True Rookie Card is What??

3Bucks · 03-24-2023, 10:22 AM

Sorry for the newbie post, but my sons and I are just dipping our toes into baseball so have a couple questions since it seems more confusing than basketball or football.

What's considered the first rookie card, or true rookie card these days? Seems like Bowman Draft or Bowman 1st Edition or Bowman Chrome have the first copies of someone's first official MLB card, but am I off base? Would most rather have their first Topps RC as the true RC?

And if it's Bowman, is there a big difference value wise or desire wise between them? Just looking at base RC's, not all the colors and inserts and stuff.

Thanks for the feedback and help! It was much easier collecting baseball in the 80's when Topps was the only game in town, or at most Topps, Fleer and Donruss!

theshowandme · 03-24-2023, 10:24 AM

ThoseBackPages · 03-24-2023, 10:24 AM

a myth

glen87 · 03-24-2023, 10:26 AM

notoriousrmb · 03-24-2023, 10:29 AM

Baseball is very confusing and there are exceptions here....but as a general guideline:

Bowman products are a player's first prospect card, first licensed card, but NOT a true RC.

Topps cards with the RC logo are the first true RC. (Although Bowman releases sometimes will contain RCs as well, just look for the RC logo)

Both first prospect cards and first rookie cards have their audiences and detractors.

Topps has messed up in the past and mislabeled cards by adding or forgetting "RC" or "1st Bowman" logos on both types of cards.

PLENTY of ifs, ands and buts...but this should get you started.

JWBlue · 03-24-2023, 10:29 AM

OhioLawyerF5 · 03-24-2023, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Bucks

Sorry for the newbie post, but my sons and I are just dipping our toes into baseball so have a couple questions since it seems more confusing than basketball or football.

What's considered the first rookie card, or true rookie card these days? Seems like Bowman Draft or Bowman 1st Edition or Bowman Chrome have the first copies of someone's first official MLB card, but am I off base? Would most rather have their first Topps RC as the true RC?

And if it's Bowman, is there a big difference value wise or desire wise between them? Just looking at base RC's, not all the colors and inserts and stuff.

Thanks for the feedback and help! It was much easier collecting baseball in the 80's when Topps was the only game in town, or at most Topps, Fleer and Donruss!

In trying to give an answer that won't spark a huge debate, just understand that the whole concept of "rookie card" in baseball is less important than other sports. I mean, it still matters what a person considers a rookie card, but that the significance of it means different things to different people.

In baseball, there are just so many early cards to choose from (minor league cards, prospect cards, major league cards (with or without the rookie logo), etc...) So what you appear to be asking is less about what is considered a true rookie card, and what constitutes the most significant or collectible cards for a player.

Generally speaking, a player's most valuable and significant cards are their "1st Bowman" cards. Those are not "rookie cards" to most people. But they still tend to be the most sought after.

Beyond that, the rookie logo cards also carry a lot of weight and value in the hobby (whether a person considers it a "true rookie" or not). Once you delve into rookie logo cards, there is a bit of a hierarchy of collectibility and value. Flagship Topps and Topps Chrome rookie logo cards and autographs seem to be the most desirable and tend to be the iconic image people will think of down the road when thinking of a player's rookie card.

Of course everyone will come here with their own opinion. But the general rule of thumb will remain, 1st Bowmans and Topps rookie logo cards will be king, and when they aren't, it's the exception not the rule.

LittleJimmies · 03-24-2023, 10:32 AM

Short answer - Cards with RC logo are rookie cards. Bowman cards with 1st logo are not technically rookie cards because they aren't MLB players yet. "Rookie" is a term used exclusively for big league players. It doesn't matter across Bowman, Bowman Chrome, and Bowman Draft when a players 1st appears.

Long answer - Spend the next 7 weeks reading the 2021 Bowman's Best thread and every other thread where the topic came up (which is every thread).

JWBlue · 03-24-2023, 10:32 AM

Honestly, I feel the answer is whatever someone feels like it should be.

I used to think the 1985 Topps McGwire was his RC. But not so sure any more. It was his first widely available card but does that make it a RC?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Bucks

Sorry for the newbie post, but my sons and I are just dipping our toes into baseball so have a couple questions since it seems more confusing than basketball or football.

