'86 Fleer Jordan card grading Question

MJkid67 · 11-24-2022, 07:21 AM

Hi all,

Quick background and then question...

Visiting my uncle a couple months ago and we started talking cards. He's a longtime casual collector of basketball cards only and he starts pulling out shoeboxes of mostly 90's era wax junk.

He then pulls out a 4" tall stack of '86-'87 Fleer. I tell him to place that pile down on the table and we start carefully going though each card. Well, he pulls out a Jordan and it looks a bit off center but otherwise great.

We decide to bring it to a recent card show north of Boston that Beckett is attending and submit it there.

We get it back and it comes back with a final grade of 8. The subgrades are as follows:

Centering: 7.5
Edges: 9.0
Corners: 9.5
Surface: 8.5

Researching Ebay sold's looks like it's worth about $5k.

What is your opinion on submitting it to PSA for crossover grading with a minimum grade of 9? If it came back with the 9 PSA it would cost $1,000 for premium 1 grading because the card should sell for between $14-$17k.

I don't think the card would reach a 10 grade from PSA because the centering is off by just a bit too much.

Lastly, I want to try this because I'm under the belief that PSA is a little more forgiving on centering and that is the only issue holding this card back.

What are your thoughts?

mjohnatgt · 11-24-2022, 07:24 AM

Crossover no. Not a chance. Cracked? Probably not. PSA is wildly inconsistent in their grading. If you're willing to take an 8 from PSA, submit raw on a lower service level.

MJkid67 · 11-24-2022, 07:37 AM

Why do you dismiss crossover? Too much of a gamble?

mjohnatgt · 11-24-2022, 07:57 AM

If you were a PSA grader looking at a BGS 8 slab, what would be your pre-disposition on reviewing the card?

Davis · 11-24-2022, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

If you were a PSA grader looking at a BGS 8 slab, what would be your pre-disposition on reviewing the card?

This ^. PSA grader is gonna see the 7.5 centering and grade it a 7 or 8.

If you have a pic of the card it would be helpful to assess

Chy · 11-24-2022, 12:13 PM

No chance of psa 9 with that centering. PSA doesn't miss on centering, especially for an 86 MJ. You're lucky to get what you've got. Just sell it.

PSA2Pac · 11-24-2022, 12:25 PM

It comes down to this:
You’d be hard pressed to find a grader that would, look past the BGS grade/sub grades first, to then be so confident looking at the card in a slab that they’re 100% positive that they will crack the slab and not find any issues they overlooked initially when they graded it housed between two thick pieces of plastic. Nobody could ever confidently come to that conclusion before cracking it out of the slab.

You gotta crack it to even have a fighting chance, and even then it might be a waste in this instance

ReggieBush22 · 11-24-2022, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJkid67

Hi all,

Quick background and then question...

Visiting my uncle a couple months ago and we started talking cards. He's a longtime casual collector of basketball cards only and he starts pulling out shoeboxes of mostly 90's era wax junk.

He then pulls out a 4" tall stack of '86-'87 Fleer. I tell him to place that pile down on the table and we start carefully going though each card. Well, he pulls out a Jordan and it looks a bit off center but otherwise great.

We decide to bring it to a recent card show north of Boston that Beckett is attending and submit it there.

We get it back and it comes back with a final grade of 8. The subgrades are as follows:

Centering: 7.5
Edges: 9.0
Corners: 9.5
Surface: 8.5

Researching Ebay sold's looks like it's worth about $5k.

What is your opinion on submitting it to PSA for crossover grading with a minimum grade of 9? If it came back with the 9 PSA it would cost $1,000 for premium 1 grading because the card should sell for between $14-$17k.

I don't think the card would reach a 10 grade from PSA because the centering is off by just a bit too much.

Lastly, I want to try this because I'm under the belief that PSA is a little more forgiving on centering and that is the only issue holding this card back.

What are your thoughts?

Like all said, no chance of a crossover 9. You're best bet is to crack and submit and hope for an 8.

But post a clear pic of the card. Maybe it was undergraded or vice versa.

MJkid67 · 11-24-2022, 01:11 PM

I'll see my uncle this weekend and upload a picture then. Thanks for all the responses.

Again, I was hoping PSA would grade more leniently on centering and reward the high corner and edging grades.

mjohnatgt · 11-24-2022, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJkid67

Again, I was hoping PSA would grade more leniently on centering and reward the high corner and edging grades.

