Pre-Panini Game Used Cards

[MyckKabongo]

The Football OGs have talked about how special these are for years. I'm convinced and I'm diving in. I would love to get some insight from those of you that are well-versed in this stuff. Specific questions below but feel free to contribute anything.

* Provenance - I've seen Playoff and UD with "This jersey was worn by this player in an official NFL game." So refreshing! Does the community have full trust in the Provenance of GU for these manufacturers? Fleer and Topps from the period are not as strongly worded. Thoughts on those?

* Am I right that top sets for GU would be Playoff NT, Exquisite and Ultimate Collection? What other sets are notable?

* Pitfalls to avoid: known fakes, questionable provenance, how to spot fakes?

Thanks for your help!

[RustyDawg37]

Unless you can match it to a game photo or the item is mentioned to be from a specific game, the guarantee is still pretty flimsy at best. That burden of proof to yourself lies with you. IMO all cards have questionable provenance.

I would still pay 10x more for a GU piece than a player worn material.

As with anything else, collect what you like. I bought a Doak Walker GU jersey years ago. One of my favorite cards. I do not collect Doak Walker, or Detroit Lions, but the card is cool and I love NFL history.

[ssbledsoe]

First and foremost, you HAVE to read the authenticity statement VERY precisely. "Player worn" is almost certainly garbage (insert Mark Ingram @ the Rookie Premiere).

For fakes, ANY damage around the patch window is an absolute red flag. Just say no. "SICK OMGZ PATCHES" are almost always fakes or not from an actual game worn jersey (read player worn/lightly touched with their left pinky only). The more plain the patch, the more likely it is to be authentic, IMO. Patch fakers don't take out "sick" patches and replace them with plain patches.

Re: top sets, again this goes back to the actual language of the authenticity statement. Some Exquisite and NT stuff is just "player worn" garbage. Frankly, most anything in the last decade is player worn certified horse manure.

For me, I just prefer to save up and get actual game worn items from either the team or NFL Auctions type of provenance. Even that isn't fool proof (see Eli Manning GU equipment scandal).

GL on your quest. You really might wanna focus on the late 90's/early 00's stuff if game worn is what you really want. Also, this "This jersey was worn by this player in an official NFL game" authenticity statement counts for a "game worn" jersey by a player standing on the sidelines during a preseason game...

[monkeymcgee]

Playoff Absolute, Leaf Certified Materials, and Playoff Piece of the Game from the early 2000s all had detailed sourced GU cards and sometimes had photos of the items used.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by MyckKabongo

* Provenance - I've seen Playoff and UD with "This jersey was worn by this player in an official NFL game." So refreshing! Does the community have full trust in the Provenance of GU for these manufacturers? Fleer and Topps from the period are not as strongly worded. Thoughts on those?

* Am I right that top sets for GU would be Playoff NT, Exquisite and Ultimate Collection? What other sets are notable?

* Pitfalls to avoid: known fakes, questionable provenance, how to spot fakes?

I like this thread, and hope others OG's come forward. Not a whole lot of info on this online anymore. As a lot was shared 20+ years ago, on now defunct forums and chat boards.

My personal background, I got back into cards as a young adult in 2000. The absolute place to be was the old Beckett forums. Until they farted around with the format, and most members left. Looks like all archives from there were scrubbed clean after the switchover.

Only speaking of football cards, but Id have to think the same would stay true for the other sports.

For your first point, when Upper Deck dropped the Godfathers of jersey cards in 1996, it was a game changer. Everyone and their uncle wanted one. As far as I know, each player featured had a single jersey used. And any "lumpy" parts IE patches, were mostly kept to the side, is it wouldn't fit within the thin card stock.



These cards were such a hit, that UD expanded the checklist, and the swatch window, the following year.



And other companies took note, with even generic Shop at Home brands like Collectors Edge getting in on the market. This is when the hobby seemed to start asking if things were really game used. As the COA on these cards were very open ended



By 1998, with the hobby crazed for these memorabilia cards, their popularity as pulls, and selling points to sell wax, outpaced signed cards as inserts.

It didn't take long for people making cards to realize it was a lot cheaper to make memorabilia cards as "hits" VS the tedious, and expensive, process of making, mailing, paying for autos, waiting to get them back and finally inserting signed cards.