What's considered the first rookie card, or true rookie card these days? Seems like Bowman Draft or Bowman 1st Edition or Bowman Chrome have the first copies of someone's first official MLB card, but am I off base? Would most rather have their first Topps RC as the true RC?

And if it's Bowman, is there a big difference value wise or desire wise between them? Just looking at base RC's, not all the colors and inserts and stuff.

Thanks for the feedback and help! It was much easier collecting baseball in the 80's when Topps was the only game in town, or at most Topps, Fleer and Donruss!

I consider and most do consider Bowmans as prospect cards. Completely different category.

3Bucks · 03-24-2023, 10:44 AM

Wow, didn't know I was opening a can of worms here! Sorry for that. I appreciate the responses and I'm starting to understand. Being "old school" I probably tend to lean towards the original Topps base with RC on it as being rookie, but then I see all these different Bowman and Elite and other brands with prospects having cards and was just curious if that is the highly sought after and rookie now?

So for guys like Trout, Ohtani, Franco, Rodriguez would the majority consider their Topps RC to be the one card to own if you had to choose? Similar to 89 UD for Griffey?

base set · 03-24-2023, 10:47 AM

A bottomless argument. Have fun.

Hunter · 03-24-2023, 10:52 AM

ThoseBackPages · 03-24-2023, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Bucks

Wow, didn't know I was opening a can of worms here! Sorry for that. I appreciate the responses and I'm starting to understand. Being "old school" I probably tend to lean towards the original Topps base with RC on it as being rookie, but then I see all these different Bowman and Elite and other brands with prospects having cards and was just curious if that is the highly sought after and rookie now?

So for guys like Trout, Ohtani, Franco, Rodriguez would the majority consider their Topps RC to be the one card to own if you had to choose? Similar to 89 UD for Griffey?

yea, the "Rookie Card" talk can get pretty heated around here.

for me, these would be their "go to" Rookie Cards if they have more than one Rookie Card (Wander and JRod only have one Rookie Card, it's 2021 Bowman's Best), and someone had to only own one.

Trout: 2011 Flagship Update #US175
Ohtani: 2018 Flagship #700

OhioLawyerF5 · 03-24-2023, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Bucks

Wow, didn't know I was opening a can of worms here! Sorry for that. I appreciate the responses and I'm starting to understand. Being "old school" I probably tend to lean towards the original Topps base with RC on it as being rookie, but then I see all these different Bowman and Elite and other brands with prospects having cards and was just curious if that is the highly sought after and rookie now?

So for guys like Trout, Ohtani, Franco, Rodriguez would the majority consider their Topps RC to be the one card to own if you had to choose? Similar to 89 UD for Griffey?

I think the answer to that question is going to be a case by case basis. As I mentioned, generally speaking, if you can only have ONE card of a player, most collectors would choose the 1st Bowman Chrome auto (obviously not all because many collectors hate prospect cards). But each case is different. The 3 you named are good examples.

With Trout, his 2011 Topps Update rookie logo card is very iconic (much like the 89 UD Griffey). It defines a whole generation of collectors. Plus, with Trout, he has very few rookie logo cards, so it gives the ones he does have a bit more hobby weight. So while his 1st Bowman cards are extremely desired, it can be argued that his rookie logo Topps Update is just as sought after.

But with Ohtani, he never had a 1st Bowman card. So his rookie logo cards are the go-to for his cards.

Then Jrod is a bit more traditional. His 1st Bowman will likely be the most sought after and iconic, with one of the Topps releases from 2022 with the rookie logo likely taking an iconic perch nearby.

BlowoutBuzz · 03-24-2023, 10:54 AM

A Rookie Card is a definition ... and it's applied across the board regardless of sport and, generally speaking, it's a definition applied when card companies go to add RC logos. There's no tie to value and there are plenty of flubs, wrong hot takes and more.

Poke around here and you'll find countless rights and wrongs on this one.

SaveMeTheGum · 03-24-2023, 10:55 AM

I'll accept any answer that does not include "Bowman's Best"...

eastbayak · 03-24-2023, 10:55 AM

A true rookie card looks like this:

OhioLawyerF5 · 03-24-2023, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlowoutBuzz

A Rookie Card is a definition ... and it's applied across the board regardless of sport and, generally speaking, it's a definition applied when card companies go to add RC logos. There's no tie to value and there are plenty of flubs, wrong hot takes and more.

