MJ has 5 MVPs, LeBron 4, Kobe 1 - is one of these not like the other two?

[GOATcards]

It seems to me that to be high up in the GOAT discussion, you should have at least 2-3 MVP awards. Even if you finish high in career Award Shares and being most instrumental to Rings won (2 Finals MVPs in Kobe's case), how does Kobe not rank higher in fandom, hobby following, etc., than, say, Tim Duncan? I don't see Duncan being brought up along with MJ and Bron in the GOAT discussions. Anyway, look at combined MVPs won, peak MVP shares, rings most instrumental in winning (finals MVPs), those kinds of things, . . . Kobe is top 10 in basketball accomplishment and yet top 3 in hobby status? Is it non-basketball-accomplishment-related 'intangibles'? Did the '96 Chrome Refractor have anything to do with Kobe's hobby status over and above his top-10-level accomplishments? Why not Larry Bird over Kobe? Look at his mid-'80s dominance ffs, did Kobe reach that level?

[GOATcards]

I'unno, someone make the case for why Kobe might be a higher collecting priority than a Tim or Larry. (Speaking of which, the flower I am smoking at the moment is not Gelato #33 or 'Gelato Larry,' but it is good stuff anyway. Apple Fritter actually. )

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

I'unno, someone make the case for why Kobe might be a higher collecting priority than a Tim or Larry. (Speaking of which, the flower I am smoking at the moment is not Gelato #33 or 'Gelato Larry,' but it is good stuff anyway. Apple Fritter actually. )

Kobe was an iconic player. In some cases hobby status and fan appeal >>> achievement. Think Jeter, Griffey Jr., and now Curry. Fan favorite types that play above the rim or have limitless range and a certain flair to their game are simply more collectable than a guy like Duncan.

[kcroyalsfan8515]

Talent.... Franchise... Attitude... Determination.. Swag. Kobe Bean Bryant went at you and did not give a %&$^!!! It made his fans extremely loyal to him and garnered the respect of his peers. He did what all fans want their superstars to do. Work as hard as he possibly could. Dude left it all on the floor. Rip to a legend. Should have won at least one more MVP.

[Derekbauer]

This discussion has been had many a times.

Hobby GOAT discussion is not the same as actual GOAT discussion.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

I'unno, someone make the case for why Kobe might be a higher collecting priority than a Tim or Larry. (Speaking of which, the flower I am smoking at the moment is not Gelato #33 or 'Gelato Larry,' but it is good stuff anyway. Apple Fritter actually. )

The hobby is a popularity contest.

Want a nice Jason Williams card you better open up the bag. I guess he made the All-Rookie squad that one time.....

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Kobe was an iconic player. In some cases hobby status and fan appeal >>> achievement. Think Jeter, Griffey Jr., and now Curry. Fan favorite types that play above the rim or have limitless range and a certain flair to their game are simply more collectable than a guy like Duncan.

And Larry Legend?

[sebreg]

Kobe benefited from nba expansion to Asian markets and Laker mystique. He was also an exciting, ridiculously technically proficient scoring guard in the mold of MJ who won a lot. Add in his mamba mentality and branding aspects which appeal to large portion of audience. Mvp awards are nice but kinda overrated imo, at the mercy of the media (which can be fickle and prone to narrative capture). Kobe being part of hobby's collecting holy trinity makes complete sense to me.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

And Larry Legend?

I don't see pre 90s players as highly collectable just due to the limited number of cards available. Bird retired before they started making cool cards. Just my opinion.

[GOATcards]

In the GOAT discussions (although someone has distinguished basketball GOAT from hobby GOAT), the tippy top of the cream of the crop have something like 3 MVPS or more and 3 Finals MVPs or more. If we narrowed it to that, we get MJ, Bron, Magic . . . I think that's it? If we loosened it up a bit and made it 2 MVPs and 2 Finals MVPs, that includes Larry Bird, Tim Duncan, Kareem . . . (Wilt got one Finals MVP but would have gotten another in '67 if they had Finals MVPs then; Russell bascially couldn't have been awarded any Finals MVPs, Shaq and Kobe have at least 2 Finals MVPs each but "only" 1 regular-season MVP each (losing to the likes of Allen Iverson, Duncan, Nash, and LeBron).

I'm just saying, the competition gets pretty tight, up there in the top 5-10. Kobe's a top-10 legend, just trying to get a grasp on his top-3 hobby status.

[jerrygarcia]

1. MJ
2. Lebron
3. Kobe (Distant third in this discussion)

Kobe's fans are very defensive but don't see how they can argue the above.