And with that, they started harvesting "Player Used" items from the Rookie Premiere. An event that only existed as a means to take photos for the newest classes rookie cards. Turned into a free for all to get some things signed, and more importantly, cheap material "used" VS paying big money to the auction houses to buy actual game used jerseys of star players.

By 1999, the flood gates opened. Everyone that made cards, now was in the memorabilia card business. You weren't just limited to jerseys either. Footballs, socks, cleats and helmets were all being chopped up. And for the most part, it was all coming from that latest batch of rookies at the premiere.

This is when talk of "fake" swatches really became a thing. These companies weren't openly cheating you, but they also weren't making it clear what your swatch was.

Companies like Collectors Edge were making cards with hunks of football in them, and just calling them "Game Ball" cards. Zero mention of being used in a game, let alone by the player featured on the card.

Playoff was the king of noncommittal. They dubbed a lot of their jersey cards as "Team Threads". Just a fancy way of saying their store bought jerseys, as the same kind that they team might use.



OG collectors were calling all memorabilia cards "Game Used Cards" for a few years, because the first couple of years all cards were actually jerseys that were game used. But with so many sets being produced by each company come 1999, and with the licensing fees being so much to make cards. Corners had to be cut.

More and more cheap rookie autos and plenty of non game used material cards being hits in nearly each and every box.

By 2000, the wheels were off the cart. Jersey cards went from being worth a minimum of $25 each, regardless of the player. To the advent of the $5.00 box out at every dealers table.

Just too much made, no longer a special hit and most importantly, people were realizing that a lot of these cards featured worthless swatches not related to the actual player.

Hardest hit, was DLP. That was the company Panini would eventually buy out, and monopolize football cards with. Donruss, Leaf, Playoff and Score were all one in the same. And really took heat for their bogus "Team Threads" cards.

With that, they over emphasized when any cards featured any actual game used material. Just like Tommyboy, they certified what you were holding.



I think 2000 was truly the banner year for cards. You had DLP, Fleer, Collectors Edge, Pacific and Upper Deck cranking out legit NFL cards. And value options with draft cards, coming from Sage and Press Pass.

To get value back into these hits. They were now being "Plused". Jersey cards were now Signed, serial numbered and featured patches or multiple swatches of material. That is what set the standard going forward.

By the time Brands like National Treasures or the better UD lines came out, you were starting to see more and more "Player Worn" cards popping up.

Not just for Rookies any more. But for Vets and retired players. After catering to fans that didn't value anything but Game Used. Slowly the hobby came to accept player worn as OK.

By 2009, you had Vet "used" cards, like these from Absolute memorabilia.

There was a big ongoing thread, with how Mario Williams didn't play on the Pro Bowl (that is why his Pro Bowl jersey card shows him in a normal game jersey, unlike others in the set)

To be fair, the card said it was worn in an event, not an actual game.



But, the hobby didn't care too much by then. And they just wanted limited edition patch cards. They didn't care what was actually in the cards

To make a long post longer, there were plenty of Knights in the hobby 20 years ago as well. Some semifamous (CardCop) and others that were just plugged in by other means.

Even when these companies would buy legit game used jerseys, some with inside knowledge swear they witnessed the cutting room floors, where game used jersey and store model jerseys were chopped up, and placed in the same bag to be used as "Game Worn"

Other examples of fraud, at least how it was discussed back then. Was Panini getting a Mears A5 Walter Payton jersey around 2010, and calling those swatches Game Used

Mears is misleading, as even certified fancier store model jerseys come with a letter head that says Game Used, and you have to look into the grade to see if it actually was.

Huge swing from a Mears A10 to an A5. That's why I don't collect anything but early 2000's Walter Payton jersey cards.

To make an even long post even longer. The farther back you go for Vet "Game Used" the more likely it actually was a real game used jersey. And it didnt matter the brand, as the same jersey was used to make cards in lower end and higher end. It was all pulled from the same bag.

To move onto known fakes, both by the companies themselves not standing behind their COA on impossible Game Used swatches. To fakes being made by dick collectors switching out swatches for better ones, cut from worthless store items. I would need another hour to cover all that! And my lunch is now over. Back to work!

[MyckKabongo]

Really appreciate all the posts! Especially Grid, I was hoping to lure you in here after seeing some of your posts in previous threads I searched on GU. Hope we can get a sequel.

I've looked at a lot of memorabilia cards in recent day and noticed a few trends:

* The most noticable shift in the strength of guarantee language seems around 2009 when Panini entered and U.D. lost its license.

