Heritage Auction shill bidding

[wrestlingbulls1]

What do you think the likelihood Heritage is shill bidding their own auctions? Reason being a bgs 9.5 Jordan rc with 3 9.5s and 1 9 sold for over 37k (which includes the premium) These can barely sell for over 30k on eBay with similar subs

[xTri]

Possibly, but I'm not really surprised a card sells for more at an auction house over eBay.

[3124508 on COMC]

I think all the trimmed cards they sold is a bigger issue.

[wrestlingbulls1]

Originally Posted by xTri

Possibly, but I'm not really surprised a card sells for more at an auction house over eBay.

Good point! There probably are more collectors out there than we realize that don’t do eBay

[The Finest]

0.01%

[jcardstore]

I’m guessing the people with real money buy cards there and not always eBay. Could be wrong tho cause heritage auctions are way out of my league

[mjohnatgt]

Rule 21: The Auctioneer, its affiliates, or their employees consign items to be sold in the Auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots

https://www.ha.com/c/ref/terms-and-c....zx?view=terms

So, a very good chance. And they tell you in advance that they're going to do it.

[wrestlingbulls1]

Dang, I didn’t realize this.

[rcmb3220]

About 100%

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by wrestlingbulls1

Dang, I didn’t realize this.

We've discussed it probably 10 different times in the past few years on this board and/or Net54. That's one reason I always recommend that people "read more threads."

The state that they are registered in allows for the house to place bids. So they put it in their rules, and then do it.

[wrestlingbulls1]

Thanks! So it sounds like last nights sale of that Jordan is not legit more than likely

[mjohnatgt]

That I have no idea of. Just that Heritage has the ability to legally place bids on behalf of their company and/or consignors. So there may have been house bids that pushed the final selling price up. They also may not have.

[wrestlingbulls1]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

That I have no idea of. Just that Heritage has the ability to legally place bids on behalf of their company and/or consignors. So there may have been house bids that pushed the final selling price up. They also may not have.

I just thought it was weird that these with similar subs barely sell for 30k and this particular one went for 37200. My other thought is the psa 10s are now going for close to 160k so maybe I was a legit sale 🤷🏻#@♂️

[hairyangryfella]

Yep, good luck getting steals - whatever the item's expected value is, Heritage are likely to make it reach that. And then if they win it by doing so, they'll sell it again later. I am unlikely to ever buy from them again having found this out this year.

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

Yep, good luck getting steals - whatever the item's expected value is, Heritage are likely to make it reach that. And then if they win it by doing so, they'll sell it again later. I am unlikely to ever buy from them again having found this out this year.

So if you sell through them do you get paid if they accidentally win it?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

So if you sell through them do you get paid if they accidentally win it?

Heritage doesn’t “accidentally” win anything. And I don’t think anyone knows how much they actually bid on. They may make some strategic bids here and there. But they are selling millions of dollars worth of cards in these auctions now. Poor business model to buy up what you’re selling when you’re taking 20% of the sale price already.

[rats60]

If the question is Heritage or an employee shilling? No, the company makes too much money running auctions besides sports to pull a Mastro. They are the 3rd largest auction house and have been in business since 1967. It is possible a consignor or someone on his behalf bid on the card. I can tell you that if the card doesn't get paid for, the bidder will get banned by Heritage, unlike eBay, and his name will be given to other auction houses.

It is more likely that people who don't fool with eBay wanted the card and one paid a premium. Heritage's auctions get top dollar because the high bidder can always be out bid. eBay's hard ending times suppress prices because you have people sniping auctions and the under bidder can't up his bid. You also have people who want to deal with a reliable company and not get jerked around by an eBay seller who doesn't have to sell the card if he doesn't like the final price.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

So if you sell through them do you get paid if they accidentally win it?

All I can tell you is that I have been paid for everything that was consigned. Unlike other companies on eBay who auction your cards multiple times before they pay you.

[RogerGodahell]

I don't know if a major auction house like Heritage would mess around with shill bidding. It's actually a serious offense but eBay doesn't do anything about it and it it runs rampant on their platform. It's a form of wire fraud and the penalty for it if you're caught is up to 20 years in prison and thousands of dollars in fines. Last year Heritage had $825 million in sales. I don't know if they would want to stake their reputation and livelihood shilling their own auctions.

[mjohnatgt]

Did you even read their rules? It's legal in their state, and they say they can do it.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by rats60

If the question is Heritage or an employee shilling? No, the company makes too much money running auctions besides sports to pull a Mastro. They are the 3rd largest auction house and have been in business since 1967. It is possible a consignor or someone on his behalf bid on the card. I can tell you that if the card doesn't get paid for, the bidder will get banned by Heritage, unlike eBay, and his name will be given to other auction houses.

It is more likely that people who don't fool with eBay wanted the card and one paid a premium. Heritage's auctions get top dollar because the high bidder can always be out bid. eBay's hard ending times suppress prices because you have people sniping auctions and the under bidder can't up his bid. You also have people who want to deal with a reliable company and not get jerked around by an eBay seller who doesn't have to sell the card if he doesn't like the final price.

Well, they’re fine with fraudulently selling proven trimmed cards.

[mjohnatgt]

I like this post:

UFFDAH Posts: 917 ✭✭✭✭✭December 11, 2020 5:22PM
@craig44 - if you or anyone have concerns take it up with PSA since they graded practically all the cards. Some have been reviewed by PSA because of people like you only to be determined to be fine. Haters always be haters.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ritage-auction

Dude's been scammed by trimmers, and still accepts PSA's word as Gospel once they "review" a card. Myopia at its finest.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

I like this post:


https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ritage-auction

Dude's been scammed by trimmers, and still accepts PSA's word as Gospel once they "review" a card. Myopia at its finest.

I think he's the one that sent most or all the cards I outed to Heritage for their auction. He's a real POS if that's the case. Just because he was defrauded doesn't mean that he can turn around and defraud others.

[gomiamigo]

Most auction houses have rules allowing them to bid on their own auctions, as long as they are bona fide bids, there shouldn't be an issue [and disclosed of course]. Sotheby's, Christie's, etc all do this.