Beware Ebay Buyer jo_8365

gwsc · 07-26-2021, 10:29 PM

The ebay issues as a seller have been crazy the last couple months, but this one really has been frustrating and I thought worthy of a warning to the community and perhaps also as a cathartic vent. I sold an Ohtani Luminaries PSA 10 to ebay member jo_8365. I shipped it overnight and corresponded with him briefly. It all seemed fine and then two days later he opened a return case claiming he found one cheaper at a local shop (not likely, but that is neither here nor there).
That is frustrating enough, but he hasn't bothered to ship the item back and is now running it at auction on ebay. I contacted ebay for business via Facebook. They are pretty responsive typically, but claim that this technically doesn't violate their policies and if he doesn't return it in 10 business days (though another rep said 15 business days) then the case will automatically close.
Either way, this seems pretty nuts to me. Hopefully, I end up with either my money or at least the card, but thought I would let people know about this buyer and his methods.
Hope everyone stays safe out there in the dangerous waters that are ebay and if you are headed to the National -- see you there!

Lester Hayes · 07-26-2021, 11:51 PM

yeah i see that listing... it's the wild, wild west out there buddy, and in instances like this it seems like eBay just sits back and allows it to happen. Hope you are able to get made whole again on this.

i'm curious though, and pardon the dumb question but was there some sort of charge-back or refund on this?

RufussCkingston · 07-27-2021, 12:40 AM

Well you allow returns, so he asked to return it. He didn't have to tell you why, but he was honest and told you why he was returning it. Nothing wrong with that. I return stuff to Best Buy if I happen to find a better deal after the fact.

As for his slowness in returning it, eBay gives the buyer a ship by/return by date. So there is nothing wrong if the buyer maximizes that window. Now the fact that the buyer is trying to sell what he wants to return, that's a new one, but I think that is great. If he sells it, you won't end up with a return, which is what you want right? If it doesn't sell, and the return window hasn't closed, the buyer will ship you back the card for the refund minus shipping.

You allowed this to happen by accepting returns for any reason. By doing that you have to be prepared for situations that maximize the return window. My hat's off to the buyer. Playing by the rules to the fullest!

gwsc · 07-27-2021, 12:52 AM

To be clear: he did not find a better deal. He did not purchase another version of this card; it was merely his canned response for opening the claim.
As for your analogy, please tell me Rufuss: Do you buy items at Best Buy then try to sell them in front of the store for more and if you can’t, return them? I imagine you don’t sell much online and thus have little skin in the game.
I have a free returns policy because quite simply the savings on the back end from eBay fees and the placement in their search makes it worth it. Many years ago I didn’t have free returns and it was irrelevant. Buyers would make up a claim for the return and had a couple even purposely damage high end cards so they could return them. The whole “you allowed this to happen by accepting returns” is a moot point. If you sell on eBay, people can return your stuff regardless of your returns policies.
Again, this post was mostly to let people know that if you sell to this buyer, this is likely how it will play out. If you think that is great, then by all means sell to him. I think it is borderline fraudulent and simply not something I would ever do as a buyer.

Astros19 · 07-27-2021, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufussCkingston

Well you allow returns, so he asked to return it. He didn't have to tell you why, but he was honest and told you why he was returning it. Nothing wrong with that. I return stuff to Best Buy if I happen to find a better deal after the fact.

As for his slowness in returning it, eBay gives the buyer a ship by/return by date. So there is nothing wrong if the buyer maximizes that window. Now the fact that the buyer is trying to sell what he wants to return, that's a new one, but I think that is great. If he sells it, you won't end up with a return, which is what you want right? If it doesn't sell, and the return window hasn't closed, the buyer will ship you back the card for the refund minus shipping.

You allowed this to happen by accepting returns for any reason. By doing that you have to be prepared for situations that maximize the return window. My hat's off to the buyer. Playing by the rules to the fullest!

