Grover Cleveland Autographed Photo found!

garpike · 12-07-2010, 02:34 PM

I run an ebay consignment buisness, and in a case of stuff that an older gentleman brought me was this photo:

It seems to be a younger Grover Cleveland in the photo.

I called the Cincinnati Historical Society and found out alot of information about the Photographer. Come to find out he was a very prominant photgrapher back in the middle 1800s in Cincinnati. Took all kinds of photos of all kinds of famous and non famous people. The historical society had photos that had this same backing but did not have a copy of this picture of a young Grover Cleveland, who became our 22nd and 24th President!! The time period that Landy was doing photography coincides with the younger years of Grover Cleveland!!

What an AMAZING Presidential find!

ManInTheMirror · 12-07-2010, 02:43 PM

That is very awesome! Gosh I'm sure I'm not the only one here wondering what that might be worth!

John91C · 12-07-2010, 02:51 PM

wow...awesome find! Will you be getting it authenticated? I wonder who the best person is the authenticate presidential signatures from that time period...I do know that even back then they had secretarial autos...not saying yours is because I have no idea on a signature like that!

Bengals4life · 12-07-2010, 02:58 PM

Take that to Pawn Stars LOL

garpike · 12-07-2010, 03:00 PM

I have no clue wether to pay the $ to authenicate it or not. With all the junk I am hearing about the latest adventures with authenticators I am not sure it would be worth it.

The hard part is that all the signatures I can find online for him are very slightly different, but those all have been Presidential signatures, not from his pre presidential days. In know my signature has changed slightly over the years. I wonder if his did?

Zerokruel · 12-07-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garpike

I have no clue wether to pay the $ to authenicate it or not. With all the junk I am hearing about the latest adventures with authenticators I am not sure it would be worth it.

The hard part is that all the signatures I can find online for him are very slightly different, but those all have been Presidential signatures, not from his pre presidential days. In know my signature has changed slightly over the years. I wonder if his did?

I also do heavy volume of consignment sells on the internet. I would pass on this piece if it was offered to me. That is just my opinion though.

garpike · 12-07-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerokruel

I also do heavy volume of consignment sells on the internet. I would pass on this piece if it was offered to me. That is just my opinion though.

Pass on selling it or pass on getting it authenticated?

VinnyH · 12-07-2010, 03:32 PM

Don't let it go until you can get the best opinions you can on it. Do as much research as you can.
Personally I'd think if it was a preprint (which they did even back then) the ink in the signature would be the same as the rest of the back. It appears darker. The big question is did he sign it or someone else did it for him.

Best of Luck,
VinnyH

garpike · 12-07-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyH

Don't let it go until you can get the best opinions you can on it. Do as much research as you can.
Personally I'd think if it was a preprint (which they did even back then) the ink in the signature would be the same as the rest of the back. It appears darker. The big question is did he sign it or someone else did it for him.

Best of Luck,
VinnyH

Yeah I have been doing alot of research all day today,I just got a response back from the Curator of Prints and Photographs at the Cincinnati Museum Center. Here is her response:

Thanks for sending the scans. I don’t know what to think. I found an early photo of Cleveland and it didn’t look anything like this one. In all the photos of Cleveland his mustache goes down at the corners and in yours it goes up and the hair looks curlier in yours. The signatures look similar though. I can’t find any reference that ever puts him in Cincinnati. The 1880 Democratic Convention was held in Cincinnati. He wasn’t nominated until 1884 but he could have come to the convention. He isn’t listed in Landy’s book of celebrities. Landy was at that address from 1868-1895. Sorry I can’t be of more help.

Linda Bailey
Curator of Prints and Photographs
Cincinnati Museum Center
1301 Western Avenue
Cincinnati, Ohio 45203

So it looks like he COULD have been in Cincinnati for the Convention in 1880, but by that time I would think he would look older than this photo, closer to the presidential photos we see of him.

dthimesch · 12-07-2010, 03:57 PM

This is totally awesome!! Keep us updated with information as you find stuff out about it. I will be curious to see what you uncover!

Zerokruel · 12-07-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garpike

Pass on selling it or pass on getting it authenticated?

