My 1953 Topps Adventure

albatross7979 · 06-21-2020, 05:48 PM

First post on the boards, I've lurked for a while before deciding to register and post. I do not have a website or a blog or social media, so I figured I would use this thread to document my 1953 Topps adventure. I am in my late 30s and just recently got back into the hobby after disconnecting from cards in the mid 90s. When I moved away to college, someone either threw away or sold all of my cards, and I wasn't too bothered by it, since I didn't really have anything of great value. Like a lot of people my age, most of my collection was late 80s/early 90s junk wax.

Last year a former co-worker was chatting with me and asked if I ever collected cards. He told me he was excited about the Topps Living Collection set, and after googling it, I saw that it was an update on the 1953 Topps set, which was my absolute dream set as a kid. I remember there was a card stand at the local flea market, and the guy had a bunch of 1953 Topps cards, but they were in a special protective case. The allure and mystery of the protective case always made me want the cards more, and I was blown away at the art and how good the cards looked.

I was intrigued when my friend showed me the Living Set info, and I decided to start reading more about the hobby. I had no real idea about grading cards, costs, or anything else. I mostly just read for a while, and then I decided to start exploring more, and one of the places I checked out was COMC. I ended up adding a few hundred dollars to the site just to mess around. I did a little bit of flipping, because that concept was easy for me, and then thought I'd start collecting the 1953 Topps cards. But, I really didn't have a plan.

I basically started buying a bunch of low grade versions of the common cards. After I'd amassed like 50 of the cards, I realized that the copies I was buying were not going to be suitable for an actual collection. Work and life got in the way and I kind of put the cards to the side for a while. However, in the last 3 months, I have decided to reboot my 1953 project. I did a lot of thinking about how I wanted to approach it, what my goals are, and I am now back into the swing of things. I made myself 3 distinct goals for my journey:

* Complete the Base Set (274 cards) with every card being graded a PSA 5 or higher
* Complete the Master Set (274 base cards + both copies of the cards that feature different backs) in a PSA 5 or higher
* Complete the Master Set at PSA 7 or higher

As you can see, the degree of difficulty increases with each of the 3 tasks. I believe there are 80 cards that have variations where the color on the bio info on the back of the card is either in black or white. My goal for objective #2 is to collect both versions of each of these cards. A few of these will be very expensive, including Hoyt Wilhelm, Smoky Burgess, Early Wynn, Joe Black, Billy Martin, Yogi Berra, Phil Rizzuto, Johnny Sain, Dick Williams, Allie Reynolds, Warren Spahn, Dick Groat and Ted Kluszewski.

The final goal is of course to upgrade the complete master set to a PSA 7 or higher, which is more of a lifetime goal than anything else.

After weeding out my low quality cards, I began to focus my search on the PSA 5 or higher cards. I managed to accumulate a decent chunk of cards in the last 2 months. According to my set registry at PSA, I currently have 55 of the 274 base cards collected, with an average grade of 5.12. I have a lot of commons, but I've also picked up a bunch of high number cards as well, including Charlie Silvera (tough to find an affordable, nicely centered version), Bob Boyd, Roy McMillan, Gene Woodling and Duane Pillette. I only have one HoF so far, a nice PSA 5 of Early Wynn.

About a month ago, I decided to slightly alter my approach to adding new cards to the collection. I noticed that sometimes as I'd be searching ebay, the PSA 5s or 6s of the cards I was targeting were in older slabs with scratches, or the cards just did not look great. I decided that a cool addition to this project would be to start looking at buying cards raw, submitting them for grading, and seeing where I ended up. This added a new layer to things, because if I could get the card at a real good price, even factoring in the cost of grading, I could still find value. PSA is actually running a special that ends in a few weeks where cards from the 50s can be submitted at a discounted rate, so I have been stocking up on a bunch of cards to submit for grading.

I've been pretty picky about quality, and after spending a lot of time the last few weeks looking at raw cards from the set, it feels like I am limited to only one or two big sellers on ebay who routinely put out high quality versions of raw cards and are accurate in their grading. What some people will list and call "EX/Near Mint" is shocking. BUT, this just makes it all the more fun and rewarding when you do strike gold.

In my pile to submit for grading this week, I have the following:

Smoky Burgess - A very nice copy, hopefully either a 5 or 6
Johnny Groth - A really clean example, could be pushing a PSA 7
Red Schoendienst - Two copies that I picked up cheaply, likely PSA 4s, but if they are, I will be able to sell them for a profit
Joe Nuxhall - This card has been tough to find in really great condition, for some reason
Hoyt Wilhelm - Looks like a borderline 5, if its a 4 then I will sell it
Rocky Krsnich - A high number, it is likely a 4, in which case I will sell it. Got it cheap
Dick Kokos - Borderline 4/5, but picked up fairly cheaply
Freddy Marsh - A borderline 4/5, will sell if its a 4
Bill Norman - A boderline 4/5
Preacher Roe - A borderline 4/5
Dixie Howell - A borderline 4/5
Bill Antonello - Looks like a 5 to me, we'll see

As you can see, I've focused on the high numbers recently. I picked up all of those cards for under what a PSA 4 sells for, so if they come back 4s, then I will just list them up on ebay and sell them. If they come back 5s, they go into the collection.

Buying raw and submitting for grading was more of an experiment. I'd love to have the cards freshly graded in new clean holders, and it would feel a bit more special to know I found them raw and got them graded. But if the results don't pan out, no big loss and I will continue to search for graded examples of the cards I need.

This was a huge post, and maybe no one out there cares about 1953 Topps or my collection, but I figured I needed some place to track my project, since most of my friends don't really care about cards and think this is a ridiculous thing to do. I personally think the cards are beautiful, and vintage baseball cards are wonderful. So, thanks for reading if you did. I'll try to update the thread semi-regularly with my progress. My set is currently ranked #131 on the in progress leaderboard, so top 100 here we come.

vintg · 06-21-2020, 06:00 PM

first of all, congrats !!

the '53 topps is almost larger than life, beautiful to me.

that being said, I "only" have 2, mantle sgc 1.5, and Jackie robinson
psa 5 , DEAD centered. (sorry, not for sale, lol)

next on "my" list is willie mays.

that being said, I love you added the raw angle, sending in for grade.

last, have you considered "cracking out" beckett 5.5's (or 6's)

and sgc 5 and 5.5s ??

just my 2 cent advice, as I am not a set collector.

good luck !!

albatross7979 · 06-21-2020, 06:09 PM

I'd love to see your Jackie in a 5, I am sure its gorgeous.

I am saving the big 4 (Jackie, Mantle, Mays, Satch) until closer to the end, or until I find a really good price. Those 4 are going to cost a small fortune.

I have considered cracking out SCGs and Becketts. It is probably an avenue I will explore a bit more as I move forward.

One thing that has been interesting/fun is that I've basically memorized the 274 card checklist because of the amount of time I've spent researching and looking up cards. I had no idea who Roy Face was a few months ago, now finding him centered in a clean PSA 5 or 6 has become like a part time job. But that is what makes this so fun

rats60 · 06-21-2020, 06:33 PM

It sounds like what I have been doing with the t205 set. One change I would make to your strategy is to get the top 4 cards early as you are more likely to pay more later than commons which go up in price much slower. I am also doing the 1955 set, but am only doing the stars in PSA cases and leaving the commons raw.

unitasfan · 06-21-2020, 07:41 PM

Wow, that's a big undertaking. That set in 5 and better is gonna be stunning. Look forward to seeing how u do with the raw cards. I have been pretty lucky at getting some of my Hof rc in the raw and grading well.

albatross7979 · 06-21-2020, 09:50 PM

well folks, tonight was a rollercoaster.

I didn't call them out by name, but in my original post I noted that there are only a few really good sellers on ebay who not only grade their stuff accurately, but who also list high quality items. The go to at this point for me is probably not a shock, but it is Greg Morris cards. His stuff is absolutely incredible. For the last month or so, he's been listing 60-70 cards from the 1953 set that expire on Sunday evening. It has become a tradition for me to open up 40 tabs with 40 different listings (because they all end within like 30 seconds of each other, some within 5 seconds of each other!) and see if I can't snipe my way to a few cards. Well, tonight I got more than a few cards.