* Fleer and Topps have some gorgeous mem card designs but the weakness of the guarantee language is a huge letdown. I saw an amazing looking Joe Montana relic (Archives Reserve) that doesn't even seem to have guarantee language, just a hologram sticker, which according to other threads is a useless hot mess.

* Consistently hearing early 2000s were strongest for GU provenance. I need to look into it more but unfortunately some of the graphic design trends for those years were not my cup of tea. I'll have to find a balance.

* I like the clean looks and high end brand cachet of mid-00 to late '00s Exquisite, Ultimate Collection and to a lesser extent UD Premier and pre-panini NT. These have strong guarantee language but I haven't heard loud and clear endorsements of these. Combined with the overall murkiness around authenticity and how it worsened in later years has me a bit concerned.

[Seahawks fan]

In Topps and Panini releases they will flat out tell you a card is game used and then use the vague wording on other cards in the same exact set. Basically meaning anything with vague wording is garbage.

I have always found it odd how little Game Used cards sell in comparison to new all player worn products... even when it comes to vets. You can tell that there is not a huge buying market for Game Used cards because instead of Panini using them as a selling point they put their best verbiage cards "This Game Worn Patch was used on Such And Such Date" in their cheap fathers day pack Game Dated sets and the cards themselves even with dirt on the patches still sell for dirt cheap.

People say they care about game used but the prices don't reflect that and companies have sold out products at record pace without any game used at all. they have no need to change their trajectory unfortunately.

[PrimeTimeScott]

I wonder if the other sports kept up the "Game Used" longer, since they had many more opportunities to obtain jerseys as the other sports simply play more games. Even if the card companies purchased actual game jerseys, they could only get 16 per year of any given football player, where in other sports, they play so many more games. I just wonder if they tried to keep "Game Used" going longer in other sports or if they saw that no one ultimately cared in football, so why bother getting game used jerseys in any sport?

[ronaldkosh]

It was crazy to observe in real-time how quickly game used cards went from the coolest thing ever (1997 and 1998 releases) to commonplace and boring (1999 and 2000 releases). I remember it well.

[deathwished13]

I'd rather the game worn jerseys be kept in one piece. If they really wanted to excite folks put a redemption in for a full gamer.
Providing they already have it in their possession

I know folks like their patch autos though I'm just not one of them Is rather have a clean hard signed auto than a rpa but I'm likely in the minority

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk

[powerinme86]

Originally Posted by MyckKabongo

The Football OGs have talked about how special these are for years. I'm convinced and I'm diving in. I would love to get some insight from those of you that are well-versed in this stuff. Specific questions below but feel free to contribute anything.

* Provenance - I've seen Playoff and UD with "This jersey was worn by this player in an official NFL game." So refreshing! Does the community have full trust in the Provenance of GU for these manufacturers? Fleer and Topps from the period are not as strongly worded. Thoughts on those?

* Am I right that top sets for GU would be Playoff NT, Exquisite and Ultimate Collection? What other sets are notable?

* Pitfalls to avoid: known fakes, questionable provenance, how to spot fakes?

Thanks for your help!

This is why you are seeing increasing value in game worn vs. player worn. Just look at the latest 1/1 patches from 2020 products they are pretty much worthless to me if they aren't game used

[BostonNut]

Pacific was great about having a photo and a blurb about what exact game the jersey was worn in.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by deathwished13

I'd rather the game worn jerseys be kept in one piece. If they really wanted to excite folks put a redemption in for a full gamer.
Providing they already have it in their possession

I know folks like their patch autos though I'm just not one of them Is rather have a clean hard signed auto than a rpa but I'm likely in the minority

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk

I have no issues with it. Either one rich guy can have a game used jersey locked up in his PC. Or hundreds of fans, who could never afford the entire thing, can have a piece of it in their collections.

I do draw the line of super rare vintage pieces. Once those are chopped, they are gone the way of the dodo. But a Tom Brady game used jersey? Including post season, he has worn about 400 of them in total.

Go ahead and chop some up for the little people.

[MyckKabongo]

Yeah, the Pacific cards mention the specific season it was worn.

Any thoughts on the various Playoff Game-Used cards with cut pieces of game balls? I love that these are game-dated but I know nothing about GU balls. Safe to assume the ball was actually touched by the QB or do we think they got kicker balls or something?