I would pass on selling it, unless the potential client wanted to pay the fees for getting in authenticated. I think this piece has a potential price tag of $375-500 to the right person - if it is legit. However, I'm on the fence about the authenticity - and I would never sell anything like this without an good COA/LOA.

VinnyH · 12-07-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerokruel

I would pass on selling it, unless the potential client wanted to pay the fees for getting in authenticated. I think this piece has a potential price tag of $375-500 to the right person - if it is legit. However, I'm on the fence about the authenticity - and I would never sell anything like this without an good COA/LOA.

Looking at other samples of his signature, this one has a classic "r" at the end of Grover. All his presidential signatures seem to tail off at the end of Grover with not much of an "r" at all. I don't see him getting better penmanship as he aged. Usually it's the other way around.

Still have my fingers crossed for you,
VinnyH

fitch123 · 12-07-2010, 04:38 PM

I seriously would buy this thing just to get onto Pawn Stars and I'm not joking, I am a huge fan of the show...lmk

garpike · 12-07-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitch123

I seriously would buy this thing just to get onto Pawn Stars and I'm not joking, I am a huge fan of the show...lmk

LOL!! I wish I lived closer, I would take it there in a moment!

Does anyone have a recomendation to a legit Authenticating Service that could handle this item?

garpike · 12-07-2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyH

Looking at other samples of his signature, this one has a classic "r" at the end of Grover. All his presidential signatures seem to tail off at the end of Grover with not much of an "r" at all. I don't see him getting better penmanship as he aged. Usually it's the other way around.

Still have my fingers crossed for you,
VinnyH

Yeah I agree with what you are saying, I have been ALL OVER the net today trying to find a signature that is closer to mine with no luck.

Zerokruel · 12-07-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garpike

LOL!! I wish I lived closer, I would take it there in a moment!

Does anyone have a recomendation to a legit Authenticating Service that could handle this item?

I would go with either PSA/DNA or JSA. Ask for a LOA with a picture of the item. You don't want them putting their lovely little sticker directly on this.

garpike · 12-07-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerokruel

I would go with either PSA/DNA or JSA. Ask for a LOA with a picture of the item. You don't want them putting their lovely little sticker directly on this.

holy crapola!! $75.00 to get this looked at....and I could get a Letter saying it isn't real!

iluvfish2 · 12-07-2010, 05:04 PM

yeah but with PSA, its what 5-10 bucks to get the early look?

Zerokruel · 12-07-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garpike

holy crapola!! $75.00 to get this looked at....and I could get a Letter saying it isn't real!

Exactly. That is why, I would not be willing to cover the fee's for authentication if I took this item on. If I'm taking around 30-35% - It won't be worth it when it's all said and done, even if it is real.

So, to be really honest - I would turn this piece down unless your client is willing to get it authenticated (with them covering the cost).

bboi30 · 12-07-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengals4life

Take that to Pawn Stars LOL

No joke I was thinking the same thing. They may pay the fees for you to go to take it to them. Love that dam show.

garpike · 12-07-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iluvfish2

yeah but with PSA, its what 5-10 bucks to get the early look?

Only thing I found on PSA was $75.00 service as well.

enjoyale81 · 12-07-2010, 09:54 PM

That's an awesome card! PM Wheeler about it, he might be able to help you out. He has a ridiculous collection of historical autos.

John91C · 12-07-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerokruel

Exactly. That is why, I would not be willing to cover the fee's for authentication if I took this item on. If I'm taking around 30-35% - It won't be worth it when it's all said and done, even if it is real.

So, to be really honest - I would turn this piece down unless your client is willing to get it authenticated (with them covering the cost).

If it's real...we're talking probably closer 1K for this...just the rarity of the actual photo and then having an authentic bold autograph...people pay silly money for things like this! If it's real...

mharm2k6 · 12-07-2010, 11:05 PM

You could always list it on ebay with some obscenely high BIN price with super high res images & then submit it to PSA for the $15 fee. They give a quick opinion & if they think it's legitimate on first glance, and you choose to submit it for full authentication (either encapsulation or LOA) I believe you can get a $15 credit off the fee.

dthimesch · 12-07-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garpike

LOL!! I wish I lived closer, I would take it there in a moment!