My basic practice is to make myself a note of my max bid, put in the bid with a few seconds left, and if I win, cool, if not I just move on. I get my prices mostly by using VCP and also checking out past auctions, and also looking at the prices of the PSA 5/6/7s listed on ebay for the player. I spend (probably way too much) time really digging into the values, but it also comes down to the actual cards. I'm a huge stickler on centering, I can forgive a blemished edge or corner, but my eyes need good centering or it takes away from the card. Anyway, tonight's auction run had a TON of cards in NR/MINT shape, and also tons of EX/EXMINT versions too. I did not expect to win any of the NR/MINT listings. But, well, yeah.

So, here is how I did tonight:

Ray Boone (EX/EXMINT) $16.50
Eddie Pellagrini (EX/EXMINT) $11.50
Karl Drews (EX/EXMINT) $15.50
Bob Borkowski (EX/EXMINT) $16.50
Dick Brodowski (EX/EXMINT) $12.27
Billy Martin (VG/VGEX) $67.88
Paul Minner (EX/EXMINT)$12.50
Don Kolloway (EX/EXMINT) $9.05
Ken Heintzelman (NR/MINT) $24.22
Harry Dorish (EX/EXMINT) $8.50
Bob Young (EX/EXMINT) $9.49
Billy Hoeft (EX/EXMINT) $14.89
Bill Hunter (NR/MINT) $16.39
Gene Hermanski (EX/EXMINT) $10.50
Marion Fricano (EX/EXMINT) $10.50
Whitey Ford (VG/VGEX) $75.00
Hal Newhouser (EX/EXMINT) $106.50
Rocky Krsnich (NR/MINT) $76.00
Freddie Marsh (NR/MINT) $92.00
Gene Stephens (NR/MINT) $50.55
Sid Hudson (NR/MINT) $92.00
Henry Foiles (EX/EXMINT) $56.00
Les Peden (EX/EXMINT) $31.99
Vern Stephens (EX/EXMINT) $36.05
John Riddle (NR/MINT) $162.50
Ken Raffensberger (EX/EXMINT) $41.00
Don Lund (EX/EXMINT) $49.00

....over $1100. I was actually speechless at the end. I never imagined being able to scoop so many of those cards at the prices I did. Here are my numbers on those cards. I am always looking at the average prices on VCP, then adjusting for more recent trends I've seen, while also pricing in the little premium I'll place on having a card that I can buy raw and get graded, and factor in the $8ish dollars per card for the grading fee/shipping. I think GMC actually might slightly undergrade their cards, so when I think about my prices, for an EX/EXMINT, I am assuming a 5 about 40% of the time and 6 about 60% of the time. Maybe not, if the guy at PSA grading my cards is in a bad mood, but this is all an inexact science to a degree, so whatever. Anyway, here are my results along with my notes

I won't go through every card, a lot of them were just right in my range, but there were a few I wanted to note.

Billy Martin - I didn't intend on buying this one, it was listed as a VG/VGEX, but I think it looks like a really good 4, and it might be a 5. If its a 4, I will sell it and try again, will only have cost a few dollars to give it a shot.

Ken Heintzelman - This was one of those listed as NR/MINT. If you are assuming GMC is good at grading and is conservative, then I'd think maybe this comes back a 6 15% of the time, a 7 50% of the time, and an 8 35% of the time. Depends on the day. A PSA 7 recently sold for $42. If this comes back a 6, then I will basically break even. It comes back a 7 or an 8, then I'm ahead of the game.

Bill Hunter - Another in the NR/MINT category. A PSA 6 recently sold for $19, a 7 for around $40. I paid $16.39 for this one. Happy with it.

Whitey Ford - Another one I wasn't really expecting to win. I looked at the card for 5-10 minutes earlier today. It looks really clean. Only one corner on the front shows any real wear, and its just a little chipping, its not rounded. Edges look good, centering isn't perfect, but its not too distracting. A PSA 4 sold for $84 last week. A PSA 5 sold for $105 a few days ago. If I get a good PSA grader, I think this has a chance at a 5. If its a 4, I'm fine with that too.

Hal Newhouser - Here is where things started to get wild. I was NOT expecting to win this card. It looks AMAZING

Corners look great, edges look good. Centering top to bottom looks good, left to right isnt 50/50, but its not too bad either. Back of the card looks perfect with the same centering as the front. The last PSA 5 Newhouser that completed was for $100 in early May. A 6 just sold for $122 a few weeks ago, but the one before that sold for $189. I think there is a sliver of a chance this comes back even better than a 6. Probably not. But, I will take that shot.

Rocky Krsnich - As I noted in my opening post, I have a copy of this card that I know will come back as a 4 or 5. This one was listed as NR/MINT and I assumed I had no shot of winning it. A PSA 6 sells for around $45. Above a 6 is rare. The last 7 sold for $90 back in February. But prices on all of the 1953 set have gone up over the last few months. If this card is a 7 and I list it, I'd expect to get at least $115 for it. A PSA 8 hasn't sold in over a year, and the last 2 that sold went for $300+. I paid $76 for this one. The edges and corners appear to be mint. The centering isnt 50/50. Its probably a 7. I'm fine with a 7 for $76.

Freddie Marsh - At this point I didn't even know what to think, but I wasn't going to stop bidding. My values are my values, if I get the cards at good prices, then just buy them. Marsh, like Krsnich, is a high number, is tough to find in great condition, and is expensive. This one was again listed as NR/MINT and I assumed was out of my range. PSA 7s and 8s dont show up frequently. The last 7 to list was in April, it listed for $195 and it sold for best offer. The last one that sold at auction went for $130 last June. The last PSA 8 sold for $338 in November 2019. I paid $92. I'm happy with it. The card looks incredible.

Gene Stephens - Was also listed at NR/MINT. A PSA 7 sells for $60+, the last PSA 8 went for $300+. This one is really sharp and looks like a 7. I paid $50. Fine by me.

Sid Hudson - Another high number, another card that commands a big premium, another card listed at NR/MINT. An offcenter PSA 7 sold for $60 a few days ago, but of course the OC knocks it down about 2 grades in price. The last clean 7 to sell at auction went for $167 in February. The last two PSA 8s went for $500+. The top to bottom centering on mine probably makes it a 7 and not an 8. But for $92, on a card that rarely comes up in this condition....I was thrilled.

Henry Foiles - Another tough card to find in really good condition. This was EX/EXMINT. A 5 will sell for around $60, a 6 for around $75-80. I paid $56, and I was willing to pay maybe a little bit more because it looks really good, especially the centering. The bottom right corner isn't great, but this is a tough card, so I was fine paying a few dollars more than I might have otherwise.

John Riddle - At this point, I was close to delirious. I thought surely I would not win the bidding on this card. It was listed at NR/MINT. Riddle is #274 out of 280 and a super tough card. A PSA 6 of this card sold on BIN for $233 a few weeks ago. Only one PSA 5 was listed for auction in about a year's time. The last PSA 7 to sell at auction went for $250 in February. The last PSA 8 sold at auction for...$750. In January 2020. I paid $162. I did not imagine bidding for this card. But I saw it sitting at $150 and felt like I had to. I'm glad I did. It looks like a 7. It is going right into the collection when it comes back from PSA.

Ken Raffensberger - Another high number that fetches big prices. This one was EX/EXMINT. A PSA 5 sells for $50-60. A 6 will sell for between $70-100. I paid $41. The centering is really good, one of the corners isnt perfect. Probably a 5, which is fine.

Don Lund - And thus ends the insanity. This is another card that is tough to find in great condition with good centering. A 5 sells for around $40, a 6 for between $50-60. I paid in the middle, maybe a few dollars too high, but the card looks great and the centering is very good.

All told, this was sort of insane.

My PSA submission will probably now have around 60-70 cards in it, maybe more.

crazy4kinsler · 06-21-2020, 10:08 PM

This is an awesome task, and I look forward to following along.

May I also suggest you cross post this over on Net54. Those guys over there are so much more knowledgeable on the vintage front whereas this site is mostly newer, shiny, autographed stuff. I didn't say ALL of this site was like that. But the majority is. So I'd suggest trying the Net54 site.

albatross7979 · 06-21-2020, 11:09 PM

Thanks, I might do that, but I will have a hard time keeping up with things in 2 places, lol.

So after tonight's splurge, I've updated my PSA submission list.

I'm also submitting a handful of other cards from different sets, including a few from the 1941 Play Ball set, which is the other one I am currently working on, but that one takes a back seat to 1953 Topps, obviously.

