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BASKETBALL Post your Basketball Cards Hobby Talk |
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#1 |
BODA
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,272
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Good evening,
Recently, I posted some information in another thread about a 1999-00 SPx Spectrum 1/1 Kobe Bryant, graded a PSA 8 with certification #27123535, which was pulled from sale by Goldin Auctions after questions were raised about its authenticity: ![]() To make a long story short, a tipster contacted BO members Rogermaris, 3124508, and me regarding this Kobe card, which he believed to be a backdoored (i.e., an extra, unmarked copy of the card illicitly taken from Upper Deck) card bearing a fake stamp. This tipster also shared a cache of images of other 1999-00 SPx Spectrum cards which also bore the same stamping as the Kobe. After doing research along with consulting with Rogermaris, it has been determined that these 1/1 stamps are indeed fake. In addition to the images provided by the original tipster, I uncovered additional cards all with the same fake stamping. In fact, all three major grading companies failed in detecting these fakes: 1 from PSA (the aforementioned Kobe), 10 from BGS, and an astounding 17 from SGC. It appears that the BGS cards were submitted in a single batch, while the SGC cards were submitted in four separate batches. This leads me to believe that the person who submitted these cards to BGS and SGC was either the person who produced the fakes or the person who acquired these fakes directly from the scam artist. The majority of these were first sold through Rick Probstein, who arguably provides the biggest safe space for scammers in the hobby. Thanks to Brendan and Horace for your assistance and expertise, and of course the anonymous tipster. Here are the cards: SGC Cert #8323174-011 Chris Mullin ![]() SGC Cert #8323174-012 Antoine Walker ![]() SGC Cert #8323174-013 Latrell Sprewell ![]() SGC Cert #8323174-014 Jason Williams ![]() SGC Cert #8323174-015 Antonio McDyess ![]() SGC Cert #8335598-001 Jermaine O'Neal ![]() SGC Cert #8335598-002 Shareef Abdur-Rahim ![]() SGC Cert #8335598-003 Damon Stoudamire ![]() SGC Cert #8335598-004 Rik Smits ![]() SGC Cert #8335598-005 Chauncey Billups ![]() SGC Cert #8341248-003 Alonzo Mourning ![]() SGC Cert #8341248-004 Ray Allen ![]() SGC Cert #1382135-012 Allan Houston ![]() SGC Cert #1382135-013 Glen Rice ![]() SGC Cert #1382135-014 Dikembe Mutombo ![]() SGC Cert #1382135-015 Jerry Stackhouse ![]() SGC Cert #1382135-016 Marcus Camby ![]() BGS Cert #0008411947 Shaquille O'Neal ![]() BGS Cert #0008411949 Tim Duncan ![]() BGS Cert #0008411950 Dirk Nowitzki ![]() BGS Cert #0008411957 Kevin Garnett ![]() BGS Cert #0008411958 Grant Hill ![]() BGS Cert #0008411966 Tim Hardaway ![]() BGS Cert #0008411971 Stephon Marbury ![]() BGS Cert #0008411974 Avery Johnson ![]() BGS Cert #0008411976 Bryant Reeves ![]() There is one more which I am holding back posting until tomorrow (more research is needed). Thank you for reading.
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Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line Last edited by superdan49; 09-21-2021 at 11:10 PM. |
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#2 |
BODA
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 9,379
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Thanks for putting this together.
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3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: US. In a home.
Posts: 686
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Thank you Dan (and others)
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 166
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Thanks for posting. The stackhouse was for sale on Facebook group back in 2018.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Michigan
Posts: 46
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Sometimes, I feel thankful that these cards (well, the REAL copies, anyways), are out of my price range when they come up for auction because I certainly let my guard down when I see they have been graded by PSA or BGS and don't look as closely as I should be before bidding.
Thank you for the write-up and bringing attention to this.
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ISO: Rare Ben Wallace cards from his playing days and other nice patches from NBA players in the 2000-2010 era. Find me on IG: MittenStateCollector |
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,754
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Oof...Were there legitimate 1/1 versions of these cards. I've always had a fear about having a legitimate 1/1 card that somehow ends up being counterfeited.
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#7 |
BODA
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,272
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Yes, I will post a pack-pulled one tomorrow alongside a backdoored, fake-stamped example of the same card.
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Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line |
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#8 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Napa Valley
Posts: 4,437
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These fakes look very convincing. I look forward to seeing your examples.
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I collect Joe Johnson - 2,773 different cards, 517 1/1's. www.ilocust.com/hobby.htm |
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#9 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 394
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#10 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,694
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There are several threads that discuss this set that might help further this research
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=806102 https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=848782 Also, this appears to be the current owner of the Antoine. I feel legitimately bad for them. http://ozceltics.com/antoinewalker/9900.htm
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He said he name was “E”, so I introduced myself as “G”...The license plate said “IMNBITZ” or “IMNBISZ” or something. - G YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPuD3WYJ0rkpLqDdyavC2WA |
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#11 |
Member
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prior to buying the damon i did a bunch of hunting for good examples, but likely saw these graded ones as point of proof.
i do remember the variance in the diagonal dot separation n the font formations on the 1 but they were also common on the other ones i was looking atm. tbh i cant even remember when i bought it, must be like 5yrs maybe?
