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BASKETBALL Post your Basketball Cards Hobby Talk |
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#1 |
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This post is meant to be an attempt to reinvigorate (and, really, is an homage) the old-school BO/HobbyKings days when the message boards were filled with rich, informed, and detailed posts about our hobby. Also, please consider this a solicitation for more information because the true story of this card is incomplete. I am truly hoping there are others out there who may have bits of information for me to follow, as I attempt to fully understand this card’s story. Big shout-out to DeadShot who did attempt to gather information on my behalf (detailed below). The ’94 Finest #23 Jordan has less known about it than any other card I have ever owned. I will do my best to lay out what I know (facts) vs. what was told to me second-hand or is speculation.
To begin, it is important to note that this card is much different than most prototypes or proofs we've seen in the market before. For example, the most famous of all proof cards – the 1977 Topps Reggie Jackson Oriole’s proof has a blank back, as do most proof cards. On the 1994 #23 Finest Jordan, outside of small artistic changes, the card is exactly the same as the #45 issued card - front and back, and that is why I’ve had such a difficult time determining its true intention inside Topps HQ and what this card should be referred to as. Let's start with the photo since it is the only reason I’m writing a 4-page paper on Jordan’s 1994 Finest base card. I have not been able to track down the exact image of Michael Jordan that Topps used for this card, but I've been able to determine that the photo they used is from the 1991-92 season. In November of 1991, Jerry Reinsdorf's personal assistant, Sheri Berto, died from complications during routine surgery. Starting on Nov. 30th of 1991, the Bulls would wear a black shoulder band for the remainder of the season in her memory. In the prototype/proof/#23 variation (whatever you want to call it), the black shoulder band is there. In the #45 pack-issued version, it has been airbrushed away. (Below I will show both the fronts and backs of the #23 jersey variation and the #45 pack issued card for comparison) I'm not sure why they made that decision, but Topps decided to remove it from the original photo. And most importantly they also had to change his jersey number once it was known that he would return and wear the #45. 1994 Finest Jordan wearing #45 - pack issued ![]() ![]() 1994 Finest Jordan wearing #23 - prototype ![]() ![]() On the back of the card there are two, small difference as well. The #23 prototype is missing the "Skin Protector Pat. Pending" print on the bottom back of the card. This has to just have been an oversight at first that was later corrected since all of Series 1 has it on the backs. Another correction they had to make were on his made field goals stat. On the #23 it shows he had 8089 FGM which was lowered by 10 to the correct 8079 FGM on his pack issued #45 card. That's it though. The rest of the #23 card, including the stock and peel, are exactly the same as the pack issued example. (I'll address the lines across the peel later) One other oddity to this card is that when the TPG’s do slab it, they won’t put a designation on the flip. Why? I have no idea. They just lump it into the population report with the rest of the 1994 Finest base #331’s, which is why it has been so difficult for collectors to identify its true population. I've reached out to Deadshot on all of these points since he did a great interview (back in 2019, I think) with the artistic director of SGW who invented and helped produce the "chrome" cards for Topps. He hasn't heard back from the gentleman, but hopefully he will in the future. So why is this card not a “promo?” If you are old enough to remember, Jordan unretired – out of the blue - midway through the 1994-95 NBA season. It was March 18th, 1995 and since he was back in the league, that meant Topps could produce Jordan cards again! Topps was scrambling to mock up a Jordan card for their premier set at that time - Finest series 2 which would be released later that season (If anyone knows the release date, that would be awesome. Blowout has the release date listed as June 30th, 1994 but that's impossible) You can tell Topps had no idea Jordan would return because 1994 Topps Finest – which was meant to be a 330-card set, is now a 331-card set with Jordan being the last card. 1994-95 Finest has 165 cards in series one and 166 cards in series 2 because of the addition of Jordan. And if you look at the uncut sheets of Finest you will notice they are 11 x 10 = 110 cards a sheet, so 3 sheets would cover the set. The funny thing is, since adding a card would have messed up their printer plates, the #331 Jordan was printed on a sheet all on its own! Not too long ago, REA auctioned off an uncut refractor sheet of Jordan. The sheet was just like all of Topps Finest – 11 x 10 for a total of 110 Jordan’s. I think that's pretty cool. REA Auction of a 1994 Finest 110-count Jordan refractor sheet. ![]() Now on to the speculation! Who doesn't like speculation these