grade each time because of how individuals treated the rough cut on that card.

It was SGC and the several I've sent came back between 6-7 (for the 1967's), but all with similar chipping. It doesn't seem like it was due to the test of time.. it just seems naturally cut that way.

[estang]

I've found the 67 Philly set has a rougher cut than any other with more cards having centering issues. The 66 would be next on quality issues. 65s seem to be the nicest with 64 not far behind...

If you decide to sell some of the commons, LMK. I'm building raw sets in "clean" NM-looking condition.

[HeyRelaxGuy]

Originally Posted by smanzari

Most vintage stuff was wire cut; some products just had workers a little more diligent in changing the wires than others. Sounds like they do consider it, if you got a 7 with edge-chipping (typically around a 5/EX if it has that)

Most collectors here in Canada think vintage cards were cut with wires too because O-Pee-Chee cards have very rough edges, however, I later found this to be false. I spoke with a former manager at the O-Pee-Chee plant in London and he told me that they had different cutting machines on the floor. There were machines that cut two strips of cards at a time and those produced rougher edges. The machines that cut one strip produced the cleaner cuts. Again, no wires.

[estang]

Interesting on the wires.

While no expert in paper cutting, using wires didn't make much sense to me. Sharp, metal blades make a lot more sense.

[Wisztradamous]

Originally Posted by estang

I've found the 67 Philly set has a rougher cut than any other with more cards having centering issues. The 66 would be next on quality issues. 65s seem to be the nicest with 64 not far behind...

If you decide to sell some of the commons, LMK. I'm building raw sets in "clean" NM-looking condition.

I would be willing to break up the sets if it was worth it, PM me. Which years do you need? I have (1) '64 set, (2) '66 sets, and (1) '67 set.

And thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated.

[estang]

PM sent. Thx.