✹The PERENNIAL Shohei Ohtani Thread✹

[rms13]

Originally Posted by punctilious

I’m looking forward to some post-season magnificence.

Wondering if we'll get some post season pitching moments. That is what the Dodgers will need to win the WS. Roberts has made it sound like he could pitch in the post season but I doubt he's stretched out enough to pitch a lot of innings. Maybe they use him to close out some games. Having him on the mound to get the final out of the WS would be the perfect end to the season

[chilly55]

Originally Posted by Ra3

This assumes that these guys who consistently find ways to try to minimize shohei’s achievements and/or criticize his play are making arguments in good faith, and are capable of being satisfied by the things he does on and off a baseball diamond. Or by who he is and what he might represent. I strongly suspect their motivations and resentments stem from other things…could be POMO, could be FOMO, could be they’re old fogeys, or could be other things.

Or, these things are based on facts. The only issue I see with Shohei's accomplishment is the stolen bases. It's a fact that it is easier to steal a base. With only 2 disengagements allowed per base runner, pitch clock, and the fact that the distance is 4.5 inches shorter (yes, that does make a difference), 50 stolen bases this year is not as impressive as 50 stolen bases pre-rules change. You can sit there and argue it makes no difference, but it does. The runners now have a clear advantage over the pitcher/catcher. The players haven't gotten faster, it's just gotten easier.

If the league brought in all fences by 10 ft, home runs would increase. If someone broke 73 HR's, very easy to argue, it's easier to hit home runs and therefore the record isn't as impressive. We all see how MLB players do much better in Japan, wonder why?

Shohei fans ignore these differences because, well, they are Shohei fans. In 2018 when Shohei played with the Angels, Angel scouts timed him with the ability to cover 28.2 ft per second. Trout in 2018 was timed at 29.2 ft per second. So Shohei was just a foot slower than Trout. Shohei was also within the top 25 percent of the fastest runners in the league. He was ranked in the 77th percentile in 2018 and as high as the 90th percentile in 2021. Today, in 2024, based on a CBS sports article from Sept.19th., he is now just in the 73rd percentile, so his rank is lower than it was in 2018.

So he is slower, but his numbers are way up. Wait, did I say that right. The rules changes have made it easier to steal. 50 stolen bases today is not as impressive as it was just 3 years ago. We aren't Shohei haters, we just know that it's not as impressive because the league made it easier to steal. Had he done this in 2022, you would not hear the argument that it's easier to steal bases. Post 2023, if someone steals 131 bases in a single season, it will not be as impressive as Rickey's record.

Shohei is the first to do 50/50, that's not up for debate. What is, is that if there were no rules changes, his line most likely have been 50/30 or maybe 50/40. Great player and easy HOF'er in the future.

[ThoseBackPages]

if stealing bases is so easy now, why have only 5 men excliped 40 SBs?

the season is over 150 games old now, so you mean to tell me that these professional athletes cant manage to steal one measly bag once every four games?

i thought it was easier to steal bases with the new rules?

[Trueblue]

I don't think the problem is Shohei fans, here at least. Everyone is just happy he hit 50/50. Nobody is claiming he's punked a-rod, canseco, or Rickey.

The problem is people coming in and minimizing his achievements in an unprovoked manner. Pure vitriol and bitterness. The game is constantly changing and it's being rewritten. It's called time.

[Hollywood42]

All of this. And I'll add that it's really annoying anytime someone says something positive about Ohtani, they're "pumping". Guys, Shohei is the best player you've ever seen play baseball. He has a global following that none of us can even fathom. He doesn't need some rando on Blowout to prop up his market. Appreciate greatness while it's right there in front of you

Originally Posted by Trueblue

I don't think the problem is Shohei fans, here at least. Everyone is just happy he hit 50/50. Nobody is claiming he's punked a-rod, canseco, or Rickey.

