1994 Marvel Universe/Spider-Man Hologram Discussion.

[Wolf8MeVillie]

So I have gone through my fair share of these holograms, they are from 1994 Marvel Universe and Amazing Spider-Man series. I have been on Jeff Allender's page with the checklists, but I don't get why there is such a huge variation in some of the holograms. Here is an example.


All three pictures are of the same card. One was taken in a room with a natural light light bulb, one was taken with a soft yellow light bulb as the source, and obviously different angles are at play to. How does someone determine the color of the hologram. I've had people buy one and then ask me why I sent them a different one, I have seen other sellers get negative feedback probably due to similar issues. Anyone know why some of the holograms have such a large variation in color? Some are just outright green or red, no matter what light, but this one just throws me for a loop. Blue and Purple variations fetch way more money than the green or orange.

[jdandns]

Great topic (and knockout pictures of that awesome card, in any color!), but I wonder how many collectors even know of these 'round here, let alone own them, with them now being over 25 years old.

In my case, I was there to rip those packs when new, but was so oblivious to variations at that time, I never even considered there was anything different about any of the holograms before I (usually) jettisoned the doubles (in trades, well before Ebay existed). For that reason, whatever colors I ended up with in my own set is dumb luck.

I believe these kinds of color variations were also seen on the lone Spidey/Venom 1993 Marvel Universe IV Hologram, the 1994 Fleer Marvel Universe hologram set, and some Fleer "Batman Forever" chase holograms from around the same time. The same technology, and thus the variable colors, was used on the holograms affixed to a batch of special issues of X-Men and X-Men related comics also released in 1994 or so.

[DynaEtch]

Man, awesome card ^^^

I've had many of these Marvel 3D holograms and sold many over the years.

I'm not entirely convinced these were meant to be actual variations, and something I've noticed is even the blue or red holograms can look green at a different angle, like the one shown above. Can't remember seeing one that was a solid blue at every angle. Likely just the result of a variable production process, but who knows if storage conditions can affect this as well.

Allender's site does talk about relative rarity and some background of the hologram color variations. It's a tremendous resource in general for Marvel sets, but there are a few things on there that I'm skeptical of (for example, it mentions a 1995 Marvel Metal silver flasher checklist, #138, which it calls scarce, but I'm nearly 100% positive this card does not exist for various reasons), so maybe the info on these color hologram variations isn't spot on either, who knows.

In my experience the color variations do not command significant premiums, but deep, dark blues seem to sell for a little more. I personally would not be interested in obtaining all the colors for something like a master set, because I'm not convinced these are meant to be variations, and distinct group types are questionable. If selling, I think the best way is just to include several different angles of the card like the above, to show the buyer it's not a standard, single color, if that's the case.

I love these cards.....would be cool if companies now would do this with some inserts (there were holograms in sets like Marvel Retro, but were kinda lame). I realize 3D holograms are probably complicated to make, but you'd think the technology would still be there.

[Wolf8MeVillie]

I agree, for the most part, almost all of them appear green depending on the angle, I have had a hand full that weren't green at all, no matter what angle. I think maybe a few red/orange and even less of the blue ones. I just know a lot of new buyers that haven't dealt with these cards tend to email me and inquire if I sent the wrong one. I always send them to Allender's to read up and explain to them that it depends on light source and angle. Never had an issue after explaining, but I did notice a guy I deal with got negative this type of situation. I have adjusted my listings to state the various colors and try to included a few pictures showing this. Still crazy how one card can look so differently.

[BHotz]

Could have SWORN that it's all sunlight based.

As a preteen who collected the heck out of these in the 90s, I remember quite fondly leaving some in the back of my parents car exposed to sunlight on the hour+ trip back home from the mall and them changing colors. After it happening a few times, I quickly hid any pack-pulls from sunlight there-after Pretty sure I would have noticed pack-pulling the different colors as I was always obsessed with details like card condition/etc.

Thinking I always pulled them red or dark red and the bluish was after long exposure to sunlight. Anyways, I'm not 100% on any of this but that's sure how I remember it. Always wondered as awhile back I looked into buying some for nostalgia and noticed people on eBay listing "variations" that I always thought were "man-made" lol.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by BHotz

Could have SWORN that it's all sunlight based.

As a preteen who collected the heck out of these in the 90s, I remember quite fondly leaving some in the back of my parents car exposed to sunlight on the hour+ trip back home from the mall and them changing colors. After it happening a few times, I quickly hid any pack-pulls from sunlight there-after Pretty sure I would have noticed pack-pulling the different colors as I was always obsessed with details like card condition/etc.