I am really interested to see what kinds of grades I get. The cards on the left were bought from random sellers on ebay, and generally the cards underperformed when I got them in the mail. I may actually pull a few from that list, but I don't really want to re-list them raw and have to point out the flaws the previous seller didn't, so I might just slab them and sell them, then at least there are no questions about the card.

I have a Minnie Minoso that was supposed to be delivered last week that still hasn't come in. If I receive it, it will go in the submission. Otherwise, that looks like my list. If things go well, I should have 40-50 cards to add to the collection in a few months.

In looking at where my collection stands now, I have 31 of the cards from #220-280, which I think are the toughest to acquire outside of the big 4. Eddie Mathews, Warren Spahn, and Yogi Berra will also be expensive to acquire. A few cards in the beginning of the set don't pop up that often on ebay, and when they do, they are super pricey. Some of the cards I didn't win tonight went for really shocking prices.

Willie Miranda, #278, is going to be one of the most expensive of the non-Big 4 to grab, an EX/EXMINT copy went for $159 tonight. I was willing to pay $125. But damn.

A NR/MINT Harvey Haddix went for $218.50. My max bid was $200. I was actually sad about this one, even though I obviously had a tremendous night. This card is super tough and super expensive. The centering wasn't great, which is why I passed.

#260, Sam Calderone, is a really tough card to find in good clean condition with good centering. The last 2 that I had on my watch list were both probably 70/30 centering. One tonight went for $51 in EX/EXMINT. Just outside of what I wanted to pay, especially with the mediocre centering.

#265, Jackie Jensen, is another one that commands big $$ because its tough to find in really good condition. One in EX/EXMINT went for $73 tonight, my limit was around $55...

#250, Bob Wilson, was my biggest miss of the night. The one listed was EX/EXMINT but it was really clean. I had a max of $35 in my notes, but when I switched tabs the timer was at 3 seconds and I couldn't hit submit fast enough. It sold for $20.59. Major sad.

#255, Dixie Howell....he is in my list above. I thought I was buying a nice EX copy, but the card wasn't that when it got to me, so I wanted this EX/EXMINT copy. It went for $109. My max bid was $68. Yeah well.

#243, Carlos Bernier, I almost debated changing course here, because it was a NR/MINT copy and this card is tough to find really well-centered. This copy was almost perfect, and it went for $70. My max bid was $65, and I kind of regret not throwing in for $75 to see what happened.

Some cards that I have priced in the $15-20 range for EX/EXMINT went for stupid high prices. #221 Solly Hemus went for $52, #235 John Hetki went for $42, #227 Morris Martin went for $62. #153 Andy Semenick went for almost $29....and I had my max at $14. Oops.

#109, Alvin Dark, went for $70 for an EX/EXMINT copy. VCP has a PSA 5 avg for this card at $24. Very odd. #95 Willard Marshall went for $34.50 in an EX/EXMINT...VCP lists a PSA 5 average of $13.26. Again, weird.

Anyway. This is actually what makes the hobby so much fun for me. I've just been scrolling through all those cards I was watching, looking at the final prices, trying to figure out what I missed, and staring at some of the big ones I managed to pull tonight.

albatross7979 · 06-21-2020, 11:16 PM

Also, I went through my PSA set registry today and added in all of the cards I currently have graded and uploaded scans for each. I did it quickly so I might need to re-scan some of the cards later, but for now, its there. When this batch comes back from PSA I might re-scan all of them and do fresh uploads. My username on PSA is the same as here if anyone wants to see scans of the cards I already have.

rats60 · 06-22-2020, 07:04 AM

How are you checking to see if they have color added to the border? Do you use a black light? This is the one disadvantage to buying raw. At least with graded there is a good chance they have been examined unless they were submitted by Moser and friends.

VanLingoMungo46 · 06-22-2020, 07:37 AM

Thanks for sharing your experiences, albatross7979. I love the attention to detail and your trials and tribulations on EBay. I have experienced many of the same experiences in my quest to complete the '57 set. A lot of people are building older sets right now. You're seeing lots of comp and so am I as I assemble the last few tough commons of the '57 set. The prices for commons have really jumped on '57s in the last few months, along wit the stars. I agree with the poster who said you might want to go after some of the most expensive cards sooner rather than later. Once you get that Mantle, Mays, etc, your commitment level will go up. Hard to know for certain if this is a short term bubble for vintage, so you might get paid off if you wait, if the economy takes a turn for the worse prices will come down. But there's reason to think 50s vintage is going to be in high demand for the long haul. People love collecting baseball cards, and being stuck at home with fewer entertainment options seems to be driving things up.

Interesting that Harvey Haddix is a tough card in the '53 set. I'm having a really tough time finding his 57 card, which is the first # of series 4 and supposedly a DP. It's not cheap.

Curious to see how your goals evolve as you keep building. Sounds like you are in it for the long haul, which is great. I wonder if your PSA gambit will work. Those cards that don't meet your standards for 5s, will still cost $ to grade and have limited resale value. I totally identify with your challenges of buying raw. More often than not the card does not live up to the standard applied by the seller. Usually this comes in the form of undisclosed surface blemishes. Find a few good, lower profile sellers and when you get quality from them, make them your go-to guys (and gals). That's what I have done, but yeah buying raw on line is tough and as rat60 said, with 53s you also have to worry about corner coloring.

albatross7979 · 06-22-2020, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

How are you checking to see if they have color added to the border? Do you use a black light? This is the one disadvantage to buying raw. At least with graded there is a good chance they have been examined unless they were submitted by Moser and friends.

Yeah this is a big risk in buying raw. I have a desk lamp with magnification to review surface/edges/corners, and I think I actually have a small blacklight packed away somewhere. I think with someone like GMC, I'm less worried about it. He seems really strict on his listing practices, he denotes wrinkles/creases in every title when applicable, and I know they check cards for trimming before listing. With the smaller sellers, I'd definitely question it, which is why I haven't spent big money buying cards from those folks. And while I'm okay gambling on $100 cards or less, when it comes time to buy the big 4, I will buy them graded, just to be safe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanLingoMungo46

Once you get that Mantle, Mays, etc, your commitment level will go up. Hard to know for certain if this is a short term bubble for vintage, so you might get paid off if you wait, if the economy takes a turn for the worse prices will come down. But there's reason to think 50s vintage is going to be in high demand for the long haul. People love collecting baseball cards, and being stuck at home with fewer entertainment options seems to be driving things up.

Yeah, I regularly check the prices on Mantle, Mays, Jackie and Satchel Paige. If I see a 5 that is at the bottom of the price scale for what I expect to pay, I'll probably jump. The cheapest sales of those 4 in a PSA 5 in the last 3 months:

Mantle: $4250
Mays: $2200
Jackie: $460
Paige: $550

But then again, it can't just be any 5, it needs to be a well-centered 5.

Quote:

Interesting that Harvey Haddix is a tough card in the '53 set. I'm having a really tough time finding his 57 card, which is the first # of series 4 and supposedly a DP. It's not cheap.

Yeah, 1953 is his rookie card, plus its a high number, so I can understand the price. One sold back in April in a PSA 5 for $100, but it was really poorly centered. The most recent sale in May was for a better centered version and it went for $250.

Quote:

Curious to see how your goals evolve as you keep building. Sounds like you are in it for the long haul, which is great. I wonder if your PSA gambit will work. Those cards that don't meet your standards for 5s, will still cost $ to grade and have limited resale value. I totally identify with your challenges of buying raw. More often than not the card does not live up to the standard applied by the seller. Usually this comes in the form of undisclosed surface blemishes. Find a few good, lower profile sellers and when you get quality from them, make them your go-to guys (and gals). That's what I have done, but yeah buying raw on line is tough and as rat60 said, with 53s you also have to worry about corner coloring.

Yeah, I think the math on the cost for the cards that don't come back 5s means that I will take a small loss in some cases, but it should be minimal. Using an example from above, given how rare some of the high number cards are, I should still be able to sell them for decent costs. Dick Kokos, according to the ebay completed sales, has only had 2 PSA graded cards sell at auction in the last 3 months, 2 more went for BIN/offer. They were PSA 5s and sold for almost $30. If mine comes back a 4, I will list it at $25 and see if I get any takers. If it sells for $20, then I paid $20 for the card raw, plus $7.50 to get it graded, so I'm in for $27.50. Sell for $20, minus fees, it will have cost me $10-12 bucks. For the cards I bought last night, my math was to try and get them at the price I estimate the lowest plausible PSA will sell for. So if I bought a NR/MINT expecting either a 7 or 8, and it comes back a 6, then I'd expect to lose $10 or so.