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by MyckKabongo

Any thoughts on the various Playoff Game-Used cards with cut pieces of game balls? I love that these are game-dated but I know nothing about GU balls. Safe to assume the ball was actually touched by the QB or do we think they got kicker balls or something?

I'm a big fan of them, they are game dated on the back with the verbiage "The enclosed piece of football was cut from an Authentic Game Ball used in an NFL Game, date used. The Authentic Game-Used Ball was obtained and is guaranteed by Playoff Card Company.*" where the * = Standard Limited Warranty.... whatever that means.

The wording to me indicates the ball was used in a game, doesn't mean the player pictured touched it (especially lineman). Here's my completed set from 2000 Playoff Absolute Leather and Laces:



Couple of the Leather and Laces Combos

[ronaldkosh]

^ That is incredible! Thanks for posting

[pazerbaijan]

One of the key sets for '00s game-used cards was 2005 Donruss Gridiron Gear. It was full of visually impressive game-worn patches, denoted with which part of the jersey was used, and included a lot of players who rarely appeared in other sets. I don't think another set has managed to surpass it in the 15 years since.







For more modern sets, 2010 and 2011 Plates & Patches were (and still are) relatively overlooked, but they had close to the same variety as 2005 Gridiron Gear, if not quite the same quality.

[marinocollector]

STAY AWAY FROM PACIFIC.
Pacific lost their license because of unfair game used practices. The cards would game used swatches, yes, but they notoriously used lesser players jerseys in cards featuring star players. This is how they had one per pack game used cards in $10 packs while other companies had one per box. The Tom Brady Gu From 2001 is probably real though.

Upper Deck 1996-2003 for the most part is golden. From 2004 on they started grabbing GU from sketchy sources. For example, Steiner had complete control of Jeter GU. They charged $5-10k for a Jeter jersey. UD paid $1500 from “reliable” sources.

Topps has always been vague about their COA. The pro bowl stuff is 100% real. But be careful with topps triple threads as patches were very easy to fake. In fact, the majority of topps multicolo patches are questionable. Topps often took apart all the layers of GU to get more mileage from their GU items.

Fleer (2004 and before), Fleer always struggled. I think them trying to keep up with the spending of autographs and game used product is what really was the final nail. I think they used legit items, but may have grabbed questionable stuff at times when a good deal popped up. Fleer 2005 and beyond was owned by Upper Deck. The would not feel as comfortable with them.

PLAYOFF!!!!!!! Ok. Although one of the most reliable sources for game used from 1999-2008, they REALLY messed up early on. 1997-1998 jersey cards from Playoff feature store bought jerseys with no ties whatsoever to the players. The first GU product inserted into playoff was football swatches in 1998 Contenders. 1999 Playoff not only started using 100% game used, but they also started buying the left over patch pieces from other companies in 2000. I’m sure they have picked up questionable items from the boom of 2005-2009, but they put the nail in the pacific coffin, creating 02 piece of the game to show the nfl the margins of a $15 pack with legit GU item is incredibly low and Pacific was leaving the league in a vulnerable position.

That leaves us with edge. Edge is probably all fake. the helmet card they create in 1997 were apparently a lot of store models.

[Dallas Cowboys]

Originally Posted by Grid

I have no issues with it. Either one rich guy can have a game used jersey locked up in his PC. Or hundreds of fans, who could never afford the entire thing, can have a piece of it in their collections.

I do draw the line of super rare vintage pieces. Once those are chopped, they are gone the way of the dodo. But a Tom Brady game used jersey? Including post season, he has worn about 400 of them in total.

Go ahead and chop some up for the little people.

One of the items that got me back into collecting in 2011 was reading "Mint Condition" by Dave Jamieson. I was shocked when he talks about I think Donruss cutting up a Babe Ruth Jersey. I agree with you. I am fine with modern jerseys being cut up but when you are cutting up Ty Cobb bats or Jim Thorpe jerseys that's where I draw the line. To me these are precious antiquities that should have never been cut up.

As far as my collecting I won't touch any player worn. I do like to pick up older jumbo game worn multi color patches of HOFers if the price is right. Knowing full well that it might have never been game worn or might have been worn by a scrub and not Emmitt, Montana, Payton, etc. I do think they make great display pieces.