Thinking I always pulled them red or dark red and the bluish was after long exposure to sunlight. Anyways, I'm not 100% on any of this but that's sure how I remember it. Always wondered as awhile back I looked into buying some for nostalgia and noticed people on eBay listing "variations" that I always thought were "man-made" lol.

Hmmm makes me wonder if this is actually a possibility....surprising it would change that fast in an hour or two. I almost want to do a controlled experiment with some of these 3D holos and see if anything changes with sun exposure.

I'm somewhat siding with the production variation (but not intentional or meant to be specific, official variations) theory, but you never know, that would be kinda funny if this was actually just an exposure thing. Whatever the case, there are definitely differences in existing holograms- for example, some are green tinted no matter which angle or light you put them in, while others can show the blue/red/orange at some angles.

[jyk913]

Originally Posted by BHotz

Could have SWORN that it's all sunlight based.

As a preteen who collected the heck out of these in the 90s, I remember quite fondly leaving some in the back of my parents car exposed to sunlight on the hour+ trip back home from the mall and them changing colors. After it happening a few times, I quickly hid any pack-pulls from sunlight there-after Pretty sure I would have noticed pack-pulling the different colors as I was always obsessed with details like card condition/etc.

Thinking I always pulled them red or dark red and the bluish was after long exposure to sunlight. Anyways, I'm not 100% on any of this but that's sure how I remember it. Always wondered as awhile back I looked into buying some for nostalgia and noticed people on eBay listing "variations" that I always thought were "man-made" lol.

TBH that theory that the sunlight changes them to blue is entirely possible, but I'm a bit hesitant due to the color saturation I've seen on some of the blues. UV degradation of inks typically hits the weaker pigments like Magenta/Fuschia and yellow before the blue/cyan and black. Although I'm a bit hesitant to say this is 100% since most yellow in chrome cards doesn't decay that fast resulting in "Hulking" (chrome cards where the fuscia/magenta has decayed leaving the yellow and cyan/blue) and i'm not positive about the ink pigments used in the holograms.

Edit: These green holograms are made from dyed dichromate gelatin and color variations can occur during the curing process. Temperature (consistent slow temperature changes lead to more green), PH balance (using an alcohol/water bath to cure them leads to more green) moisture (excess ammonium dichlorate on the surface during drying causes yellowing), and the type of laser used seem to be the main factors in the overall hologram color. The entire process requires so many factors that can go wrong (even vibrations from breathing in the same room or the diffusion of your body heat in the air messes the images up), so I can understand why we don't see these types of holograms anymore as opposed to the silver ones which can be printed and cured using a roller with micro plates.

[Super8er]

I pulled the Spidey/Venom 1993 Marvel Universe IV Hologram back when the product was new. I actually pulled two of them stuck together and nearly filled my drawers with excitement.

jyk913 is correct in how these holograms are made and why there are so many variances from card to card. I had an old art professor who knew a lot about how these were made. The way he described it, it's almost like every one of these holograms is a distinct and unique creation. They are not mass printed like a standard card, or even the more standard "2D" hologram - each of those 3D holograms is made uniquely, similar to making individual prints from a negative.

1993 DC Cosmic Teams from Skybox was a great example of really nice "2D" style holograms.

[duron]

So is the order of the Spider-Man hologram color hues from most to least common green, red, orange, blue?

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by duron

So is the order of the Spider-Man hologram color hues from most to least common green, red, orange, blue?

Pretty much the correct order, although it's a rough rule of thumb and not exact.

For the Spider-man vs Venom 3D hologram,

Green, and green/yellow seem the most common.

Maybe organish tint or reddish tint next.

Deep blue does seem more rare than the above. I've owned a couple of these in the past. A true deep blue covering the whole card will usually sell for a few hundred, maybe 300 or so.

Edit: my bad thought we were talking about the 1993 Universe Spidey Venom holo. Basically the above carries over to the 1994 universe spidey 3D holo. Although a true blue probably wouldnt sell for as high as the spidey venom.

[duron]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Pretty much the correct order, although it's a rough rule of thumb and not exact.

For the Spider-man vs Venom 3D hologram,

Green, and green/yellow seem the most common.

Maybe organish tint or reddish tint next.

Deep blue does seem more rare than the above. I've owned a couple of these in the past. A true deep blue covering the whole card will usually sell for a few hundred, maybe 300 or so.

Edit: my bad thought we were talking about the 1993 Universe Spidey Venom holo. Basically the above carries over to the 1994 universe spidey 3D holo. Although a true blue probably wouldnt sell for as high as the spidey venom.

Gotcha, thanks for the confirmation. I don’t recall anyone ever being aware of the color variation at the time, but that could easily explained by the fact that my sources of information were just, well, other 9 year olds.