Sketchy things going on during Layton Sports Cards Basketball Breaks???

[bowlinbob]

CollectiblesFourMySons: Fraud or Mistake?


Heard about this last night and I just find it hard to believe that a guy using a name he always uses in chat accepts a trade and when a huge card gets hit logs in as a name he has never used and says he was hacked and never traded the Sixers.. Thoughts???

[XARZY]

That's crazy. I think it's traders remorse if indeed guy is a regular participant

[jkl165116]

I thought so too after reading it but seems like some reputable people are defending him so now who knows??

[IronMonkey415]

That is a tough, I buy into their break almost every weekend and I know if Rich makes a mistake he would refund right away and even let the people keep the cards.

This Orin guy is up to no good.

[weatherwarrior]

I know that Rich changed the trade policy to avoid this kinda stuff in the future. I was in that break that night with the raptors. Now for a trade to happen the two owners must email LSC and confirm zip codes and the email must come from the originating order email.

Hopefully something like this doesn't happen again but he runs a stand up business and I have ordered a ton from them. It's just unfortunate that someone got burned in this transaction and I feel bad for the blogger.

[crimedawg47]

The story just doesn't seem logical to me...dude goofed on the trade and didn't want to own up to it.

[KidKards101]

Damn that sucks what happened to tell whether someone imposing as Orin W is really him or some other person... As others have said in that blog page, OW in the House aka Orin W is a regular participant at platinum breaks and is there every night. He buys into a lot of the breaks and spends crazy money nightly! He also offers 4-5 teams and sometimes one of his pulled cards for the T-Wolves in Flawless. I really don't know what to make of this all..

If there is a way to somehow match the IP address of the Orin W user name to OW in the House somehow, that can potentially determine their identity. Other than that, I don't think there is legit proof...

[WE_GOT_THAT_TOO]

I don't know anything about the breakers, but one thing stands out to me. If you ask what teams you have and when provided the teams you correct someone by stating the teams you do have...why ask the question?!

What do I have?

A, B and C

No, no I don't. I have A, B and D!



What's the point of the question?

[RYBOWSKI97]

this is why its best to break in groups with friends with everyone present or at a lcs. i dont trust any of it

[bowlinbob]

People vouching for someone means nothing to me.. Seen so many people do things the right way for a long time then suddenly go rogue.. How do we know Orin hasn't been taking a beating and finally decided enough is enough it's time for me to cash in..

[jifengjeff]

Originally Posted by bowlinbob

People vouching for someone means nothing to me.. Seen so many people do things the right way for a long time then suddenly go rogue.. How do we know Orin hasn't been taking a beating and finally decided enough is enough it's time for me to cash in..

Hahaha well said man

[smalltown]

Something isn't right. And even if it was someone causing trouble - Layton handled it wrong. Of course you're going to be upset. If the other party was indeed "screwed" he's going to be upset too. It's on Rich and Layton sport to come to some kind of settlement as they acknowledge and accepted the trade. It's unfortunate everyone got so emotional over all this.

[ldsports]

Rich is a great guy and is one of the top most reputable breakers in the business. He was presented with a crap situation and did what he thought was best. He also refunded the guy and gave him a free box to try and make up. Some people just want to keep the issue going. In a hobby with a lot of warts, its a shame this is happening to one of the clean ones. It also was not a monster card we are talking about here. It was a few hundred dollars

[bowlinbob]

Originally Posted by ldsports

Rich is a great guy and is one of the top most reputable breakers in the business. He was presented with a crap situation and did what he thought was best. He also refunded the guy and gave him a free box to try and make up. Some people just want to keep the issue going. In a hobby with a lot of warts, its a shame this is happening to one of the clean ones. It also was not a monster card we are talking about here. It was a few hundred dollars

I don't know Rich and how he does business but it's funny that this isn't the first I have heard complaints about him.. I recall hearing about shady things occurring during a repack product of his.. No clue what happened I just remember hearing his name. I agree that he was put in a bad spot here but he should have sold all the hits between the two teams and split the profits 50/50..