On a 2006 base Topps Ichiro Suzuki, maybe. On a Fleer MJ? Unlikely. Not all cards are judged the same, based on their results.

aggie4ever · 11-24-2022, 05:12 PM

Without a picture, no one can give you a good opinion. Just based on the sub-grades, very little chance of crossing to a PSA 9. Maybe if centering was 8 or 8.5, and surface was a 9. But both centering and surface being less than 9 makes it tough, even if PSA is a little more lenient with centering.

Will be interesting to see how the centering is, based on the 7.5 subgrade. Is it off in both directions, or just one?

Skipscards · 11-24-2022, 06:09 PM

Anything pre-1990 is going to be harder. PSA will look at that BGS slab and say, “we’re the experts on older cards. Here’s your 6.”

glen87 · 11-24-2022, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Anything pre-1990 is going to be harder. PSA will look at that BGS slab and say, “we’re the experts on older cards. Here’s your 6.”

this.

Chy · 11-24-2022, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Anything pre-1990 is going to be harder. PSA will look at that BGS slab and say, “we’re the experts on older cards. Here’s your 6.”

And keep your $1,000 for the trouble, too.

CxL · 11-25-2022, 01:06 PM

Big brain here, but it would be a lot more helpful if there was a picture. I know I know, wild concept.

rohara99 · 11-25-2022, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aggie4ever

Without a picture, no one can give you a good opinion.

This.

rfgilles · 11-26-2022, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

On a 2006 base Topps Ichiro Suzuki, maybe. On a Fleer MJ? Unlikely. Not all cards are judged the same, based on their results.

But they should be.

MJkid67 · 11-27-2022, 01:30 PM

Man of my word...

SupermanBrandon · 11-27-2022, 03:45 PM

PSA 8 if you're lucky!

MJkid67 · 11-27-2022, 04:00 PM

PSA 8? I looked at a half dozen PSA 9's that sold on eBay and the centering on this card is right in line with those?

If I'm lucky???

mjohnatgt · 11-27-2022, 04:30 PM

What are the cert numbers on those cards? Or flip styles? PSA does not grade every card the same, and definitely hasn't over the last 30 years.

Just eyeballing it, I'm seeing 60/40 left to right and about 58/42 top to bottom. While it's within the tolerance even for a PSA 10, it is off in both directions and more likely to get an 8 from PSA, especially expecting there is some kind of scratch or dimple on the surface (8.5 subgrade).

You're still better off cracking it out rather than sending it in, in the BGS holder.

MJkid67 · 11-27-2022, 04:42 PM

mjohnatgt,

Where are you seeing the surface imperfection?

mjohnatgt · 11-27-2022, 04:49 PM

I cannot see one, but BGS did, right? They gave it an 8.5 subgrade.

MJkid67 · 11-27-2022, 05:23 PM

Oh, I thought you saw one.

I did not wipe the card surface down before I submitted it, so hopefully it was just surface "dirt". I was too afraid I might damage it.

rfgilles · 11-27-2022, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJkid67

Oh, I thought you saw one.

I did not wipe the card surface down before I submitted it, so hopefully it was just surface "dirt". I was too afraid I might damage it.

You are having a hard time accepting what BGS and others are telling you.

It isn't surface "dirt".

11-24-2022, 07:21 AM	#1
MJkid67 Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Walpole, MA Posts: 35 monkeybox2001	'86 Fleer Jordan card grading Question Hi all, Quick background and then question... Visiting my uncle a couple months ago and we started talking cards. He's a longtime casual collector of basketball cards only and he starts pulling out shoeboxes of mostly 90's era wax junk. He then pulls out a 4" tall stack of '86-'87 Fleer. I tell him to place that pile down on the table and we start carefully going though each card. Well, he pulls out a Jordan and it looks a bit off center but otherwise great. We decide to bring it to a recent card show north of Boston that Beckett is attending and submit it there. We get it back and it comes back with a final grade of 8. The subgrades are as follows: Centering: 7.5 Edges: 9.0 Corners: 9.5 Surface: 8.5 Researching Ebay sold's looks like it's worth about $5k. What is your opinion on submitting it to PSA for crossover grading with a minimum grade of 9? If it came back with the 9 PSA it would cost $1,000 for premium 1 grading because the card should sell for between $14-$17k. I don't think the card would reach a 10 grade from PSA because the centering is off by just a bit too much. Lastly, I want to try this because I'm under the belief that PSA is a little more forgiving on centering and that is the only issue holding this card back. What are your thoughts?