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Collecting Damon Stoudamire - IG @damonstoudamirecollector https://www.flickr.com/photos/damonite/albums trade stuff for DS here -> https://www.flickr.com/photos/damonitesecondary/albums/72157709510200157 |
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#12 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,337
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Yikes. Great work, everyone who helped track these down.
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Ashley Lelie Rookie Collector, always looking for more. |
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#13 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 394
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Glad someone finally pointed this out. It seems like nowadays no owner would like to admit they end up with these backdoor fakes or care about authenticity of the cards.
The time when these popped up, as I remember, was a full set of unstamped backdoor spectrum, sold on ebay at very low prices. And of course they later surfaced again to be stamped, and many were graded by BGS as 9.5s, many others later graded by SGC. There might have been related discussion either on here or HobbyKings. It's actually fairly easy to identify these through the space between each "1" and "/". On the originals the space was narrower. |
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#14 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,156
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Wow pretty crazy. Looks like the real examples use the dot style stamping for the "1"s. Amazing work.
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#15 |
Member
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I own a legit Garnett spectrum 1/1 and remember being quite disgusted seeing the fake one (as BGS 9.5 no less).
As stated above, they first showed up in bunch as unnumbered and later as graded, numbered copies. Seeing 2-3
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Tradelist: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152434132@N02/collections/72157686186743125/ IG: blackcrow_cards |
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#16 |
Member
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...and by looking at a legit and fake side by side you should be knowing which is which
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Tradelist: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152434132@N02/collections/72157686186743125/ IG: blackcrow_cards |
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#17 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 1,165
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I also own a legit copy of the Glenn Robinson
![]() ![]() Quite relieved that I did not end up with a backdoor fake ![]()
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Super-collecting Glenn Robinson (1994-01) | Andrei Kirilenko (2001-10) | Paul George (2010-19) | Darius Garland (2019- ![]() Based in London, UK. Use a US mailing address. |
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#18 |
Member
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DRK and TM are one thing, but SHAQU LLE?
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Collecting: Kobe Bryant - LeBron James - Michael Jordan Giannis Rare Base / Parallels / Inserts[COLOR="black"] |
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#19 |
BODA
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,272
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2 Examples of the 1999-00 SPx Spectrum Scottie Pippen 1/1 Card Uncovered: 1 Authentic, 1 Fake-Stamped
This post should end any reasonable doubts that the 27 previous Spectrum 1/1 cards I posted are indeed fraudulently created. Shown here is an authentic example of Scottie Pippen's 1999-00 SPx Spectrum 1/1 card, graded by Beckett on August 5, 2012, as well as a fake-stamped specimen of purporting to be the same card graded by Beckett on November 12, 2014. That's right, Beckett graded two separate examples of a supposed 1/1 card, awarding a BGS 8.5 grade to each. From the standpoint of protecting the hobby from fraud—which is the raison d'ętre of third-party grading/authentication firms— this is grossly negligent. ![]() BGS Cert #0008411954 Scottie Pippen *Fake 1/1 Stamp* ![]() BGS Cert #0007304639 Scottie Pippen *Authentic 1/1 Stamp* ![]() Any guesses where the fake-stamped Pippen was first sold? ![]()
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Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line Last edited by superdan49; 03-19-2021 at 06:53 PM. |
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#20 |
BODA
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,272
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I haven't updated this thread in a few months so I figured I would revisit. Here's an authentic example of a Spectrum 1/1 that was properly slabbed by BGS.
BGS Cert #0008770070 Shawn Marion *Authentic 1/1 Stamp* ![]()
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Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line |
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#21 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 41,149
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Good stuff. Any other UD cards with backdoored copies?
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#22 |
BODA
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,272
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Likely some football 1/1s. Will be exploring in near future.
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Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line |
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#23 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,337
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There are also two Spectrum 1/1 Pippen's in the PSA population report.
More than one fake? Crossover and/or grade bump(s) on the real or fake stamping? Here's what PSA shows for the Spectrum set. 4 Paul Pierce Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 10 9 Toni Kukoc Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 10 15 Dirk Nowitzki Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 10 28 Scottie Pippen Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 8 and PSA 9 30 Reggie Miller Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 10 33 Chris Mullin Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 9 36 Shaquille O'Neal Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 10 37 Kobe Bryant Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 8 (Fake Stamp) 47 Kevin Garnett Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 10 61 Larry Hughes PSA 9 (1/1 not mentioned, only spectrum) 70 Chris Webber Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA9 73 Tim Duncan Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 10 80 Vince Carter Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 10 81 Tracy McGrady Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 10 83 Karl Malone Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 9 84 John Stockton Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 10 92 Steve Francis PSA 9 (1/1 not mentioned, only spectrum) 97 Richard Hamilton Spectrum, 1 of 1 PSA 9
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Ashley Lelie Rookie Collector, always looking for more. |
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#24 | |
BODA
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,272
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A member here recently sent me photos of a raw Spectrum 1/1 Tony Kukoc he acquired. It is undoubtedly authentic:
![]() However, a Kukoc appears in the PSA Pop Report as a PSA 10. If anyone has a photo or scan of that PSA 10, please post it here or send it to me. Quote:
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Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line |
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#25 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,425
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![]() Quote:
Paging Jeff Edler, paging Jeff Edler.........
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"You said the link to the Prizm hanhers was no longer available and out of stock. You lied, dreams of hoarding Prizm died." -mc1 8.6.20 |
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