The other thing, of course, is it is going to take months to get the PSA submission back, and by that time, the value of these cards may have continued to rise, or of course it could go the other way. My goal on all of these has been to buy versions that will go into my collection, selling will the fallback option if the grading doesn't come back with what I'd hoped for

IgnatiusJReilly · 06-22-2020, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albatross7979

Thanks, I might do that, but I will have a hard time keeping up with things in 2 places, lol.

So after tonight's splurge, I've updated my PSA submission list.

I'm also submitting a handful of other cards from different sets, including a few from the 1941 Play Ball set, which is the other one I am currently working on, but that one takes a back seat to 1953 Topps, obviously.

I am really interested to see what kinds of grades I get. The cards on the left were bought from random sellers on ebay, and generally the cards underperformed when I got them in the mail. I may actually pull a few from that list, but I don't really want to re-list them raw and have to point out the flaws the previous seller didn't, so I might just slab them and sell them, then at least there are no questions about the card.

I have a Minnie Minoso that was supposed to be delivered last week that still hasn't come in. If I receive it, it will go in the submission. Otherwise, that looks like my list. If things go well, I should have 40-50 cards to add to the collection in a few months.

In looking at where my collection stands now, I have 31 of the cards from #220-280, which I think are the toughest to acquire outside of the big 4. Eddie Mathews, Warren Spahn, and Yogi Berra will also be expensive to acquire. A few cards in the beginning of the set don't pop up that often on ebay, and when they do, they are super pricey. Some of the cards I didn't win tonight went for really shocking prices.

Willie Miranda, #278, is going to be one of the most expensive of the non-Big 4 to grab, an EX/EXMINT copy went for $159 tonight. I was willing to pay $125. But damn.

A NR/MINT Harvey Haddix went for $218.50. My max bid was $200. I was actually sad about this one, even though I obviously had a tremendous night. This card is super tough and super expensive. The centering wasn't great, which is why I passed.

#260, Sam Calderone, is a really tough card to find in good clean condition with good centering. The last 2 that I had on my watch list were both probably 70/30 centering. One tonight went for $51 in EX/EXMINT. Just outside of what I wanted to pay, especially with the mediocre centering.

#265, Jackie Jensen, is another one that commands big $$ because its tough to find in really good condition. One in EX/EXMINT went for $73 tonight, my limit was around $55...

#250, Bob Wilson, was my biggest miss of the night. The one listed was EX/EXMINT but it was really clean. I had a max of $35 in my notes, but when I switched tabs the timer was at 3 seconds and I couldn't hit submit fast enough. It sold for $20.59. Major sad.

#255, Dixie Howell....he is in my list above. I thought I was buying a nice EX copy, but the card wasn't that when it got to me, so I wanted this EX/EXMINT copy. It went for $109. My max bid was $68. Yeah well.

#243, Carlos Bernier, I almost debated changing course here, because it was a NR/MINT copy and this card is tough to find really well-centered. This copy was almost perfect, and it went for $70. My max bid was $65, and I kind of regret not throwing in for $75 to see what happened.

Some cards that I have priced in the $15-20 range for EX/EXMINT went for stupid high prices. #221 Solly Hemus went for $52, #235 John Hetki went for $42, #227 Morris Martin went for $62. #153 Andy Semenick went for almost $29....and I had my max at $14. Oops.

#109, Alvin Dark, went for $70 for an EX/EXMINT copy. VCP has a PSA 5 avg for this card at $24. Very odd. #95 Willard Marshall went for $34.50 in an EX/EXMINT...VCP lists a PSA 5 average of $13.26. Again, weird.

Anyway. This is actually what makes the hobby so much fun for me. I've just been scrolling through all those cards I was watching, looking at the final prices, trying to figure out what I missed, and staring at some of the big ones I managed to pull tonight.

This is exactly the approach I took for my 56 set build. It was super fun and I landed many great deals through GMC. I also just put in my max for a bunch of cards that my eye appeal standards and let the chips fall where they may. It took a while to finish the set but it was crazy fun to build.

Now I’m in the “pruning” stage where I’m going through upgrading different cards, mostly the stars. It’s fun but not as fun as the initial build. Thanks for the updates and good luck!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

vintg · 06-22-2020, 07:00 PM

Yeah, I regularly check the prices on Mantle, Mays, Jackie and Satchel Paige. If I see a 5 that is at the bottom of the price scale for what I expect to pay, I'll probably jump. The cheapest sales of those 4 in a PSA 5 in the last 3 months:

Mantle: $4250
Mays: $2200
Jackie: $460
Paige: $550

But then again, it can't just be any 5, it needs to be a well-centered 5.

since the 1st of the year, the lowest Jackie that I saw on vcp was $633,
and it was badly off-centered.

also, a "5" sold for $855 (may 8th) which is an embarrassment to psa, it is no better than a 4, and would be lucky to get that.

anyways, you are going to be successful because of your attitude,
research, tenacity, (money, lol), eye appeal.

I, for one, am very glad you posted on blowout instead of net 54, keep it
up. thanks.

albatross7979 · 06-23-2020, 09:35 PM

So I got a surprise shipment from COMC that I had forgot I even requested, it was delayed for weeks because of COVID-19. This shipment included a lot of the commons that I bought for a few bucks, and most of them upon closer inspection were likely PSA 3s with a few 4s. I did find 4 or 5 cards in the lot that I am going to send in with my submission next week, because they are cards that do sell for $15-20 in a PSA 4, so if they come back 4s, I'll have made money on those.

I have started listing my PSA 4s and 4.5s on ebay since I made my decision to go with a baseline grade of 5 moving forward, and I've already sold a bunch of them. I also put together a big set of raw cards (164 in total, so 60% of the entire set) from all of the items I've purchased that just likely won't grade at PSA 5. A lot of the cards are VGEX, but just not worth the risk to grade, so I figured I'd throw them into an auction. Not sure it will sell, because I'm not pricing it to sell no matter what, but if it does sell, it will prevent me from having to re-scan every single raw card and list them individually.

I should get 2 shipments of cards from GMC this week, the one from 2 weeks ago that was sent regular mail, and the big order from this past Sunday with all my gems. I've started organizing everything into cardsavers and getting the order organized, I will do another post summarizing my submission when everything is in place. And then I'll probably have to wait 7-9 months to get them back. Such is life.

Thor34 · 06-24-2020, 11:15 AM

What a great read!

crose · 06-24-2020, 02:45 PM

Enjoyed reading your story. I did something very similar with the 63 topps set a while ago. I finished the set but eventually gave up on upgrading everything to PSA. I had a good time while doing it though.

I kept track of the seller, price, stated condition, and PSA grade I received on all cards that I sent in. Here are the results I got on Greg Morris:

1. Nm-mt PSA 5
2. Nm-mt PSA 5
3. NM PSA 7
4. NM PSA 8
5. Nm-mt PSA 6
6. Nm-mt PSA 7
7. Nm-mt PSA 7
8. NM PSA 6
9. Nm-mt PSA No
10. Nm-mt PSA 7

A quick look at prices all cards listed above had a selling price of between $5 and $15. And I was very pleased with the condition on all cards I sent in (even those that didn’t grade as well).

Anyway good luck with your quest. Building sets is one of the more fun things to do in the hobby imo. Learn a lot about seasons past.

VanLingoMungo46 · 06-24-2020, 03:49 PM

That's interesting that you did just as good if not better with cards rated NM rather than NM-MT. Not sure what the key takeaway is there, but anyway...

Getting back to the '53 set. I read that the reason this set has so many obscure players is that Bowman had signed so many top guys to exclusive contracts back then that Topps had no choice but to incorporate a lot of obscure players into this set. In terms of the artwork, I find it hit or miss. Not a fan of the Eddie Mathews, or the Spahn cards, but man they got a few cards really good, such as Pee Wee, which is one of my favorite cards of my collection and the only '53 that I own.

albatross7979 · 06-24-2020, 04:05 PM

I actually really like the Eddie Mathews card, but I agree, not a fan of the Spahn card. The Whitey Ford card looks kind of odd too, imo. The Pee Wee Reese card is lovely, very nice.