11-24-2022, 06:09 PM	#12
Skipscards Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: In Tribute To The Great Ryno Posts: 30,156 jlankf2 jmp4	Anything pre-1990 is going to be harder. PSA will look at that BGS slab and say, “we’re the experts on older cards. Here’s your 6.” __________________ Go Royals!! #RoyalsIn2015 <---It Happened!! #TEAMZinck Sometimes it is astounding that we are able to persist in a world so full of morons.

11-27-2022, 01:30 PM	#18
MJkid67 Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Walpole, MA Posts: 35 monkeybox2001	Man of my word... Attached Thumbnails

11-24-2022, 07:24 AM	#2
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,657 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	Crossover no. Not a chance. Cracked? Probably not. PSA is wildly inconsistent in their grading. If you're willing to take an 8 from PSA, submit raw on a lower service level.

11-24-2022, 07:37 AM	#3
MJkid67 Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Walpole, MA Posts: 35 monkeybox2001	Why do you dismiss crossover? Too much of a gamble?

11-24-2022, 07:57 AM	#4
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,657 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	If you were a PSA grader looking at a BGS 8 slab, what would be your pre-disposition on reviewing the card?

11-24-2022, 12:13 PM	#6
Chy Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 130	No chance of psa 9 with that centering. PSA doesn't miss on centering, especially for an 86 MJ. You're lucky to get what you've got. Just sell it.

11-24-2022, 12:25 PM	#7
PSA2Pac Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 3,893	It comes down to this: You’d be hard pressed to find a grader that would, look past the BGS grade/sub grades first, to then be so confident looking at the card in a slab that they’re 100% positive that they will crack the slab and not find any issues they overlooked initially when they graded it housed between two thick pieces of plastic. Nobody could ever confidently come to that conclusion before cracking it out of the slab. You gotta crack it to even have a fighting chance, and even then it might be a waste in this instance

11-24-2022, 01:11 PM	#9
MJkid67 Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Walpole, MA Posts: 35 monkeybox2001	I'll see my uncle this weekend and upload a picture then. Thanks for all the responses. Again, I was hoping PSA would grade more leniently on centering and reward the high corner and edging grades.

11-24-2022, 05:12 PM	#11
aggie4ever Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 6,792 aggie4ever	Without a picture, no one can give you a good opinion. Just based on the sub-grades, very little chance of crossing to a PSA 9. Maybe if centering was 8 or 8.5, and surface was a 9. But both centering and surface being less than 9 makes it tough, even if PSA is a little more lenient with centering. Will be interesting to see how the centering is, based on the 7.5 subgrade. Is it off in both directions, or just one?

11-25-2022, 01:06 PM	#15
CxL Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,686	Big brain here, but it would be a lot more helpful if there was a picture. I know I know, wild concept.

11-27-2022, 03:45 PM	#19
SupermanBrandon Banned Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: TN Posts: 15,843	PSA 8 if you're lucky!

11-27-2022, 04:00 PM	#20
MJkid67 Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Walpole, MA Posts: 35 monkeybox2001	PSA 8? I looked at a half dozen PSA 9's that sold on eBay and the centering on this card is right in line with those? If I'm lucky???

11-27-2022, 04:30 PM	#21
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,657 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	What are the cert numbers on those cards? Or flip styles? PSA does not grade every card the same, and definitely hasn't over the last 30 years. Just eyeballing it, I'm seeing 60/40 left to right and about 58/42 top to bottom. While it's within the tolerance even for a PSA 10, it is off in both directions and more likely to get an 8 from PSA, especially expecting there is some kind of scratch or dimple on the surface (8.5 subgrade). You're still better off cracking it out rather than sending it in, in the BGS holder.

11-27-2022, 04:42 PM	#22
MJkid67 Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Walpole, MA Posts: 35 monkeybox2001	mjohnatgt, Where are you seeing the surface imperfection?

11-27-2022, 04:49 PM	#23
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,657 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	I cannot see one, but BGS did, right? They gave it an 8.5 subgrade.

11-27-2022, 05:23 PM	#24
MJkid67 Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Walpole, MA Posts: 35 monkeybox2001	Oh, I thought you saw one. I did not wipe the card surface down before I submitted it, so hopefully it was just surface "dirt". I was too afraid I might damage it.