[WE_GOT_THAT_TOO]

This right here would be a start to say the least. It sounds like he just took the word of the more active member which from a business prospect is the right decision based on a knee jerk reaction, but reputation is more important. I wouldn't break with this person after hearing this. Why put myself in a situation to get screwed. If he accepted the trade that's it. Why would someone hack the other persons account to make a trade? Just don't make sense.

Originally Posted by bowlinbob

I don't know Rich and how he does business but it's funny that this isn't the first I have heard complaints about him.. I recall hearing about shady things occurring during a repack product of his.. No clue what happened I just remember hearing his name. I agree that he was put in a bad spot here but he should have sold all the hits between the two teams and split the profits 50/50..

[ZappaFan]

I read your blog. But what I'm really hung up on is why oh why trade the Sixers for the Pistons? If I had the Sixers I wouldn't have traded them. There's only one reason you would trade the Sixers here.

Next what I don't get is the person who "traded" the Sixers for the Pistons logs into the live chat *IMMEDIATELY AFTER* the case break has concluded, is that right? Then they ask what team they had in the break. Everyone tells them the Pistons and they're like "no, I had the Sixers". Well then, why are you asking if you already know? Maybe you saw all the hits the Sixers had in the case break and reneged? If the Pistons had gotten hits up the anus I wonder if they would've still had the Sixers then too, knowwhatimean *Ernest voice*. I feel bad for the blogger.

[Real RocknRolla]

I don't get why anybody would trade the Sixers for the Pistons, either. And I'm not familiar with any of the individuals who purchased the spots in the break, but things do sound sketchy if everything in the blog post is accurate.

At the end of the day, if Layton acknowledged the trade and accepted that teams were swapped between users, then that's how it should've stayed. There should've been no going back by Layton, and especially after the cards were opened!

If in Layton's opinion, something shady happened by somebody trading a team that they weren't really in possession of, the trade shouldn't have been overturned after/during the break; Layton should've compensated "Orin" in some additional way after the break, if Layton believes they allowed an "Orin" imposter to trade away the 76ers.

[BigZigBoom]

I have been watching Rich's breaks for a couple months. Seems like a stand up guy. I have never seen anything shady go on. With that said, I did not see the break the night that the fake trade happened.

[Orangejello727]

Im a bit confused here. What Im reading is there are 2 usernames here..

"OW in the house" & Orin W correct?

I don't know which one is real but it sounds like from ordeal that "OW in the house" is the authentic one. Its been stated that he is a regular and buys a ton of spots in multiple rooms?

My concern here is if "OW in the house" is the authentic name and is very well known and a consistent participant in numerous rooms and breaks, wouldn't the breaker know this and expect only to confirm with that username and no other? I use Orangejello727 just about everywhere. But if some user name "OJ" showed up and started making posts or confirming trades, I would fully expect the breaker or anyone for that matter to suspect "OJ" not being "Orangejello727"... especially when everyone knows I go by "Orangejello727"

If thats the case, then this issue falls on the breaker for not recognizing the correct username making the trade.

[bowlinbob]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Im a bit confused here. What Im reading is there are 2 usernames here..

"OW in the house" & Orin W correct?

I don't know which one is real but it sounds like from ordeal that "OW in the house" is the authentic one. Its been stated that he is a regular and buys a ton of spots in multiple rooms?

My concern here is if "OW in the house" is the authentic name and is very well known and a consistent participant in numerous rooms and breaks, wouldn't the breaker know this and expect only to confirm with that username and no other? I use Orangejello727 just about everywhere. But if some user name "OJ" showed up and started making posts or confirming trades, I would fully expect the breaker or anyone for that matter to suspect "OJ" not being "Orangejello727"... especially when everyone knows I go by "Orangejello727"

If thats the case, then this issue falls on the breaker for not recognizing the correct username making the trade.

This is actually a good question.. The person this happened to (ziggysbreaks) also breaks a lot so I asked him what name Orin used previously.. I'll let you know the response..

