2019 Hall of Fame Discussion

Skipscards · 01-04-2019, 07:48 PM

We are just a couple of weeks away from the big announcement but wanted to throw this here to talk about this year’s voting and upcoming class.

For those unaware, here’s the link to this year’s voting tracker:

2019 HOF Tracker

Now, don’t get too excited. Really it’s still early in the tracking but there are a few interesting results so far. If a player shows at 75% on this they still have a long way to go. To be likely, they need to be above 90%. Above 85% is a good sign.

Mariano, Edgar, and Halladay are looking great so far. Halladay being the wild card as there has been a lot of debate as to whether he’ll get in on the first try and whether his death would have an impact. Looks like the answer is going to be yes.

Mussina is also tracking very nicely though he still has a way to go. Bonds and Clemens look like they may receive a small bump as they seem to get most every year. Schilling’s quieter year may be giving him a small improvement too.

Walker is an interesting case as he has this year and next. He definitely looks like he is going to get a big bump setting him up for a good shot at 2020.

On the lower side of the ballot, Pettitte may be lucky to remain on the ballot. Oswalt looks like he will not be as lucky.

Then there is Wagner. He’s picked up a couple of votes but what is strange to me is he will almost certainly remain on the ballot while Oswalt won’t. Not that either are HOFers to me, I find it a little silly that Wagner’s career is considered better than Oswalt’s by the BBWAA. Of course, most of you know of my disdain for relievers value in general, so I’m biased.

At any rate, I’ll go out on a limb and predict we will see 4 inductees (I’m going to be optimistic about Moose): Halladay, Edgar, Rivera, and Mussina.

Patsfan · 01-04-2019, 07:57 PM

So without looking up any stats or knowing any WAR's here are the players I think should be in highlighted in red:

Lance Berkman
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Roy Halladay
Todd Helton
Andruw Jones
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mike Mussina
Roy Oswalt
Andy Pettitte
Manny Ramirez
Mariano Rivera
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Sammy Sosa
Omar Vizquel
Billy Wagner
Larry Walker
Michael Young

awz50 · 01-04-2019, 07:58 PM

Pulling for Moose and Martinez this year

Both need to be in. Martinez is long overdue

speedyjg13 · 01-04-2019, 08:01 PM

Bonds
Clemens
Rivera

Those should be the only 3 to get in. Let's not water it down more with the names of McGriff

gmarutiak · 01-04-2019, 08:13 PM

The Halladay numbers are surprising to me.

REGGIE206 · 01-04-2019, 08:44 PM

I think only Mariano Rivera & Edgar Martinez will get in. Just my gut feeling.

Skipscards · 01-04-2019, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patsfan

So without looking up any stats or knowing any WAR's here are the players I think should be in highlighted in red:

Lance Berkman
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Roy Halladay
Todd Helton
Andruw Jones
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mike Mussina
Roy Oswalt
Andy Pettitte
Manny Ramirez
Mariano Rivera
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Sammy Sosa
Omar Vizquel
Billy Wagner
Larry Walker
Michael Young

Interesting list. I don’t understand why Schilling but not Moose. Or why some cheaters (Manny) but not others (Sosa). But hey, it’s your list.

Skipscards · 01-04-2019, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awz50

Pulling for Moose and Martinez this year

Both need to be in. Martinez is long overdue

I agree. I wasn’t previously big on Edgar but I’ve come around on him.

Hollywood42 · 01-04-2019, 09:50 PM

It's too bad Halladay isn't here for his induction. I think his untimely death guaranteed his election this year, but I do think he would have gotten in eventually regardless. He was one of the elite pitchers growing up when I was really getting into baseball that was just really fun to watch

Skipscards · 01-04-2019, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedyjg13

Bonds
Clemens
Rivera

Those should be the only 3 to get in. Let's not water it down more with the names of McGriff

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

The Halladay numbers are surprising to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by REGGIE206

I think only Mariano Rivera & Edgar Martinez will get in. Just my gut feeling.

Shadowsonic2004 · 01-04-2019, 10:22 PM

Andruw Jones

I'll settle for this one.

discostu · 01-04-2019, 10:57 PM

As embarrassing as the Baines inclusion, Mariano at 100% would be appalling.

oski1820 · 01-04-2019, 11:14 PM

I agree that those four will be inducted this year. I think it is insane that a guy like Fred McGriff is going to miss the hall while Omar Vizquel is receiving more votes than him

rwperu34 · 01-05-2019, 03:58 AM

Mussina is a little behind pace. He's gained 14 votes and needs to gain 49 with a little over 1/3 of the votes in.

I predict Edgar, Mo, and Doc this year with Mussina setting himself up as a lock for next year.

The biggest surprise for me is Larry Walker. He was at 34% last year, 173 votes short with two years to go. He's tracking to gain 90+ in 2019 which would put him in good position to make it next year on his final ballot.