Does anyone have a recomendation to a legit Authenticating Service that could handle this item?

I am going in February, I'll take there!!

12-07-2010, 02:34 PM	#1
garpike Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 7,373 garpike28	Grover Cleveland Autographed Photo found! I run an ebay consignment buisness, and in a case of stuff that an older gentleman brought me was this photo: It seems to be a younger Grover Cleveland in the photo. I called the Cincinnati Historical Society and found out alot of information about the Photographer. Come to find out he was a very prominant photgrapher back in the middle 1800s in Cincinnati. Took all kinds of photos of all kinds of famous and non famous people. The historical society had photos that had this same backing but did not have a copy of this picture of a young Grover Cleveland, who became our 22nd and 24th President!! The time period that Landy was doing photography coincides with the younger years of Grover Cleveland!! What an AMAZING Presidential find! __________________ I Love Family, The NY Jets & Batman Autographs! LOOKING FOR 2010 TOPPS MAGIC CHROME TONY PIKE AUTOGRAPH

12-07-2010, 02:51 PM	#3
John91C Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Deep in the Heart of TEXAS! Posts: 5,657 joyoo	wow...awesome find! Will you be getting it authenticated? I wonder who the best person is the authenticate presidential signatures from that time period...I do know that even back then they had secretarial autos...not saying yours is because I have no idea on a signature like that! __________________ Photobucket (not always up to date): http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t199/John91C/

12-07-2010, 03:00 PM	#5
garpike Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Middletown, Ohio Posts: 7,373 garpike28	I have no clue wether to pay the $ to authenicate it or not. With all the junk I am hearing about the latest adventures with authenticators I am not sure it would be worth it. The hard part is that all the signatures I can find online for him are very slightly different, but those all have been Presidential signatures, not from his pre presidential days. In know my signature has changed slightly over the years. I wonder if his did? __________________ I Love Family, The NY Jets & Batman Autographs! LOOKING FOR 2010 TOPPS MAGIC CHROME TONY PIKE AUTOGRAPH

12-07-2010, 03:32 PM	#8
VinnyH Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Westchester, NY Posts: 10,282 vjweb VinnyH	IMHO... Don't let it go until you can get the best opinions you can on it. Do as much research as you can. Personally I'd think if it was a preprint (which they did even back then) the ink in the signature would be the same as the rest of the back. It appears darker. The big question is did he sign it or someone else did it for him. Best of Luck, VinnyH __________________ I admit, I like collectibles for the action. Buying, selling, prospecting, gambling, etc., are parts of the fun. I will say that being older than many here I just can’t justify sticker autos. Give me a nice on-card auto and I feel that little connection to the signer.

12-07-2010, 03:57 PM	#10
dthimesch Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 32,799	This is totally awesome!! Keep us updated with information as you find stuff out about it. I will be curious to see what you uncover! __________________ @dt_sportscards YouTube

12-07-2010, 02:43 PM	#2
ManInTheMirror Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 39,667	That is very awesome! Gosh I'm sure I'm not the only one here wondering what that might be worth!

12-07-2010, 02:58 PM	#4
Bengals4life Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,853	Take that to Pawn Stars LOL

12-07-2010, 04:38 PM	#13
fitch123 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 7,507 fitch123 fitch123	I seriously would buy this thing just to get onto Pawn Stars and I'm not joking, I am a huge fan of the show...lmk __________________

12-07-2010, 05:04 PM	#18
iluvfish2 Moderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lansing, Michigan Posts: 26,685 iluvfish2 iluvfish2	yeah but with PSA, its what 5-10 bucks to get the early look? __________________ Blowouts Resident Wade Boggs Super Collector

12-07-2010, 09:54 PM	#22
enjoyale81 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sellersburg, IN Posts: 1,522 trmptmood1 enjoyale81	That's an awesome card! PM Wheeler about it, he might be able to help you out. He has a ridiculous collection of historical autos.

12-07-2010, 11:05 PM	#24
mharm2k6 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 387	You could always list it on ebay with some obscenely high BIN price with super high res images & then submit it to PSA for the $15 fee. They give a quick opinion & if they think it's legitimate on first glance, and you choose to submit it for full authentication (either encapsulation or LOA) I believe you can get a $15 credit off the fee.