Poke around here and you'll find countless rights and wrongs on this one.

Ironic that this wrong take talks about wrong takes.

There is no universal definition of rookie card, nor any definitive source for such a definition. Anyone claiming there is is engaging in the fallacy of appealing to authority, an authority that doesn't exist.

Please don't interject this thread with that debate, when OP is clearly just trying to learn the lay of the land and understand what cards in baseball are the most collectible. Someone's definition of "true rookie" card is completely irrelevant to that discussion.

rats60 · 03-24-2023, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWBlue

Honestly, I feel the answer is whatever someone feels like it should be.

I used to think the 1985 Topps McGwire was his RC. But not so sure any more. It was his first widely available card but does that make it a RC?

I consider and most do consider Bowmans as prospect cards. Completely different category.

It still is his rookie card. A players rookie card is his first regular issue card in a licensed nationally distributed major league set. The caveat is that current Bowman cards of non major league players cannot be part of the regular set, but inserts and inserts are not rookie cards.

SupermanBrandon · 03-24-2023, 11:03 AM

Best bet (almost every time) is to just follow the RC on Topps cards. Every once in a while, a player/card will divert from that. But the hobby mostly follows the RC (right or wrong). Bowman cards before the RC are prospect cards...not rookie cards.

OhioLawyerF5 · 03-24-2023, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

It still is his rookie card. A players rookie card is his first regular issue card in a licensed nationally distributed major league set. The caveat is that current Bowman cards of non major league players cannot be part of the regular set, but inserts and inserts are not rookie cards.

This is the type of take I was referring to: those who insist the the baseball card gods chiseled the definition of a rookie card into a stone tablet with their finger. They give this definition as though their (or Beckett's, or anyone else's) view on the subject is superior to anyone else's.

Jolten Joe · 03-24-2023, 11:12 AM

Very simple it's whatever the collector community as a whole decides it is. For 99% of players it's the first pack issued card with a RC Logo. Every now and again you'll get a small minority that are heavily invested in a particular card without a RC Logo and try to convince the other 99% they are wrong and it usually goes very poorly for them.

oldgoldy97 · 03-24-2023, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastbayak

A true rookie card looks like this:

I notice you didn’t pick Wander.

Bcr · 03-24-2023, 11:14 AM

OP, you are going to get a lot of different opinions on this, but that really sums up the answer to your question. It's all an opinion. Some people follow Becketts definition, others follow the Topps RC logo, and some even think Bowmans 1sts are rookie cards. Anyone who claims their version is the only correct one I would steer clear from.

Form your own opinion and have fun collecting!

JWBlue · 03-24-2023, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bcr

OP, you are going to get a lot of different opinions on this, but that really sums up the answer to your question. It's all an opinion. Some people follow Becketts definition, others follow the Topps RC logo, and some even think Bowmans 1sts are rookie cards. Anyone who claims their version is the only correct one I would steer clear from.

Form your own opinion and have fun collecting!

/thread

03-24-2023, 10:22 AM	#1
3Bucks Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: The Badger State Posts: 2,453	True Rookie Card is What?? Sorry for the newbie post, but my sons and I are just dipping our toes into baseball so have a couple questions since it seems more confusing than basketball or football. What's considered the first rookie card, or true rookie card these days? Seems like Bowman Draft or Bowman 1st Edition or Bowman Chrome have the first copies of someone's first official MLB card, but am I off base? Would most rather have their first Topps RC as the true RC? And if it's Bowman, is there a big difference value wise or desire wise between them? Just looking at base RC's, not all the colors and inserts and stuff. Thanks for the feedback and help! It was much easier collecting baseball in the 80's when Topps was the only game in town, or at most Topps, Fleer and Donruss! __________________ RESIDENT MILWAUKEE BUCKS COLLECTOR FEAR THE DEER!! https://www.flickr.com/photos/187518172@N07/albums/with/72157713599227276

03-24-2023, 10:24 AM	#3
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 90,398 ThoseBackPages	a myth __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

03-24-2023, 10:26 AM	#4
glen87 Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: VERMONT Posts: 74,038 glen87 glen87	__________________ collecting James Madison University players of all sports JMU cards: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jmucards/ other cards: https://www.flickr.com/photos/glen87/albums