What an absolutely despicable bizarre take.
I hope I never have to deal with you on Ebay.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

RufussCkingston · 07-27-2021, 01:52 AM

Hah, well the Best Buy analogy was just on the returns part, not the part about him reselling the item. Also, how do you know that he didn't buy a 2nd one for less and is trying to see if he can maybe make a little rather than just return it.

Yes I know that at the end of the day, even without accepting returns, a buyer can still foist a return on you, but it takes more effort.\

I just don't see the "borderline fraudulent" aspect. I think it is more enterprising, but unfortunately at your expense. If you didn't allow returns, and the buyer opened a claim of some type, then tried to sell the item at the same time, eBay might think differently. But just because the buyer opened a request to return the item, the buyer is not under any obligation to follow through with the return. However, if you didn't accept returns, then after the buyer opens a SNAD claim or the like, the buyer's actions would be more scrutinized.

I do sell a lot, but nowhere on the scale of 40,000k feedback. Very impressive. I'm only going to be in the 1-2k per year range.

And while I can't speak for the placement in search, you still get the fee savings even without offering free returns (as a top seller)

Lester Hayes · 07-27-2021, 03:13 AM

sure, let's blame the injured party here, he had it coming, right? i think we can all agree that the Buyer trying to sell the item while claiming he wants a refund is shady af and pretty damn brazen. And I question the ethics or sobriety of anyone who applauds him for it.

i don't flip so i can't really get inside the head of the scumbags that seem to have proliferated this hobby in droves. Not saying all flippers are scumbags but the Buyer in this particular transaction certainly is.

shrevecity · 07-27-2021, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufussCkingston

Hah, well the Best Buy analogy was just on the returns part, not the part about him reselling the item. Also, how do you know that he didn't buy a 2nd one for less and is trying to see if he can maybe make a little rather than just return it.

Yes I know that at the end of the day, even without accepting returns, a buyer can still foist a return on you, but it takes more effort.\

I just don't see the "borderline fraudulent" aspect. I think it is more enterprising, but unfortunately at your expense. If you didn't allow returns, and the buyer opened a claim of some type, then tried to sell the item at the same time, eBay might think differently. But just because the buyer opened a request to return the item, the buyer is not under any obligation to follow through with the return. However, if you didn't accept returns, then after the buyer opens a SNAD claim or the like, the buyer's actions would be more scrutinized.

I do sell a lot, but nowhere on the scale of 40,000k feedback. Very impressive. I'm only going to be in the 1-2k per year range.

And while I can't speak for the placement in search, you still get the fee savings even without offering free returns (as a top seller)

I have less returns by offering free shipping and the search placement goes on.

The biggest issue I have here is that Ebay does not even stick to their own return guidelines. Like had one just close this morning that the buyer had until the 20th to return the item but never did. Contact Ebay and they tell you that date is not set in stone and they will get an additional 5 to 15 business days to ship. In that time he could auction it get it sold and possibly have to take a return for it himself and still return it to the seller before the deadline.

So you think its ok for the buyer to tie up the sellers money while he tries to sell something? The whole time the case is opened the seller does not have access to this. True its not against the rules but it is pushing them to the edge and is being disruptive to the original sellers cashflow.

chezball · 07-27-2021, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufussCkingston

Well you allow returns, so he asked to return it. He didn't have to tell you why, but he was honest and told you why he was returning it. Nothing wrong with that. I return stuff to Best Buy if I happen to find a better deal after the fact.

As for his slowness in returning it, eBay gives the buyer a ship by/return by date. So there is nothing wrong if the buyer maximizes that window. Now the fact that the buyer is trying to sell what he wants to return, that's a new one, but I think that is great. If he sells it, you won't end up with a return, which is what you want right? If it doesn't sell, and the return window hasn't closed, the buyer will ship you back the card for the refund minus shipping.

You allowed this to happen by accepting returns for any reason. By doing that you have to be prepared for situations that maximize the return window. My hat's off to the buyer. Playing by the rules to the fullest!

ebay name, please?

RufussCkingston · 07-27-2021, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shrevecity

So you think its ok for the buyer to tie up the sellers money while he tries to sell something? The whole time the case is opened the seller does not have access to this. True its not against the rules but it is pushing them to the edge and is being disruptive to the original sellers cashflow.