VeedonFleece · 01-05-2019, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Then there is Wagner. He’s picked up a couple of votes but what is strange to me is he will almost certainly remain on the ballot while Oswalt won’t. Not that either are HOFers to me, I find it a little silly that Wagner’s career is considered better than Oswalt’s by the BBWAA. Of course, most of you know of my disdain for relievers value in general, so I’m biased.

At any rate, I’ll go out on a limb and predict we will see 4 inductees (I’m going to be optimistic about Moose): Halladay, Edgar, Rivera, and Mussina.

I tend to share your disdain for relievers in general, especially the 7th-setup-closer format that bullpens have been mostly used this century. Hopefully the Andrew Miller/Josh Hader-type RP usage will become more commonplace.

That said, I've always been a Wagner fan. I don't think it's fair to compare him to Oswalt. Of course Oswalt was more valuable but, whether we like them or not, relievers should be compared only against each other. Now, I was against Hoffman getting in, so I'm certainly not arguing that Wagner belongs, but the disparity in voting between those two baffles me. Jay Jaffe's JAWS metric has them rated as merely the 20th & 21st best RP of all time, with Wagner edging it slightly, which essentially says they were equally as Hall-worthy (or not,) especially since their careers coincided. He's the all-time leader in K-rate, whichever way you measure it, and has the 2nd best WHIP (Mariano 3rd) of all time too - only ill-fated deadball era Addie Joss is lower. He's certainly not one of the best ten candidates but, if I had a vote, I might consider using a spot simply to help keep him on the ballot.

fitefanSHO · 01-05-2019, 12:43 PM

Until Bonds and Clemens are in, the HOF lacks credibility.

It's like the WWE Hall of Fame:

A joke based on bias and favoritism.

mfw13 · 01-05-2019, 01:33 PM

Bonds
Clemens
Halladay

Those would be the only three on my ballot.

Mariano doesn't get my vote because I believe that pitchers should have a minimum of 2000 IP to be eligible (i.e. the equivalent of ten full seasons as a starter).

Edgar doesn't get my vote because I believe that defense is an important part of the game and that anybody who had more than 50% of his PA as a DH should not be in the HOF.

marl1220 · 01-05-2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfw13

Bonds
Clemens
Halladay

Those would be the only three on my ballot.

Mariano doesn't get my vote because I believe that pitchers should have a minimum of 2000 IP to be eligible (i.e. the equivalent of ten full seasons as a starter).

Edgar doesn't get my vote because I believe that defense is an important part of the game and that anybody who had more than 50% of his PA as a DH should not be in the HOF.

MLB recognizes RP and DH as "legitimate" positions on an MLB team. Whether we do or not doesn't really matter in the big picture.

chezball · 01-05-2019, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitefanSHO

Until Bonds and Clemens are in, the HOF lacks credibility.

It's like the WWE Hall of Fame:

A joke based on bias and favoritism.

It already lacks credibility, more so if they let those two ped users in.

Topcat79 · 01-05-2019, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezball

It already lacks credibility, more so if they let those two ped users in.

Agree completely.

corndog · 01-05-2019, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezball

It already lacks credibility, more so if they let those two ped users in.

This^^^

All. Day. Long.

speedyjg13 · 01-05-2019, 02:01 PM

Can someone explain why all the love for Fred McGriff to go into the HOF? The only way he should be let in is by paying general admission tickets like the rest of us.

REGGIE206 · 01-05-2019, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedyjg13

Can someone explain why all the love for Fred McGriff to go into the HOF? The only way he should be let in is by paying general admission tickets like the rest of us.

I agree. Along with Harold Baines, I don’t even remember putting their cards in penny sleeves.

chezball · 01-05-2019, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedyjg13

Can someone explain why all the love for Fred McGriff to go into the HOF? The only way he should be let in is by paying general admission tickets like the rest of us.

Think it's b/c he's seven HR's short of 500.

green4407 · 01-05-2019, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedyjg13

Can someone explain why all the love for Fred McGriff to go into the HOF? The only way he should be let in is by paying general admission tickets like the rest of us.

I'm not quite sure how McGriff isn't already in the HOF.

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01-04-2019, 07:48 PM	#1
Skipscards Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: In Tribute To The Great Ryno Posts: 30,393 jlankf2 jmp4	2019 Hall of Fame Discussion We are just a couple of weeks away from the big announcement but wanted to throw this here to talk about this year’s voting and upcoming class. For those unaware, here’s the link to this year’s voting tracker: 2019 HOF Tracker Now, don’t get too excited. Really it’s still early in the tracking but there are a few interesting results so far. If a player shows at 75% on this they still have a long way to go. To be likely, they need to be above 90%. Above 85% is a good sign. Mariano, Edgar, and Halladay are looking great so far. Halladay being the wild card as there has been a lot of debate as to whether he’ll get in on the first try and whether his death would have an impact. Looks like the answer is going to be yes. Mussina is also tracking very nicely though he still has a way to go. Bonds and Clemens look like they may receive a small bump as they seem to get most every year. Schilling’s quieter year may be giving him a small improvement too. Walker is an interesting case as he has this year and next. He definitely looks like he is going to get a big bump setting him up for a good shot at 2020. On the lower side of the ballot, Pettitte may be lucky to remain on the ballot. Oswalt looks like he will not be as lucky. Then there is Wagner. He’s picked up a couple of votes but what is strange to me is he will almost certainly remain on the ballot while Oswalt won’t. Not that either are HOFers to me, I find it a little silly that Wagner’s career is considered better than Oswalt’s by the BBWAA. Of course, most of you know of my disdain for relievers value in general, so I’m biased. At any rate, I’ll go out on a limb and predict we will see 4 inductees (I’m going to be optimistic about Moose): Halladay, Edgar, Rivera, and Mussina. __________________ Go Royals!! #RoyalsIn2015 <---It Happened!! #TEAMZinck Sometimes it is astounding that we are able to persist in a world so full of morons.