[bowlinbob]

Originally Posted by BigZigBoom

I have been watching Rich's breaks for a couple months. Seems like a stand up guy. I have never seen anything shady go on. With that said, I did not see the break the night that the fake trade happened.

I don't think Rich was "In on it" by any means.. He refunded the guy and gave him all Pistons hits and a box of Gala.. I do think Rich only made the knee jerk reaction because he didn't want to lose Orin's money instead of investigating the matter fully.. I do think Orin scumbagged the blog poster though..

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by WE_GOT_THAT_TOO

I don't know anything about the breakers, but one thing stands out to me. If you ask what teams you have and when provided the teams you correct someone by stating the teams you do have...why ask the question?!

What do I have?

A, B and C

No, no I don't. I have A, B and D!



What's the point of the question?

exactly. this is shady as it gets. and it does seem that the breaker just went with the word of the more active customer...the Orin guy absolutely made the trade...then he absolutely came up with some garbage story to try to get out of trade...

[jbarnett83]

Originally Posted by bowlinbob

I don't think Rich was "In on it" by any means.. He refunded the guy and gave him all Pistons hits and a box of Gala.. I do think Rich only made the knee jerk reaction because he didn't want to lose Orin's money instead of investigating the matter fully.. I do think Orin scumbagged the blog poster though..

Agreed with this^^ Rich should have let the blogger keep his 76ers hits and then decide whether or not to refund shady Orin...bad mistake on the breakers part but should be held accountable.

(*if the bloggers story is true)

[LSC]

Just so everyone is aware we have done nothing but try to cooperate with both sides of this for almost a week now to come to a resolution. The "blogger" has become unreasonable and inconsolable. They have called us names and attempted to drag our name and Orin's name through the mud on a social media tirade. The situation was a horrible one to say the least. In over 4 years of business we have never had this big of a problem with something like this. We have no reason to believe that Orin would have made a fake name to make the trade only to back out of it after the break. We could not prove one way or the other. The trade seemed fishy in the first place. If it were me, Rich Layton, breaking I would have caught it. Pistons for Sixers in an Immaculate Case & Flawless Box Mixer would have seemed very odd to me and I would have asked about it. However my 20 year old nephew Brad was breaking on this evening and he was simply going by what he thought was a trade made by "Orin W".

We had no choice but to negate the trade. There was foul play involved on some level and we had no concrete evidence to prove that it was or was not Orin himself other than the fact that is usual user name that he used in the chat was not "Orin W." The pistons original owner, "the blogger", got multiple hits in the break, plus a full refund of over $160 plus a free box of 15-16 Gala NBA. The sixers owner got their card which included a @$400 dual auto of kat/okafor from immaculate and I believe an Iverson auto.

What I do not understand is how people think that LSC was up to something. Why would we do this? What do we have to gain from this? The "blogger" was actually a very good customer of ours and spent alot of money with us which we went to great lengths to make them happy up until this one particular day apparently. Orin did not spend even close to as much money with us as did the "blogger". We had never met Orin or even spoken to him before this day the "trade" took place. We can prove all of this 100% to the letter. It is sad that we should even have to. The only people who have ever questioned our integrity ar ethose with the intent on taking us out or ruining our business. No one with a legitamite gripe has ever come to us with an issue and left without it being resolved or with us at least trying our best to make them happy. We have also tried on many many levels and instances to reach out to this "blogger" to come to a resolution EVEN BEYOND what we have already done for them in order to get them to stop trying to defame our name, but to no avail. On a side note, every single person that has had negative things to say about us pretaining to this or anything else has been welcomed to reach out to us to talk about it. We have not been contacted once from any of them. The only people we have been in contact with about this are the two parties involved.