I don't think it is right, but it's within the rules of the sandbox we agree to play in. Yes, it's morally wrong, but again, because of the established rules and policy, the Buyer's actions can't be considered wrong-wrong. As a seller with perfect feedback, I respect all my buyers and hope they respect me as a seller who is always on the up and up.

I have a condo where the tenant has claimed Covid poverty for the last year, so because of state laws, she doesn't have to pay yet (though money is still owed). Despite showing me a bank account with $200k+ balance and having other rental properties when she applied to rent. However, last october the tenant purchased a $800k condo 2 doors down the hall for CASH and has been living there while holding my unit hostage (and running up her tab). So I'm owed over $40k, but the rules say I can't do anything, even though it is obviously fraudulent. So yeah, I have some perspective here. But in the OP's case were talking about weeks, not months, and obviously tens of thousands less!

RufussCkingston · 07-27-2021, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezball

ebay name, please?

Greg Moriss Cards

shrevecity · 07-27-2021, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufussCkingston

I don't think it is right, but it's within the rules of the sandbox we agree to play in. Yes, it's morally wrong, but again, because of the established rules and policy, the Buyer's actions can't be considered wrong-wrong. As a seller with perfect feedback, I respect all my buyers and hope they respect me as a seller who is always on the up and up.

I have a condo where the tenant has claimed Covid poverty for the last year, so because of state laws, she doesn't have to pay yet (though money is still owed). Despite showing me a bank account with $200k+ balance and having other rental properties when she applied to rent. However, last october the tenant purchased a $800k condo 2 doors down the hall for CASH and has been living there while holding my unit hostage (and running up her tab). So I'm owed over $40k, but the rules say I can't do anything, even though it is obviously fraudulent. So yeah, I have some perspective here. But in the OP's case were talking about weeks, not months, and obviously tens of thousands less!

I bet you do anything to protect that feedback too. Scammers love sellers like you. You are likely the type seller who does other sellers like that since you seem to think its ok. What does respect have to do with anything. Especially since it sounds like you have no clue about what that is.

Lester Hayes · 07-27-2021, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezball

ebay name, please?

jo_8365

GOTcollector · 07-27-2021, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufussCkingston

Well you allow returns, so he asked to return it. He didn't have to tell you why, but he was honest and told you why he was returning it. Nothing wrong with that. I return stuff to Best Buy if I happen to find a better deal after the fact.

As for his slowness in returning it, eBay gives the buyer a ship by/return by date. So there is nothing wrong if the buyer maximizes that window. Now the fact that the buyer is trying to sell what he wants to return, that's a new one, but I think that is great. If he sells it, you won't end up with a return, which is what you want right? If it doesn't sell, and the return window hasn't closed, the buyer will ship you back the card for the refund minus shipping.

You allowed this to happen by accepting returns for any reason. By doing that you have to be prepared for situations that maximize the return window. My hat's off to the buyer. Playing by the rules to the fullest!

Cesspool

chezball · 07-27-2021, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lester Hayes

jo_8365

not that one.

Swipe79 · 07-28-2021, 01:44 AM

If wishes were fishes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufussCkingston

Greg Moriss Cards

07-26-2021, 10:29 PM	#1
gwsc Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: SoCal Posts: 282 greatwrighter greatwrighter	Beware Ebay Buyer jo_8365 The ebay issues as a seller have been crazy the last couple months, but this one really has been frustrating and I thought worthy of a warning to the community and perhaps also as a cathartic vent. I sold an Ohtani Luminaries PSA 10 to ebay member jo_8365. I shipped it overnight and corresponded with him briefly. It all seemed fine and then two days later he opened a return case claiming he found one cheaper at a local shop (not likely, but that is neither here nor there). That is frustrating enough, but he hasn't bothered to ship the item back and is now running it at auction on ebay. I contacted ebay for business via Facebook. They are pretty responsive typically, but claim that this technically doesn't violate their policies and if he doesn't return it in 10 business days (though another rep said 15 business days) then the case will automatically close. Either way, this seems pretty nuts to me. Hopefully, I end up with either my money or at least the card, but thought I would let people know about this buyer and his methods. Hope everyone stays safe out there in the dangerous waters that are ebay and if you are headed to the National -- see you there! __________________ Instagram: greatwrighter