days, amirite?! How these cards made it onto the open market, I am not sure, but they did somehow. The best anyone knows is a bunch of them hit the open market sometime in 2016. There is only one article about this card that I can find and that is on a blog/website - jordancards.com. There is a bit of information in the blog post but most of the information centers around a message the website host received from an eBay seller who listed the card for sale. The seller was stacik1313 (who I’ve met multiple times at shows in the WI/IL area and is a great guy) and had listed a PSA Authentic #23 Jordan. He states: I received the card from another seller who has numerous prototypes of various Jordan refractors as well*. He claims these were produced to promote 1994-95 Finest product but the jersey had to be changed to match Jordan's new number**. Only a handful are known to exist, probably up to 10. I've only seen one in the last 20 years***. • * A 1994 Finest #23 refractor has never been seen so it must have been the '95's and 96's. • ** There is no evidence that these are promo cards. In fact, there would have been no time to create this card as a promo anyway. They were rushed into production last minute in order to include them in 1994 Finest Series 2. • ***This may have been true as they were unknown to most collectors at that time. However, as I’ll detail below, there are more than 10 copies. I’ll provide a bit more information and speculation for how these may have come on the market and I’ll start with a HobbyKings post where a member responded to someone’s inquiry regarding the card: The original seller had purchased it as part of a massive collection of stuff and my business partner and I bought out what he had left almost a year ago. This card wasn't included, but we were told that the original source of the material was the printing company (SGW) who created the Chrome and Finest / Refractor technology that Topps used to create the cards. We bought about 75,000 cards, with around 35,000 refractors in the lot and an add'l 1,400 uncut sheets (400+ refractor sheets). You can see the diagonal lines in the card because the card was originally printed on a part of the sheet that had those lines but was supposed to have been disposed of once the cards were cut down. This post is very similar to the story I was told when I purchased the card at the 2017 National. Basically, some guy (maybe Deadshot’s contact from SGW) saved a bunch of the leftover sheets along with the #23 Jordan prototypes and sold them to a dealer in a bulk deal. If I were a betting man, these were not cut from a sheet; they were factory cut. I don’t know this for sure but a lot of the original “authentic” slabbed cards are so off-center it would be hard to believe a dealer in the hobby in 2016 would have done that terrible of a job - especially with access to all the card trimmers out there. As far as known copies, the best estimate I can make is based on the BGS serial numbers. I used the serial number from one of the first copies on the market and ran forward and backward around the number. There was a run of 1994 Finest base Jordan’s, 21 cards in total, starting with serial number (0009430234) and ending with (0009430254). Now, there’s no way to know for sure that these were all the #23 variation Jordan’s but all of the BGS copies of this card fall into this run of serial numbers. This run of ’94 Finest base Jordan’s were all graded on August 29th, 2016 and were all slabbed, “Authentic.” The reason I believe the population is 21 is because of the graded copies I have seen – my BGS 8.5, a BGS 8 that sold in June of 2020 through PWCC, and a PSA 9 – all of those cards were graded after Aug. of 2016. My copy was graded June 2017, the BGS 8 was graded June 2020, and the PSA copy slipped past their graders sometime in early 2017 based on the (27197000) serial number. I say “slipped by their graders” because PSA will not assign a numerical grade for the #23 variation. I’ve asked for an explanation from PSA but they would not give me one; only that they will slab them authentic if I would like. I’ve tried a simple cross to a PSA case but either team identified it correctly and returned it without grading it. From what I have been told, the buyer of the lot from the SGW employee submitted them all to BGS in 2016 with a 9.0 min grade. None of them were deemed mint so BGS slabbed them all authentic. The reason it is hard to get these past the graders at PSA and why only one has been graded by PSA has to do with the peel. As you can see from the photos, there are very distinct roller marks that produce an indentation diagonally across the card. It is not so indented that it comes through the back but it is significant nonetheless. My best guess - and this is all speculation - is that these were supposed to be shredded after the initial prototype printing and QC but someone rolled them through the shredder without the blades running. Crazy, I know but I really can’t think of another logical explanation. Plus, in the old HobbyKings post, the poster mentioned that they were supposed to be disposed of once they were cut down. If anyone has information about this card that is not already mentioned in my post, please feel free to share it in the thread.