01-04-2019, 07:57 PM	#2
Patsfan Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 1,953	So without looking up any stats or knowing any WAR's here are the players I think should be in highlighted in red: Lance Berkman Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Roy Halladay Todd Helton Andruw Jones Jeff Kent Edgar Martinez Fred McGriff Mike Mussina Roy Oswalt Andy Pettitte Manny Ramirez Mariano Rivera Scott Rolen Curt Schilling Gary Sheffield Sammy Sosa Omar Vizquel Billy Wagner Larry Walker Michael Young __________________ GO REDS!!! Collecting Joey Votto auto's and low numbered licensed cards Also collect cool Dayton Flyers basketball memorabilia.

01-04-2019, 07:58 PM	#3
awz50 Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: New Hampshire>>>Arizona>>>>Florida Posts: 33,518 awz50	Pulling for Moose and Martinez this year Both need to be in. Martinez is long overdue __________________ Collecting Baseball Hof Autographs 249/352 Blowouts Official Red Sox face of the franchise Eduardo Rodriguez Super Collector

01-04-2019, 08:44 PM	#6
REGGIE206 Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Mukilteo, WA (hometown: Vallejo, CA) Posts: 9,852	I think only Mariano Rivera & Edgar Martinez will get in. Just my gut feeling. __________________ INSTAGRAM: my_card_collection 📸

01-04-2019, 09:50 PM	#9
Hollywood42 Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Minnesota Posts: 39,795 Hollywood42	It's too bad Halladay isn't here for his induction. I think his untimely death guaranteed his election this year, but I do think he would have gotten in eventually regardless. He was one of the elite pitchers growing up when I was really getting into baseball that was just really fun to watch __________________ Collecting the Twins All my PC wants/haves available at hollywood42cards.com

01-04-2019, 08:01 PM	#4
speedyjg13 Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 17,278	Bonds Clemens Rivera Those should be the only 3 to get in. Let's not water it down more with the names of McGriff

01-04-2019, 08:13 PM	#5
gmarutiak Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Baltimore, MD (but Pittsburgh in my heart!) Posts: 3,147	The Halladay numbers are surprising to me.

01-04-2019, 10:22 PM	#11
Shadowsonic2004 Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 3,599 Shadowsonic2004	Andruw Jones I'll settle for this one.

01-04-2019, 10:57 PM	#12
discostu Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 7,990	As embarrassing as the Baines inclusion, Mariano at 100% would be appalling. __________________ Every day I start to ooze.

01-04-2019, 11:14 PM	#13
oski1820 Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Willow Grove, Pennsylvania Posts: 259 Micolsz57 Oski1820	I agree that those four will be inducted this year. I think it is insane that a guy like Fred McGriff is going to miss the hall while Omar Vizquel is receiving more votes than him

01-05-2019, 03:58 AM	#14
rwperu34 Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 8,603	Mussina is a little behind pace. He's gained 14 votes and needs to gain 49 with a little over 1/3 of the votes in. I predict Edgar, Mo, and Doc this year with Mussina setting himself up as a lock for next year. The biggest surprise for me is Larry Walker. He was at 34% last year, 173 votes short with two years to go. He's tracking to gain 90+ in 2019 which would put him in good position to make it next year on his final ballot. __________________ Me: Did I win? Gixen: Yes. You won. Now you're broke.

01-05-2019, 12:43 PM	#16
fitefanSHO Banned Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 826	Until Bonds and Clemens are in, the HOF lacks credibility. It's like the WWE Hall of Fame: A joke based on bias and favoritism.

01-05-2019, 01:33 PM	#17
mfw13 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 18,092	Bonds Clemens Halladay Those would be the only three on my ballot. Mariano doesn't get my vote because I believe that pitchers should have a minimum of 2000 IP to be eligible (i.e. the equivalent of ten full seasons as a starter). Edgar doesn't get my vote because I believe that defense is an important part of the game and that anybody who had more than 50% of his PA as a DH should not be in the HOF.

01-05-2019, 02:01 PM	#22
speedyjg13 Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 17,278	Can someone explain why all the love for Fred McGriff to go into the HOF? The only way he should be let in is by paying general admission tickets like the rest of us.