A few of my favs

albatross7979 · 06-29-2020, 03:01 PM

quick update: my big order from GMC arrived today, just in time to go into my PSA order. An order I placed from GMC a few weeks ago hasn't arrived, im afraid it may be lost in the mail, but that was only 5 or 6 cards, so it isnt the end of the world, and it was sent regular mail so it may just be taking longer. I will do a full update later once I have my submission finalized, but it is looking like it will be 60+ cards.

fduran27 · 06-29-2020, 08:08 PM

good luck - i am also doing this set, but i post on net45

albatross7979 · 06-29-2020, 08:24 PM

well, the PSA submission is ready. I ended up with 75 total cards, 70 of which are for the 1953 Topps set, the other 5 are for the 1941 Play Ball set I am putting together. So 70 cards.

All told, I'm slightly underwhelmed by the raw cards I purchased a few weeks ago. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, or maybe I've been looking at modern cards too much lately, but I've reset my expectations to get back lots of 5s and a few 6s, and maybe one or two 7s. Will I be heartbroken if that is the case? Nah. But I may have to re-calibrate my expectations and plan moving forward and instead just look to buy cards already graded. Of course that might change when I actually get these cards back from PSA.

My plan is to not look at the grading summary online and be surprised when they come back. I will be sure to post a full report when they return in like 8 months.

In the meantime, I will be looking for PSA 5s or better of the cards I don't own. The quest continues

vintg · 06-29-2020, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albatross7979

well, the PSA submission is ready. I ended up with 75 total cards, 70 of which are for the 1953 Topps set, the other 5 are for the 1941 Play Ball set I am putting together. So 70 cards.

All told, I'm slightly underwhelmed by the raw cards I purchased a few weeks ago. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, or maybe I've been looking at modern cards too much lately, but I've reset my expectations to get back lots of 5s and a few 6s, and maybe one or two 7s. Will I be heartbroken if that is the case? Nah. But I may have to re-calibrate my expectations and plan moving forward and instead just look to buy cards already graded. Of course that might change when I actually get these cards back from PSA.

My plan is to not look at the grading summary online and be surprised when they come back. I will be sure to post a full report when they return in like 8 months.
In the meantime, I will be looking for PSA 5s or better of the cards I don't own. The quest continues

this made me laugh. so true.

IgnatiusJReilly · 06-29-2020, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albatross7979

well, the PSA submission is ready. I ended up with 75 total cards, 70 of which are for the 1953 Topps set, the other 5 are for the 1941 Play Ball set I am putting together. So 70 cards.

All told, I'm slightly underwhelmed by the raw cards I purchased a few weeks ago. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, or maybe I've been looking at modern cards too much lately, but I've reset my expectations to get back lots of 5s and a few 6s, and maybe one or two 7s. Will I be heartbroken if that is the case? Nah. But I may have to re-calibrate my expectations and plan moving forward and instead just look to buy cards already graded. Of course that might change when I actually get these cards back from PSA.

My plan is to not look at the grading summary online and be surprised when they come back. I will be sure to post a full report when they return in like 8 months.

In the meantime, I will be looking for PSA 5s or better of the cards I don't own. The quest continues

I know the feeling. I spent the better part of 2017-2018 grading my raw 56 star cards and flipping them for high eye appeal graded. I couldn’t deal with the imperfections of my raw. Don’t get me wrong, I still have a strong dislike for PSA but I have come to a livable balance if I stick to more recent cert #s and try to stay patient.

I love these updates, keep em coming!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

albatross7979 · 07-01-2020, 12:29 PM

So last night I updated my huge Excel file that I use to track all of the sets I am building. I update prices from VCP every few weeks, just so I have recent data when browsing cards. As I was updating it, I decided to only update the prices for PSA 5s and 7s. I don't want PSA 6s as they won't fit into my overall 3 phase plan. When I started looking at some of the spreads between 5s and 7s, I realized it was only maybe $20-25 on some cards. So I am thinking at this point that if I can buy a card I do not have in a PSA 7 for less than $50, I will probably just do that. I originally thought I should target a full set in PSA 5, then move to a full set in PSA 7. But for about 100-125 of the cards in this set, I think the difference between a 7 and 5 will be less than $40, and it doesn't make sense to buy the 5 (unless its a really great deal), only to have to resell it down the road to buy the 7. And I suspect as prices creep up, they are going to creep up faster on the 7s than they do on the 5s.

So I think at this point I am going to start looking for more PSA 7s. I actually just wrote a formula into the spreadsheet. 152 cards have a spread from the 5 to the 7 of less than $40. So I think that is my new approach now.

06-21-2020, 07:41 PM	#5
unitasfan Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: KC,MO Posts: 1,628	Wow, that's a big undertaking. That set in 5 and better is gonna be stunning. Look forward to seeing how u do with the raw cards. I have been pretty lucky at getting some of my Hof rc in the raw and grading well. __________________ Nescit Cedere

06-21-2020, 05:48 PM	#1
albatross7979 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 195	My 1953 Topps Adventure First post on the boards, I've lurked for a while before deciding to register and post. I do not have a website or a blog or social media, so I figured I would use this thread to document my 1953 Topps adventure. I am in my late 30s and just recently got back into the hobby after disconnecting from cards in the mid 90s. When I moved away to college, someone either threw away or sold all of my cards, and I wasn't too bothered by it, since I didn't really have anything of great value. Like a lot of people my age, most of my collection was late 80s/early 90s junk wax. Last year a former co-worker was chatting with me and asked if I ever collected cards. He told me he was excited about the Topps Living Collection set, and after googling it, I saw that it was an update on the 1953 Topps set, which was my absolute dream set as a kid. I remember there was a card stand at the local flea market, and the guy had a bunch of 1953 Topps cards, but they were in a special protective case. The allure and mystery of the protective case always made me want the cards more, and I was blown away at the art and how good the cards looked. I was intrigued when my friend showed me the Living Set info, and I decided to start reading more about the hobby. I had no real idea about grading cards, costs, or anything else. I mostly just read for a while, and then I decided to start exploring more, and one of the places I checked out was COMC. I ended up adding a few hundred dollars to the site just to mess around. I did a little bit of flipping, because that concept was easy for me, and then thought I'd start collecting the 1953 Topps cards. But, I really didn't have a plan. I basically started buying a bunch of low grade versions of the common cards. After I'd amassed like 50 of the cards, I realized that the copies I was buying were not going to be suitable for an actual collection. Work and life got in the way and I kind of put the cards to the side for a while. However, in the last 3 months, I have decided to reboot my 1953 project. I did a lot of thinking about how I wanted to approach it, what my goals are, and I am now back into the swing of things. I made myself 3 distinct goals for my journey: * Complete the Base Set (274 cards) with every card being graded a PSA 5 or higher * Complete the Master Set (274 base cards + both copies of the cards that feature different backs) in a PSA 5 or higher * Complete the Master Set at PSA 7 or higher As you can see, the degree of difficulty increases with each of the 3 tasks. I believe there are 80 cards that have variations where the color on the bio info on the back of the card is either in black or white. My goal for objective #2 is to collect both versions of each of these cards. A few of these will be very expensive, including Hoyt Wilhelm, Smoky Burgess, Early Wynn, Joe Black, Billy Martin, Yogi Berra, Phil Rizzuto, Johnny Sain, Dick Williams, Allie Reynolds, Warren Spahn, Dick Groat and Ted Kluszewski. The final goal is of course to upgrade the complete master set to a PSA 7 or higher, which is more of a lifetime goal than anything else. After weeding out my low quality cards, I began to focus my search on the PSA 5 or higher cards. I managed to accumulate a decent chunk of cards in the last 2 months. According to my set registry at PSA, I currently have 55 of the 274 base cards collected, with an average grade of 5.12. I have a lot of commons, but I've also picked up a bunch of high number cards as well, including Charlie Silvera (tough to find an affordable, nicely centered version), Bob Boyd, Roy McMillan, Gene Woodling and Duane Pillette. I only have one HoF so far, a nice PSA 5 of Early Wynn. About a month ago, I decided to slightly alter my approach to adding new cards to the collection. I noticed that sometimes as I'd be searching ebay, the PSA 5s or 6s of the cards I was targeting were in older slabs with scratches, or the cards just did not look great. I decided that a cool addition to this project would be to start looking at buying cards raw, submitting them for grading, and seeing where I ended up. This added a new layer to things, because if I could get the card at a real good price, even factoring in the cost of grading, I could still find value. PSA is actually running a special that ends in a few weeks where cards from the 50s can be submitted at a discounted rate, so I have been stocking up on a bunch of cards to submit for grading. I've been pretty picky about quality, and after spending a lot of time the last few weeks looking at raw cards from the set, it feels like I am limited to only one or two big sellers on ebay who routinely put out high quality versions of raw cards and are accurate in their grading. What some people will list and call "EX/Near Mint" is shocking. BUT, this just makes it all the more fun and rewarding when you do strike gold. In my pile to submit for grading this week, I have the following: Smoky Burgess - A very nice copy, hopefully either a 5 or 6 Johnny Groth - A really clean example, could be pushing a PSA 7 Red Schoendienst - Two copies that I picked up cheaply, likely PSA 4s, but if they are, I will be able to sell them for a profit Joe Nuxhall - This card has been tough to find in really great condition, for some reason Hoyt Wilhelm - Looks like a borderline 5, if its a 4 then I will sell it Rocky Krsnich - A high number, it is likely a 4, in which case I will sell it. Got it cheap Dick Kokos - Borderline 4/5, but picked up fairly cheaply Freddy Marsh - A borderline 4/5, will sell if its a 4 Bill Norman - A boderline 4/5 Preacher Roe - A borderline 4/5 Dixie Howell - A borderline 4/5 Bill Antonello - Looks like a 5 to me, we'll see As you can see, I've focused on the high numbers recently. I picked up all of those cards for under what a PSA 4 sells for, so if they come back 4s, then I will just list them up on ebay and sell them. If they come back 5s, they go into the collection. Buying raw and submitting for grading was more of an experiment. I'd love to have the cards freshly graded in new clean holders, and it would feel a bit more special to know I found them raw and got them graded. But if the results don't pan out, no big loss and I will continue to search for graded examples of the cards I need. This was a huge post, and maybe no one out there cares about 1953 Topps or my collection, but I figured I needed some place to track my project, since most of my friends don't really care about cards and think this is a ridiculous thing to do. I personally think the cards are beautiful, and vintage baseball cards are wonderful. So, thanks for reading if you did. I'll try to update the thread semi-regularly with my progress. My set is currently ranked #131 on the in progress leaderboard, so top 100 here we come.