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#2 |
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Read a bit on this card over the years but it’s interesting how the diagonal peel lines are never really addressed. Obviously it’s tough to know for certain, but I can’t even remember them being questioned. It’s funny to picture someone stuffing these in a shredder and forgetting to turn it on.
Anyone have a Topps connect that was still around in the 90s? I’m also hoping for a return of SGW-guy on the wax museum podcast.
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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So these were part of the massive hoard of uncut Topps/Finest sheets that Evan Mathis got his hands on and cut up?
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#4 |
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Join Date: May 2019
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Are roller marks on the peel too?
Thanks for writing |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Jul 2020
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Great story and history, it's really cool to have a summarized history of this card. Kudos.
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#6 |
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Not to do with the Finest card, but this sparked a memory of mine relating to Jordan and his first cards when he came back.....
I was in elementary school at the time and at the end of the school year (late May/first week of June) all the classes would walk down to the nearby street fair that had been going on for decades. I always looked forward to this as there were vendors that sold sportscards. I remember there being a vendor that had 1994/95 Flair Series 2, in which Jordan was a late addition to. From what I recall, every Jordan base was on the backside of the clear wrapper pack that was inside the cardboard pack. So not sure when Finest Series 2 released that year, but Flair Series 2 with Jordan in it was definitely around before the first week of June 1995.
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#7 |
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I won't rule it out. I'm not sure what I'd ask him about though. He was more of a printing guy than a card guy, so I tried to focus more on that.
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#8 | |
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a) They're almost all cut favoring the left edge. That type of consistency wouldn't happen if someone was able to get their hands on a sheet and cut it themselves. b) There's a lifting of the peel along the edges on every one of the cards which is yellowing, signaling these were cut much earlier than 2016 when they hit the market.
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#9 |
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Ya, I didn’t mean to imply he has some untapped Topps insight, the technical stuff is interesting in itself.
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#10 |
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That is pretty crazy if it happened. Didn't know factory cut prototypes were a thing. Any other examples of such?
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#11 | |
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Almost positive standard peels don’t yellow.
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#12 |
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Yes, they are on the peel, and if someone were to peel the coating, I'm assuming you'd see faint roller marks on the surface. Weird thing is, you can't see them at all on the back. I've held that card and had the glare of the light wash across it and nothing. Its glossy finish is unblemished.
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"And more and more and more and more And more of less than ever before It's just too much more for your mind to absorb" - Yasiin Bey (Mos Def) Instagram: 2010gbpackers |
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#13 |
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Excellent thread, loved hearing the backstory and speculation on the card. Great player, even better set! Thanks for posting.
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#14 | |
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#15 |
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Great point. Yeah, you're right, I can't find a standard-issue 1994 Finest where the coating is peeling and is yellow. Strange.
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"And more and more and more and more And more of less than ever before It's just too much more for your mind to absorb" - Yasiin Bey (Mos Def) Instagram: 2010gbpackers |
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#16 |
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Thanks for starting a thread on this. I agree it would be cool to get more threads talking about these kinds of cards/topics.
The MJ is one of my favorite cards, too, and I've heard similar stories on what's been shared here. If you weren't a Packer fan, I think we could be friends... ![]() Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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#17 |
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How about some more far out assumptions and speculation???