07-27-2021, 12:52 AM	#4
gwsc Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: SoCal Posts: 282 greatwrighter greatwrighter	To be clear: he did not find a better deal. He did not purchase another version of this card; it was merely his canned response for opening the claim. As for your analogy, please tell me Rufuss: Do you buy items at Best Buy then try to sell them in front of the store for more and if you can’t, return them? I imagine you don’t sell much online and thus have little skin in the game. I have a free returns policy because quite simply the savings on the back end from eBay fees and the placement in their search makes it worth it. Many years ago I didn’t have free returns and it was irrelevant. Buyers would make up a claim for the return and had a couple even purposely damage high end cards so they could return them. The whole “you allowed this to happen by accepting returns” is a moot point. If you sell on eBay, people can return your stuff regardless of your returns policies. Again, this post was mostly to let people know that if you sell to this buyer, this is likely how it will play out. If you think that is great, then by all means sell to him. I think it is borderline fraudulent and simply not something I would ever do as a buyer. __________________ Instagram: greatwrighter

07-26-2021, 11:51 PM	#2
Lester Hayes Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 113	yeah i see that listing... it's the wild, wild west out there buddy, and in instances like this it seems like eBay just sits back and allows it to happen. Hope you are able to get made whole again on this. i'm curious though, and pardon the dumb question but was there some sort of charge-back or refund on this?

07-27-2021, 12:40 AM	#3
RufussCkingston Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Uranus Posts: 1,296	Well you allow returns, so he asked to return it. He didn't have to tell you why, but he was honest and told you why he was returning it. Nothing wrong with that. I return stuff to Best Buy if I happen to find a better deal after the fact. As for his slowness in returning it, eBay gives the buyer a ship by/return by date. So there is nothing wrong if the buyer maximizes that window. Now the fact that the buyer is trying to sell what he wants to return, that's a new one, but I think that is great. If he sells it, you won't end up with a return, which is what you want right? If it doesn't sell, and the return window hasn't closed, the buyer will ship you back the card for the refund minus shipping. You allowed this to happen by accepting returns for any reason. By doing that you have to be prepared for situations that maximize the return window. My hat's off to the buyer. Playing by the rules to the fullest!

07-27-2021, 01:52 AM	#6
RufussCkingston Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Uranus Posts: 1,296	Hah, well the Best Buy analogy was just on the returns part, not the part about him reselling the item. Also, how do you know that he didn't buy a 2nd one for less and is trying to see if he can maybe make a little rather than just return it. Yes I know that at the end of the day, even without accepting returns, a buyer can still foist a return on you, but it takes more effort.\ I just don't see the "borderline fraudulent" aspect. I think it is more enterprising, but unfortunately at your expense. If you didn't allow returns, and the buyer opened a claim of some type, then tried to sell the item at the same time, eBay might think differently. But just because the buyer opened a request to return the item, the buyer is not under any obligation to follow through with the return. However, if you didn't accept returns, then after the buyer opens a SNAD claim or the like, the buyer's actions would be more scrutinized. I do sell a lot, but nowhere on the scale of 40,000k feedback. Very impressive. I'm only going to be in the 1-2k per year range. And while I can't speak for the placement in search, you still get the fee savings even without offering free returns (as a top seller)

07-27-2021, 03:13 AM	#7
Lester Hayes Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 113	sure, let's blame the injured party here, he had it coming, right? i think we can all agree that the Buyer trying to sell the item while claiming he wants a refund is shady af and pretty damn brazen. And I question the ethics or sobriety of anyone who applauds him for it. i don't flip so i can't really get inside the head of the scumbags that seem to have proliferated this hobby in droves. Not saying all flippers are scumbags but the Buyer in this particular transaction certainly is.