[sebreg]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I don't see pre 90s players as highly collectable just due to the limited number of cards available. Bird retired before they started making cool cards. Just my opinion.

100%. I'd be chasing Bird and Magic like mad if they had cool 90s inserts and parallels. Personally don't really care for 80s cards, for most part.

[aaronking23]

Kobe's top 3 hobby love not top 3 all time

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I don't see pre 90s players as highly collectable just due to the limited number of cards available. Bird retired before they started making cool cards. Just my opinion.

I'unno, '69T Lew Alcindor seems like a pretty cool card.

The '80T Larry/Magic is a questionable 3-panel deal, yes, yes. And the Magic pic could at least be closer-up. Whatevs. Coolness has most to do with the player on the card, most of the time.

I've got quite a bit of mid-'80s Star Co. Bird material on my wishlist. Turns out I have multiple copies of his 81T which is kinda iconic actually.

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by kcroyalsfan8515

Talent.... Franchise... Attitude... Determination.. Swag. Kobe Bean Bryant went at you and did not give a %&$^!!! It made his fans extremely loyal to him and garnered the respect of his peers. He did what all fans want their superstars to do. Work as hard as he possibly could. Dude left it all on the floor. ...

Except the playoff game where he refused to shoot in the second half and the Lakers lost.

Kobe will always be overrated as a basketball player, but like Iverson, an iconic alltime NBA superstar.

[lepcity]

Originally Posted by jerrygarcia

1. MJ
2. Lebron
3. Kobe (Distant third in this discussion)

Kobe's fans are very defensive but don't see how they can argue the above.

Probably because LeBron has destroyed the nba? Pick up some Chinese tv channels because the Nba in America will be no more. Also mvp winners aren't voted on that great they get some wrong and they get some right.

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by aaronking23

Kobe's top 3 hobby love not top 3 all time

Will Gen Z have the same hobby love as millennials for Kobe in the future assuming they are into sports cards?

[bloodwings19]

Originally Posted by sebreg

Mvp awards are nice but kinda overrated

This

I never liked MVP voting because the player is due. Kobe having 1 MVP is ridiculous and Curry over Harden in 1 year when Harden was the true MVP. If you told me the last 5 MVP, I wouldn't know actually I do because of Mosaic BKB cards.

[MaoAsadaStan]

Kobe was really a rich man's Allen Iverson. An inefficient volume shooter with leadership qualities.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

I'unno, '69T Lew Alcindor seems like a pretty cool card.

The '80T Larry/Magic is a questionable 3-panel deal, yes, yes. And the Magic pic could at least be closer-up. Whatevs. Coolness has most to do with the player on the card, most of the time.

I've got quite a bit of mid-'80s Star Co. Bird material on my wishlist. Turns out I have multiple copies of his 81T which is kinda iconic actually.

You're talking about one, two, maybe a handful of cards for some of these guys. Kobe's career spans the 90s insert craze, Topps Chrome, Exquisite, Prizm, and everything in between. I think Kobe is the most collectable player ever just due to the span of his career and him having licensed autos for both UD and Panini, plus all of the other variables that make Kobe what he is.

[codered]

Kobe should have 3 (possible 4) MVP’s. (He was definitely the best player in the world the year dirk won and the year nash won his second)

MJ was robbed of 2 (no way Barkley was mvp 92-93 and Malone didn’t deserve his 1st one over MJ)

You could make a very solid argument Lebron deserves at least 1 or 2 more as well.

It is what it is

[byronscott4ever]

Is Derrick Rose as good as Kobe? Is Steve Nash twice as good as Kobe?

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by codered

Kobe should have 3 (possible 4) MVP’s. (He was definitely the best player in the world the year dirk won and the year nash won his second)

MJ was robbed of 2 (no way Barkley was mvp 92-93 and Malone didn’t deserve his 1st one over MJ)

You could make a very solid argument Lebron deserves at least 1 or 2 more as well.

It is what it is

This is the problem with an award given by voting. So much bias behind where they throw their support.

[imbluestreak23]

Definitely, but not the direction you want to take the thread. Two are most certainly different.

LeBron and Kobe played almost 2 decades.

MJ played 13 seasons. Subtract broken ankle year and return from baseball year, we only got to see 11 full seasons.

5 MVPs in 11 seasons is pretty impressive, especially when MJ pulled a Tebow in between those MVPs.

Compare that ratio to:
-1 MVP in 20 seasons
-4 MVPs in 18 seasons (although Bron's nuts and ankles are starting to fall apart)

[Archangel1775]

Lakers, Championships, Mamba Mentality.