I'm guessing that eBay seller Leximo is the one who supposedly purchased these cards from the "original seller". Leximo was very transparent about what they were selling, and I know that once upon a time, they had an absolute motherlode of oversized and uncut Topps products, which were apparently back-doored by someone at Topps. Whether Leximo had bought the haul directly from somebody at Topps, or from an unknown middleman, is curious, as well as the story behind how and why so much back-doored product made its way into the secondary marketplace. As cool as a lot of that stuff is/was, and as trustworthy as Leximo always seemed, this cannot ever have been a good look for Topps. I'm wondering if a designer at Topps had the nerve to put out the #23 Jordan as a promo sample which should only have been passed around at a product design review meeting, or something like that, long before Jordan had announced his return, and therefore, also before Topps could have legitimately considered including him in the set. Maybe this was like a first take for that year's Finest base card design, with some wishful thinking from the designer that Jordan would indeed return to the NBA? This could also have been before a decision had been finalized on which type of peel to use (which could explain the unusual peeling and discoloring on the #23s), as well as the need to mention it proprietarily on the rear of the card. Surely, the official instructions for handling such sample cards would have been to destroy them (after chuckling and/or sighing during the meeting, about the what-if aspect of such a return), but top secret leaks and defiance/insubordination are as old as humanity. Maybe one or two sheets of this promo card were produced, and then inserted into a shredding machine to satisfy a security camera's appetite for destruction, but not before a setting on the shredder was subtly changed to not apply the shredding teeth? I know... a conspiracy theorist's dream come true, but something interesting definitely happened with these cards, and sometimes speculation can be both fun and harmless. |
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#18 | |
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#19 | |
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Excellent point that I had intended but forgotten to mention. |
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#20 |
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All series 1 cards have 1994 copyright. The Jordan and series 2 all have 1995.
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#21 | |
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First off, I love your conspiracy in regards to people keeping them after the meeting. I actually think a version of that "story" makes the most sense. Due to the fact that there are only 21 known copies, these didn't come from a back-door sheet making it out. There are just too few of them, especially when you consider standard printing sheets are 110 cards (11x10). I believe these were given out at a meeting amongst Topps staff overseeing the 1994 Finest set. While the atypical-ness of the peel vs. other cards from that set would make one think it was an initial proof/prototype, however, because it is printed with the #331 designation, the #23 variation is not a prototype from prior to the '94 Finest series 1 release. Plus, like mc1 points out, there is a 1995 copyright date on the back.
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"And more and more and more and more And more of less than ever before It's just too much more for your mind to absorb" - Yasiin Bey (Mos Def) Instagram: 2010gbpackers |
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#22 |
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A little side story... but I clearly remember when these were first released and EVERYONE was out trying to get the Michael Jordan Refractor. They were selling for $1000 bucks! I remember reading tough stuff magazine and it was the hottest card in the hobby with a BV of $1000. I also remember walking into my LCS and this guy had pulled one and the shop owner immediately offered him $800 dollars for it but didn't accept. This was back in the 90's and that was a HUGE amount for any type of card.
I also remember the 1995 Finest Mystery Orange Bordered Test Refractor trading hands for $2k. Word on the street was that there were only ~50 that got out into the public. Till this date, if you look at the pop report it is extremely low. One of the best looking and rarest refractors of MJ ever. So undervalued. 90's Refractors are something else. Nostalgia at its best. |
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#23 | |
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#24 |
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I've got one of these
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#25 |
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^^^ Very nice, Nat. I'd love to see PSA distinguish these somehow, even if you won't assign them a grade. Anything along the lines of "Proof" or "#23 variation proof" would be appropriate. After all, PSA has graded (and continues to grade) many prototypes, proofs, and test cards. It's clear that all three TPG consider this issue to be a real, authentic card and it would actually make sense to distinguish it from its current standing, which is that it's an authentic pack-pulled card - which it is not.
After doing a bit more research, it's almost certain these are proofs and not prototypes. Prototypes are usually a very rough version of the actual card. They typically have no back, are limited to a copy or two, and tend not to look like the finished product at all. With all of this card's attributes (w/ peel, full back, set number printed) this had to be the proof they gave the internal review team before beginning full-scale production. As a matter of fact, I bet they were all ready to go and were hit with the news that Jordan would be wearing #45 and had to rush through another proof card before going to the commercial printer.
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"And more and more and more and more And more of less than ever before It's just too much more for your mind to absorb" - Yasiin Bey (Mos Def) Instagram: 2010gbpackers |
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