06-21-2020, 06:00 PM	#2
vintg Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 1,054	first of all, congrats !! the '53 topps is almost larger than life, beautiful to me. that being said, I "only" have 2, mantle sgc 1.5, and Jackie robinson psa 5 , DEAD centered. (sorry, not for sale, lol) next on "my" list is willie mays. that being said, I love you added the raw angle, sending in for grade. last, have you considered "cracking out" beckett 5.5's (or 6's) and sgc 5 and 5.5s ?? just my 2 cent advice, as I am not a set collector. good luck !!

06-21-2020, 06:09 PM	#3
albatross7979 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 195	I'd love to see your Jackie in a 5, I am sure its gorgeous. I am saving the big 4 (Jackie, Mantle, Mays, Satch) until closer to the end, or until I find a really good price. Those 4 are going to cost a small fortune. I have considered cracking out SCGs and Becketts. It is probably an avenue I will explore a bit more as I move forward. One thing that has been interesting/fun is that I've basically memorized the 274 card checklist because of the amount of time I've spent researching and looking up cards. I had no idea who Roy Face was a few months ago, now finding him centered in a clean PSA 5 or 6 has become like a part time job. But that is what makes this so fun

06-21-2020, 06:33 PM	#4
rats60 Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,885	It sounds like what I have been doing with the t205 set. One change I would make to your strategy is to get the top 4 cards early as you are more likely to pay more later than commons which go up in price much slower. I am also doing the 1955 set, but am only doing the stars in PSA cases and leaving the commons raw.

06-21-2020, 09:50 PM	#6
albatross7979 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 195	well folks, tonight was a rollercoaster. I didn't call them out by name, but in my original post I noted that there are only a few really good sellers on ebay who not only grade their stuff accurately, but who also list high quality items. The go to at this point for me is probably not a shock, but it is Greg Morris cards. His stuff is absolutely incredible. For the last month or so, he's been listing 60-70 cards from the 1953 set that expire on Sunday evening. It has become a tradition for me to open up 40 tabs with 40 different listings (because they all end within like 30 seconds of each other, some within 5 seconds of each other!) and see if I can't snipe my way to a few cards. Well, tonight I got more than a few cards. My basic practice is to make myself a note of my max bid, put in the bid with a few seconds left, and if I win, cool, if not I just move on. I get my prices mostly by using VCP and also checking out past auctions, and also looking at the prices of the PSA 5/6/7s listed on ebay for the player. I spend (probably way too much) time really digging into the values, but it also comes down to the actual cards. I'm a huge stickler on centering, I can forgive a blemished edge or corner, but my eyes need good centering or it takes away from the card. Anyway, tonight's auction run had a TON of cards in NR/MINT shape, and also tons of EX/EXMINT versions too. I did not expect to win any of the NR/MINT listings. But, well, yeah. So, here is how I did tonight: Ray Boone (EX/EXMINT) $16.50 Eddie Pellagrini (EX/EXMINT) $11.50 Karl Drews (EX/EXMINT) $15.50 Bob Borkowski (EX/EXMINT) $16.50 Dick Brodowski (EX/EXMINT) $12.27 Billy Martin (VG/VGEX) $67.88 Paul Minner (EX/EXMINT)$12.50 Don Kolloway (EX/EXMINT) $9.05 Ken Heintzelman (NR/MINT) $24.22 Harry Dorish (EX/EXMINT) $8.50 Bob Young (EX/EXMINT) $9.49 Billy Hoeft (EX/EXMINT) $14.89 Bill Hunter (NR/MINT) $16.39 Gene Hermanski (EX/EXMINT) $10.50 Marion Fricano (EX/EXMINT) $10.50 Whitey Ford (VG/VGEX) $75.00 Hal Newhouser (EX/EXMINT) $106.50 Rocky Krsnich (NR/MINT) $76.00 Freddie Marsh (NR/MINT) $92.00 Gene Stephens (NR/MINT) $50.55 Sid Hudson (NR/MINT) $92.00 Henry Foiles (EX/EXMINT) $56.00 Les Peden (EX/EXMINT) $31.99 Vern Stephens (EX/EXMINT) $36.05 John Riddle (NR/MINT) $162.50 Ken Raffensberger (EX/EXMINT) $41.00 Don Lund (EX/EXMINT) $49.00 ....over $1100. I was actually speechless at the end. I never imagined being able to scoop so many of those cards at the prices I did. Here are my numbers on those cards. I am always looking at the average prices on VCP, then adjusting for more recent trends I've seen, while also pricing in the little premium I'll place on having a card that I can buy raw and get graded, and factor in the $8ish dollars per card for the grading fee/shipping. I think GMC actually might slightly undergrade their cards, so when I think about my prices, for an EX/EXMINT, I am assuming a 5 about 40% of the time and 6 about 60% of the time. Maybe not, if the guy at PSA grading my cards is in a bad mood, but this is all an inexact science to a degree, so whatever. Anyway, here are my results along with my notes I won't go through every card, a lot of them were just right in my range, but there were a few I wanted to note. Billy Martin - I didn't intend on buying this one, it was listed as a VG/VGEX, but I think it looks like a really good 4, and it might be a 5. If its a 4, I will sell it and try again, will only have cost a few dollars to give it a shot. Ken Heintzelman - This was one of those listed as NR/MINT. If you are assuming GMC is good at grading and is conservative, then I'd think maybe this comes back a 6 15% of the time, a 7 50% of the time, and an 8 35% of the time. Depends on the day. A PSA 7 recently sold for $42. If this comes back a 6, then I will basically break even. It comes back a 7 or an 8, then I'm ahead of the game. Bill Hunter - Another in the NR/MINT category. A PSA 6 recently sold for $19, a 7 for around $40. I paid $16.39 for this one. Happy with it. Whitey Ford - Another one I wasn't really expecting to win. I looked at the card for 5-10 minutes earlier today. It looks really clean. Only one corner on the front shows any real wear, and its just a little chipping, its not rounded. Edges look good, centering isn't perfect, but its not too distracting. A PSA 4 sold for $84 last week. A PSA 5 sold for $105 a few days ago. If I get a good PSA grader, I think this has a chance at a 5. If its a 4, I'm fine with that too. Hal Newhouser - Here is where things started to get wild. I was NOT expecting to win this card. It looks AMAZING Corners look great, edges look good. Centering top to bottom looks good, left to right isnt 50/50, but its not too bad either. Back of the card looks perfect with the same centering as the front. The last PSA 5 Newhouser that completed was for $100 in early May. A 6 just sold for $122 a few weeks ago, but the one before that sold for $189. I think there is a sliver of a chance this comes back even better than a 6. Probably not. But, I will take that shot. Rocky Krsnich - As I noted in my opening post, I have a copy of this card that I know will come back as a 4 or 5. This one was listed as NR/MINT and I assumed I had no shot of winning it. A PSA 6 sells for around $45. Above a 6 is rare. The last 7 sold for $90 back in February. But prices on all of the 1953 set have gone up over the last few months. If this card is a 7 and I list it, I'd expect to get at least $115 for it. A PSA 8 hasn't sold in over a year, and the last 2 that sold went for $300+. I paid $76 for this one. The edges and corners appear to be mint. The centering isnt 50/50. Its probably a 7. I'm fine with a 7 for $76. Freddie Marsh - At this point I didn't even know what to think, but I wasn't going to stop bidding. My values are my values, if I get the cards at good prices, then just buy them. Marsh, like Krsnich, is a high number, is tough to find in great condition, and is expensive. This one was again listed as NR/MINT and I assumed was out of my range. PSA 7s and 8s dont show up frequently. The last 7 to list was in April, it listed for $195 and it sold for best offer. The last one that sold at auction went for $130 last June. The last PSA 8 sold for $338 in November 2019. I paid $92. I'm happy with it. The card looks incredible. Gene Stephens - Was also listed at NR/MINT. A PSA 7 sells for $60+, the last PSA 8 went for $300+. This one is really sharp and looks like a 7. I paid $50. Fine by me. Sid Hudson - Another high number, another card that commands a big premium, another card listed at NR/MINT. An offcenter PSA 7 sold for $60 a few days ago, but of course the OC knocks it down about 2 grades in price. The last clean 7 to sell at auction went for $167 in February. The last two PSA 8s went for $500+. The top to bottom centering on mine probably makes it a 7 and not an 8. But for $92, on a card that rarely comes up in this condition....I was thrilled. Henry Foiles - Another tough card to find in really good condition. This was EX/EXMINT. A 5 will sell for around $60, a 6 for around $75-80. I paid $56, and I was willing to pay maybe a little bit more because it looks really good, especially the centering. The bottom right corner isn't great, but this is a tough card, so I was fine paying a few dollars more than I might have otherwise. John Riddle - At this point, I was close to delirious. I thought surely I would not win the bidding on this card. It was listed at NR/MINT. Riddle is #274 out of 280 and a super tough card. A PSA 6 of this card sold on BIN for $233 a few weeks ago. Only one PSA 5 was listed for auction in about a year's time. The last PSA 7 to sell at auction went for $250 in February. The last PSA 8 sold at auction for...$750. In January 2020. I paid $162. I did not imagine bidding for this card. But I saw it sitting at $150 and felt like I had to. I'm glad I did. It looks like a 7. It is going right into the collection when it comes back from PSA. Ken Raffensberger - Another high number that fetches big prices. This one was EX/EXMINT. A PSA 5 sells for $50-60. A 6 will sell for between $70-100. I paid $41. The centering is really good, one of the corners isnt perfect. Probably a 5, which is fine. Don Lund - And thus ends the insanity. This is another card that is tough to find in great condition with good centering. A 5 sells for around $40, a 6 for between $50-60. I paid in the middle, maybe a few dollars too high, but the card looks great and the centering is very good. All told, this was sort of insane. My PSA submission will probably now have around 60-70 cards in it, maybe more.