I stand by our decision to do what we thought was right. If someone logged in under your name unknowingly and made a trade without your permission, what would you do? Just take it? Oh well I guess thats what happens? No. You would reach out to us and explain what you thought was foul play and expect us to negate the trade or try to come to some sort of resolution. Which is exactly what we did. We have since changed our policies to prevent this from ever happening again. We always used a sort of honor system when making trades but that has now been ruined. We have pleased thousands of customers over our time in business. We have always prided ourselves on being 100% honest with everyone and always willing to go above and beyond for our customers whenever they have an issue. Almost to a fault. This issue has been exhausting on myself and my family. We have spent so much time, energy and emotion dealing with this only to have people jump to conclusions without even seeing the facts. We will continue to bring nothing but the best in online breaks and customer service to the industry. We have nothing but love for everyone in our hobby.

Thanks
Rich Layton

[nickha2]

Originally Posted by LSC

Just so everyone is aware we have done nothing but try to cooperate with both sides of this for almost a week now to come to a resolution. The "blogger" has become unreasonable and inconsolable. They have called us names and attempted to drag our name and Orin's name through the mud on a social media tirade. The situation was a horrible one to say the least. In over 4 years of business we have never had this big of a problem with something like this. We have no reason to believe that Orin would have made a fake name to make the trade only to back out of it after the break. We could not prove one way or the other. The trade seemed fishy in the first place. If it were me, Rich Layton, breaking I would have caught it. Pistons for Sixers in an Immaculate Case & Flawless Box Mixer would have seemed very odd to me and I would have asked about it. However my 20 year old nephew Brad was breaking on this evening and he was simply going by what he thought was a trade made by "Orin W".

We had no choice but to negate the trade. There was foul play involved on some level and we had no concrete evidence to prove that it was or was not Orin himself other than the fact that is usual user name that he used in the chat was not "Orin W." The pistons original owner, "the blogger", got multiple hits in the break, plus a full refund of over $160 plus a free box of 15-16 Gala NBA. The sixers owner got their card which included a @$400 dual auto of kat/okafor from immaculate and I believe an Iverson auto.

What I do not understand is how people think that LSC was up to something. Why would we do this? What do we have to gain from this? The "blogger" was actually a very good customer of ours and spent alot of money with us which we went to great lengths to make them happy up until this one particular day apparently. Orin did not spend even close to as much money with us as did the "blogger". We had never met Orin or even spoken to him before this day the "trade" took place. We can prove all of this 100% to the letter. It is sad that we should even have to. The only people who have ever questioned our integrity ar ethose with the intent on taking us out or ruining our business. No one with a legitamite gripe has ever come to us with an issue and left without it being resolved or with us at least trying our best to make them happy. We have also tried on many many levels and instances to reach out to this "blogger" to come to a resolution EVEN BEYOND what we have already done for them in order to get them to stop trying to defame our name, but to no avail. On a side note, every single person that has had negative things to say about us pretaining to this or anything else has been welcomed to reach out to us to talk about it. We have not been contacted once from any of them. The only people we have been in contact with about this are the two parties involved.

I stand by our decision to do what we thought was right. If someone logged in under your name unknowingly and made a trade without your permission, what would you do? Just take it? Oh well I guess thats what happens? No. You would reach out to us and explain what you thought was foul play and expect us to negate the trade or try to come to some sort of resolution. Which is exactly what we did. We have since changed our policies to prevent this from ever happening again. We always used a sort of honor system when making trades but that has now been ruined. We have pleased thousands of customers over our time in business. We have always prided ourselves on being 100% honest with everyone and always willing to go above and beyond for our customers whenever they have an issue. Almost to a fault. This issue has been exhausting on myself and my family. We have spent so much time, energy and emotion dealing with this only to have people jump to conclusions without even seeing the facts. We will continue to bring nothing but the best in online breaks and customer service to the industry. We have nothing but love for everyone in our hobby.

Thanks
Rich Layton

Not a group breaker but I feel how you handled the situation was correct. The trade from the start seemed off which would be the main reason i would negate the switch of teams.

What you gave to the Pistons was about equal to what the KAT/Okafor dual would go for. That is without knowing what hits the pistons got. $160 refund + hits + gala box was more than generous.

No matter what you did to resolve the issue one party was going to be upset for not getting the dual. However I would say you evened it out pretty well.