The nice thing about autographs are if the athlete is using agents, family members, or autopen to sign it usually comes out. See Dak from a few years ago. And you can have JSA, PSA, and Beckett all look at the same card if you want to. You can't do that with a jersey card.

[Dallas Cowboys]

[QUOTE=Dallas Cowboys;17183002]

Originally Posted by Grid

I have no issues with it. Either one rich guy can have a game used jersey locked up in his PC. Or hundreds of fans, who could never afford the entire thing, can have a piece of it in their collections.

I do draw the line of super rare vintage pieces. Once those are chopped, they are gone the way of the dodo. But a Tom Brady game used jersey? Including post season, he has worn about 400 of them in total.

Go ahead and chop some up for the little people.[/QUOTE

One of the items that got me back into collecting in 2011 was reading "Mint Condition" by Dave Jamieson. I was shocked when he talks about I think Donruss cutting up a Babe Ruth Jersey. I agree with you. I am fine with modern jerseys being cut up but when you are cutting up Ty Cobb bats or Jim Thorpe jerseys that's where I draw the line. To me these are precious antiquities that should have never been cut up.

As far as my collecting I won't touch any player worn. I do like to pick up older jumbo game worn multi color patches of HOFers if the price is right. Knowing full well that it might have never been game worn or might have been worn by a scrub and not Emmitt, Montana, Payton, etc. I do think they make great display pieces.

The nice thing about autographs are if the athlete is using agents, family members, or autopen to sign it usually comes out. See Dak from a few years ago. And you can have JSA, PSA, and Beckett all look at the same card if you want to. You can't do that with a jersey card.

[snowje]

“Playoff was the king of noncommittal. They dubbed a lot of their jersey cards as "Team Threads". Just a fancy way of saying their store bought jerseys, as the same kind that they team might use.”



Do you happen to know of an article or something on this story. I’ve heard tons of collectors say the 1998 team thread cards weren’t actually game used or even player worn but just “retail jerseys from the team store” not even the ones players wore.

But they all basically reference message boards like this as their source of the knowledge trying to find something a bit more concrete.

[Zauron]

Honestly, at this point, any jersey card piece/etc is completely player worn or not even that, just a cut up jersey. I have zero faith in these patches coming out especially of retired players or vets that they are legit. Of course any rookie jersey is completely non-game used.

[hugh]

How do you feel about Collector's Edge 1995 or 1996(cant remember) that has a piece of game ball with the game date on the back?

[Grid]

Originally Posted by snowje

“Playoff was the king of noncommittal. They dubbed a lot of their jersey cards as "Team Threads". Just a fancy way of saying their store bought jerseys, as the same kind that they team might use.”



Do you happen to know of an article or something on this story. I’ve heard tons of collectors say the 1998 team thread cards weren’t actually game used or even player worn but just “retail jerseys from the team store” not even the ones players wore.

But they all basically reference message boards like this as their source of the knowledge trying to find something a bit more concrete.

Who would have written an article about jersey swatches in trading cards, back in 1998?

Again, as I wrote, all of this stuff was discussed on message boards and different forums and blogs that have long since been purged. Either you were there 20-25 years ago, or you just have to trust those that were.

When it comes to the Team Threads cards, there is nothing on the cards themselves for anyone to think they were actually used in a game, or even by a certain player.

There was no COA on the card, stating the swatch was "used" or even player worn. They just said "Authentic Team Jersey"

Like this one, that shows nearly a dozen players with a single swatch.



People started questioning them for many reasons. The vague wording for one. But also when multicolored ones would pop up, and just have rubber number/nameplate material, when the team had actually used tackle twill for years. IE, impossible to be from anything but a retail jersey.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by marinocollector

Topps has always been vague about their COA. The pro bowl stuff is 100% real. But be careful with topps triple threads as patches were very easy to fake. In fact, the majority of topps multicolo patches are questionable. Topps often took apart all the layers of GU to get more mileage from their GU items.

I know you posted this a year ago, but I didn't see it until the recent bump. I loved those early Topps Pro Bowl cards. And I was a little sad when I saw the entire jersey TO wore in the 2001 Pro Bowl, pop up for sale after it was found in his storage locker.

Here is the card. Says it was Game Used. Came out in late 2001, and features a swatch from the 2001 Pro Bowl played earlier that year. Some cards had logo patches, so you know the swatch was from the jersey pictured.





And here is the actual jersey, as it still sits today. Even photo matched to the game.