06-21-2020, 10:08 PM	#7
crazy4kinsler Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 16,220	This is an awesome task, and I look forward to following along. May I also suggest you cross post this over on Net54. Those guys over there are so much more knowledgeable on the vintage front whereas this site is mostly newer, shiny, autographed stuff. I didn't say ALL of this site was like that. But the majority is. So I'd suggest trying the Net54 site.

06-21-2020, 11:09 PM	#8
albatross7979 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 195	Thanks, I might do that, but I will have a hard time keeping up with things in 2 places, lol. So after tonight's splurge, I've updated my PSA submission list. I'm also submitting a handful of other cards from different sets, including a few from the 1941 Play Ball set, which is the other one I am currently working on, but that one takes a back seat to 1953 Topps, obviously. I am really interested to see what kinds of grades I get. The cards on the left were bought from random sellers on ebay, and generally the cards underperformed when I got them in the mail. I may actually pull a few from that list, but I don't really want to re-list them raw and have to point out the flaws the previous seller didn't, so I might just slab them and sell them, then at least there are no questions about the card. I have a Minnie Minoso that was supposed to be delivered last week that still hasn't come in. If I receive it, it will go in the submission. Otherwise, that looks like my list. If things go well, I should have 40-50 cards to add to the collection in a few months. In looking at where my collection stands now, I have 31 of the cards from #220-280, which I think are the toughest to acquire outside of the big 4. Eddie Mathews, Warren Spahn, and Yogi Berra will also be expensive to acquire. A few cards in the beginning of the set don't pop up that often on ebay, and when they do, they are super pricey. Some of the cards I didn't win tonight went for really shocking prices. Willie Miranda, #278, is going to be one of the most expensive of the non-Big 4 to grab, an EX/EXMINT copy went for $159 tonight. I was willing to pay $125. But damn. A NR/MINT Harvey Haddix went for $218.50. My max bid was $200. I was actually sad about this one, even though I obviously had a tremendous night. This card is super tough and super expensive. The centering wasn't great, which is why I passed. #260, Sam Calderone, is a really tough card to find in good clean condition with good centering. The last 2 that I had on my watch list were both probably 70/30 centering. One tonight went for $51 in EX/EXMINT. Just outside of what I wanted to pay, especially with the mediocre centering. #265, Jackie Jensen, is another one that commands big $$ because its tough to find in really good condition. One in EX/EXMINT went for $73 tonight, my limit was around $55... #250, Bob Wilson, was my biggest miss of the night. The one listed was EX/EXMINT but it was really clean. I had a max of $35 in my notes, but when I switched tabs the timer was at 3 seconds and I couldn't hit submit fast enough. It sold for $20.59. Major sad. #255, Dixie Howell....he is in my list above. I thought I was buying a nice EX copy, but the card wasn't that when it got to me, so I wanted this EX/EXMINT copy. It went for $109. My max bid was $68. Yeah well. #243, Carlos Bernier, I almost debated changing course here, because it was a NR/MINT copy and this card is tough to find really well-centered. This copy was almost perfect, and it went for $70. My max bid was $65, and I kind of regret not throwing in for $75 to see what happened. Some cards that I have priced in the $15-20 range for EX/EXMINT went for stupid high prices. #221 Solly Hemus went for $52, #235 John Hetki went for $42, #227 Morris Martin went for $62. #153 Andy Semenick went for almost $29....and I had my max at $14. Oops. #109, Alvin Dark, went for $70 for an EX/EXMINT copy. VCP has a PSA 5 avg for this card at $24. Very odd. #95 Willard Marshall went for $34.50 in an EX/EXMINT...VCP lists a PSA 5 average of $13.26. Again, weird. Anyway. This is actually what makes the hobby so much fun for me. I've just been scrolling through all those cards I was watching, looking at the final prices, trying to figure out what I missed, and staring at some of the big ones I managed to pull tonight.

06-21-2020, 11:16 PM	#9
albatross7979 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 195	Also, I went through my PSA set registry today and added in all of the cards I currently have graded and uploaded scans for each. I did it quickly so I might need to re-scan some of the cards later, but for now, its there. When this batch comes back from PSA I might re-scan all of them and do fresh uploads. My username on PSA is the same as here if anyone wants to see scans of the cards I already have.

06-22-2020, 07:04 AM	#10
rats60 Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,885	How are you checking to see if they have color added to the border? Do you use a black light? This is the one disadvantage to buying raw. At least with graded there is a good chance they have been examined unless they were submitted by Moser and friends.