03-24-2023, 10:44 AM	#10
3Bucks Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: The Badger State Posts: 2,453	Wow, didn't know I was opening a can of worms here! Sorry for that. I appreciate the responses and I'm starting to understand. Being "old school" I probably tend to lean towards the original Topps base with RC on it as being rookie, but then I see all these different Bowman and Elite and other brands with prospects having cards and was just curious if that is the highly sought after and rookie now? So for guys like Trout, Ohtani, Franco, Rodriguez would the majority consider their Topps RC to be the one card to own if you had to choose? Similar to 89 UD for Griffey? __________________ RESIDENT MILWAUKEE BUCKS COLLECTOR FEAR THE DEER!! https://www.flickr.com/photos/187518172@N07/albums/with/72157713599227276

03-24-2023, 10:52 AM	#12
Hunter Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Alabama and Georgia Posts: 1,267 Chipper_slabs	__________________ Instagram: Chipper_slabs

03-24-2023, 10:24 AM	#2
theshowandme Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 5,091 theshowandme nova_cards

03-24-2023, 10:29 AM	#5
notoriousrmb Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6,837	Baseball is very confusing and there are exceptions here....but as a general guideline: Bowman products are a player's first prospect card, first licensed card, but NOT a true RC. Topps cards with the RC logo are the first true RC. (Although Bowman releases sometimes will contain RCs as well, just look for the RC logo) Both first prospect cards and first rookie cards have their audiences and detractors. Topps has messed up in the past and mislabeled cards by adding or forgetting "RC" or "1st Bowman" logos on both types of cards. PLENTY of ifs, ands and buts...but this should get you started.

03-24-2023, 10:29 AM	#6
JWBlue Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 9,827

03-24-2023, 10:32 AM	#8
LittleJimmies Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,552	Short answer - Cards with RC logo are rookie cards. Bowman cards with 1st logo are not technically rookie cards because they aren't MLB players yet. "Rookie" is a term used exclusively for big league players. It doesn't matter across Bowman, Bowman Chrome, and Bowman Draft when a players 1st appears. Long answer - Spend the next 7 weeks reading the 2021 Bowman's Best thread and every other thread where the topic came up (which is every thread).

03-24-2023, 10:47 AM	#11
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,524	A bottomless argument. Have fun.

03-24-2023, 10:54 AM	#15
BlowoutBuzz Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 14,089	A Rookie Card is a definition ... and it's applied across the board regardless of sport and, generally speaking, it's a definition applied when card companies go to add RC logos. There's no tie to value and there are plenty of flubs, wrong hot takes and more. Poke around here and you'll find countless rights and wrongs on this one. __________________ www.blowoutbuzz.com >>><<< Got something cool or interesting that might be worth a story? Know someone whose collection could be profiled? Send me a DM.

03-24-2023, 10:55 AM	#16
SaveMeTheGum Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: NH --> CA --> SC Posts: 16,711 Cardboard_Dynamite CardboardDynamite	I'll accept any answer that does not include "Bowman's Best"... __________________ Pay fast. Ship fast. Deal with people honestly. IG: CardboardDynamite

03-24-2023, 10:55 AM	#17
eastbayak Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 16,484 eastbayak	A true rookie card looks like this:

03-24-2023, 11:03 AM	#20
SupermanBrandon Banned Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: TN Posts: 15,843	Best bet (almost every time) is to just follow the RC on Topps cards. Every once in a while, a player/card will divert from that. But the hobby mostly follows the RC (right or wrong). Bowman cards before the RC are prospect cards...not rookie cards.

03-24-2023, 11:12 AM	#22
Jolten Joe Banned - PBM Join Date: Dec 2022 Posts: 1,666	Very simple it's whatever the collector community as a whole decides it is. For 99% of players it's the first pack issued card with a RC Logo. Every now and again you'll get a small minority that are heavily invested in a particular card without a RC Logo and try to convince the other 99% they are wrong and it usually goes very poorly for them.

03-24-2023, 11:14 AM	#24
Bcr Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 2,779	OP, you are going to get a lot of different opinions on this, but that really sums up the answer to your question. It's all an opinion. Some people follow Becketts definition, others follow the Topps RC logo, and some even think Bowmans 1sts are rookie cards. Anyone who claims their version is the only correct one I would steer clear from. Form your own opinion and have fun collecting!