06-22-2020, 07:37 AM	#11
VanLingoMungo46 Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 695	Thanks for sharing your experiences, albatross7979. I love the attention to detail and your trials and tribulations on EBay. I have experienced many of the same experiences in my quest to complete the '57 set. A lot of people are building older sets right now. You're seeing lots of comp and so am I as I assemble the last few tough commons of the '57 set. The prices for commons have really jumped on '57s in the last few months, along wit the stars. I agree with the poster who said you might want to go after some of the most expensive cards sooner rather than later. Once you get that Mantle, Mays, etc, your commitment level will go up. Hard to know for certain if this is a short term bubble for vintage, so you might get paid off if you wait, if the economy takes a turn for the worse prices will come down. But there's reason to think 50s vintage is going to be in high demand for the long haul. People love collecting baseball cards, and being stuck at home with fewer entertainment options seems to be driving things up. Interesting that Harvey Haddix is a tough card in the '53 set. I'm having a really tough time finding his 57 card, which is the first # of series 4 and supposedly a DP. It's not cheap. Curious to see how your goals evolve as you keep building. Sounds like you are in it for the long haul, which is great. I wonder if your PSA gambit will work. Those cards that don't meet your standards for 5s, will still cost $ to grade and have limited resale value. I totally identify with your challenges of buying raw. More often than not the card does not live up to the standard applied by the seller. Usually this comes in the form of undisclosed surface blemishes. Find a few good, lower profile sellers and when you get quality from them, make them your go-to guys (and gals). That's what I have done, but yeah buying raw on line is tough and as rat60 said, with 53s you also have to worry about corner coloring.

06-22-2020, 07:00 PM	#14
vintg Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 1,054	Yeah, I regularly check the prices on Mantle, Mays, Jackie and Satchel Paige. If I see a 5 that is at the bottom of the price scale for what I expect to pay, I'll probably jump. The cheapest sales of those 4 in a PSA 5 in the last 3 months: Mantle: $4250 Mays: $2200 Jackie: $460 Paige: $550 But then again, it can't just be any 5, it needs to be a well-centered 5. since the 1st of the year, the lowest Jackie that I saw on vcp was $633, and it was badly off-centered. also, a "5" sold for $855 (may 8th) which is an embarrassment to psa, it is no better than a 4, and would be lucky to get that. anyways, you are going to be successful because of your attitude, research, tenacity, (money, lol), eye appeal. I, for one, am very glad you posted on blowout instead of net 54, keep it up. thanks.

06-23-2020, 09:35 PM	#15
albatross7979 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 195	So I got a surprise shipment from COMC that I had forgot I even requested, it was delayed for weeks because of COVID-19. This shipment included a lot of the commons that I bought for a few bucks, and most of them upon closer inspection were likely PSA 3s with a few 4s. I did find 4 or 5 cards in the lot that I am going to send in with my submission next week, because they are cards that do sell for $15-20 in a PSA 4, so if they come back 4s, I'll have made money on those. I have started listing my PSA 4s and 4.5s on ebay since I made my decision to go with a baseline grade of 5 moving forward, and I've already sold a bunch of them. I also put together a big set of raw cards (164 in total, so 60% of the entire set) from all of the items I've purchased that just likely won't grade at PSA 5. A lot of the cards are VGEX, but just not worth the risk to grade, so I figured I'd throw them into an auction. Not sure it will sell, because I'm not pricing it to sell no matter what, but if it does sell, it will prevent me from having to re-scan every single raw card and list them individually. I should get 2 shipments of cards from GMC this week, the one from 2 weeks ago that was sent regular mail, and the big order from this past Sunday with all my gems. I've started organizing everything into cardsavers and getting the order organized, I will do another post summarizing my submission when everything is in place. And then I'll probably have to wait 7-9 months to get them back. Such is life.

06-24-2020, 11:15 AM	#16
Thor34 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Maine Posts: 1,465	What a great read!

06-24-2020, 02:45 PM	#17
crose Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 665 caleb.rose	Enjoyed reading your story. I did something very similar with the 63 topps set a while ago. I finished the set but eventually gave up on upgrading everything to PSA. I had a good time while doing it though. I kept track of the seller, price, stated condition, and PSA grade I received on all cards that I sent in. Here are the results I got on Greg Morris: 1. Nm-mt PSA 5 2. Nm-mt PSA 5 3. NM PSA 7 4. NM PSA 8 5. Nm-mt PSA 6 6. Nm-mt PSA 7 7. Nm-mt PSA 7 8. NM PSA 6 9. Nm-mt PSA No 10. Nm-mt PSA 7 A quick look at prices all cards listed above had a selling price of between $5 and $15. And I was very pleased with the condition on all cards I sent in (even those that didn’t grade as well). Anyway good luck with your quest. Building sets is one of the more fun things to do in the hobby imo. Learn a lot about seasons past.

06-24-2020, 03:49 PM	#18
VanLingoMungo46 Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 695	That's interesting that you did just as good if not better with cards rated NM rather than NM-MT. Not sure what the key takeaway is there, but anyway... Getting back to the '53 set. I read that the reason this set has so many obscure players is that Bowman had signed so many top guys to exclusive contracts back then that Topps had no choice but to incorporate a lot of obscure players into this set. In terms of the artwork, I find it hit or miss. Not a fan of the Eddie Mathews, or the Spahn cards, but man they got a few cards really good, such as Pee Wee, which is one of my favorite cards of my collection and the only '53 that I own.

06-24-2020, 04:05 PM	#19
albatross7979 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 195	I actually really like the Eddie Mathews card, but I agree, not a fan of the Spahn card. The Whitey Ford card looks kind of odd too, imo. The Pee Wee Reese card is lovely, very nice. A few of my favs

06-29-2020, 03:01 PM	#20
albatross7979 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 195	quick update: my big order from GMC arrived today, just in time to go into my PSA order. An order I placed from GMC a few weeks ago hasn't arrived, im afraid it may be lost in the mail, but that was only 5 or 6 cards, so it isnt the end of the world, and it was sent regular mail so it may just be taking longer. I will do a full update later once I have my submission finalized, but it is looking like it will be 60+ cards.

06-29-2020, 08:08 PM	#21
fduran27 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Miami Posts: 2,316 Fduran27 Fduran27	good luck - i am also doing this set, but i post on net45

06-29-2020, 08:24 PM	#22
albatross7979 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 195	well, the PSA submission is ready. I ended up with 75 total cards, 70 of which are for the 1953 Topps set, the other 5 are for the 1941 Play Ball set I am putting together. So 70 cards. All told, I'm slightly underwhelmed by the raw cards I purchased a few weeks ago. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, or maybe I've been looking at modern cards too much lately, but I've reset my expectations to get back lots of 5s and a few 6s, and maybe one or two 7s. Will I be heartbroken if that is the case? Nah. But I may have to re-calibrate my expectations and plan moving forward and instead just look to buy cards already graded. Of course that might change when I actually get these cards back from PSA. My plan is to not look at the grading summary online and be surprised when they come back. I will be sure to post a full report when they return in like 8 months. In the meantime, I will be looking for PSA 5s or better of the cards I don't own. The quest continues

07-01-2020, 12:29 PM	#25
albatross7979 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 195	So last night I updated my huge Excel file that I use to track all of the sets I am building. I update prices from VCP every few weeks, just so I have recent data when browsing cards. As I was updating it, I decided to only update the prices for PSA 5s and 7s. I don't want PSA 6s as they won't fit into my overall 3 phase plan. When I started looking at some of the spreads between 5s and 7s, I realized it was only maybe $20-25 on some cards. So I am thinking at this point that if I can buy a card I do not have in a PSA 7 for less than $50, I will probably just do that. I originally thought I should target a full set in PSA 5, then move to a full set in PSA 7. But for about 100-125 of the cards in this set, I think the difference between a 7 and 5 will be less than $40, and it doesn't make sense to buy the 5 (unless its a really great deal), only to have to resell it down the road to buy the 7. And I suspect as prices creep up, they are going to creep up faster on the 7s than they do on the 5s. So I think at this point I am going to start looking for more PSA 7s. I actually just wrote a formula into the spreadsheet. 152 cards have a spread from the 5 to the 7 of less than $40. So I think that is my new approach now.