The problem is people coming in and minimizing his achievements in an unprovoked manner. Pure vitriol and bitterness. The game is constantly changing and it's being rewritten. It's called time.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

if stealing bases is so easy now, why have only 5 men excliped 40 SBs?

the season is over 150 games old now, so you mean to tell me that these professional athletes cant manage to steal one measly bag once every four games?

i thought it was easier to steal bases with the new rules?

Exactly, why doesn't everyone do it? Picking up a free base usually makes it easier to score, and thus win ball games...Hmmm, perhaps it's just not that easy?

Ohtani is stealing all these bases because he is still relatively quick and he knows WHEN to steal, which is pretty important when it comes to determining overall success. He's not getting thrown out much, is he?

[Trueblue]

Nothing new, but it is pretty telling that since thread inception in 2019 (and in the old thread), we only get droves of non-visitors in this thread on three occasions:

1) To express their joy when Shohei gets hurt.
2) To elevate somebody else to minimize Shohei when Shohei does something amazing.
3) To express admiration for his achievements.

The Blowout split is about 40/40/20 in that respective order.

[Geoff G]

Originally Posted by mma138

even panini ?

Rising tide bro .. and I hope so because I just bought a pajama card I’ve been watching for a year .. fomo got me lolol ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

Nothing new, but it is pretty telling that since thread inception in 2019 (and in the old thread), we only get droves of non-visitors in this thread on three occasions:

1) To express their joy when Shohei gets hurt.
2) To elevate somebody else to minimize Shohei when Shohei does something amazing.
3) To express admiration for his achievements.

The Blowout split is about 40/40/20 in that respective order.

i agree

[chilly55]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Exactly, why doesn't everyone do it? Picking up a free base usually makes it easier to score, and thus win ball games...Hmmm, perhaps it's just not that easy?

Ohtani is stealing all these bases because he is still relatively quick and he knows WHEN to steal, which is pretty important when it comes to determining overall success. He's not getting thrown out much, is he?

Everyone is. There are more than 1,000 more stolen bases this year versus 2 years ago league wide. 3,455 as of 9/20/24, 3,500 in 2023 versus 2,487 in 2022. Somebody is stealing more bases

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by chilly55

Everyone is. There are more than 1,000 more stolen bases this year versus 2 years ago league wide. 3,455 as of 9/20/24, 3,500 in 2023 versus 2,487 in 2022. Somebody is stealing more bases

what about from the players that count? why arent they all over 40?

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by chilly55

Everyone is. There are more than 1,000 more stolen bases this year versus 2 years ago league wide. 3,455 as of 9/20/24, 3,500 in 2023 versus 2,487 in 2022. Somebody is stealing more bases

We shall call you #2 from now on

[ThoseBackPages]

Lindor only has 27, why is he not over 40?

SBs are up and easier now, right?

[PFF100]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Lindor only has 27, why is he not over 40?

SBs are up and easier now, right?

He must be just lazy


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[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by PFF100

He must be just lazy


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Or sleazy.

[ThoseBackPages]

where did Mr Sleazy wind up going? haha

[Ra3]

Originally Posted by chilly55

Or, these things are based on facts. The only issue I see with Shohei's accomplishment is the stolen bases. It's a fact that it is easier to steal a base. With only 2 disengagements allowed per base runner, pitch clock, and the fact that the distance is 4.5 inches shorter (yes, that does make a difference), 50 stolen bases this year is not as impressive as 50 stolen bases pre-rules change. You can sit there and argue it makes no difference, but it does. The runners now have a clear advantage over the pitcher/catcher. The players haven't gotten faster, it's just gotten easier.

If the league brought in all fences by 10 ft, home runs would increase. If someone broke 73 HR's, very easy to argue, it's easier to hit home runs and therefore the record isn't as impressive. We all see how MLB players do much better in Japan, wonder why?

Shohei fans ignore these differences because, well, they are Shohei fans. In 2018 when Shohei played with the Angels, Angel scouts timed him with the ability to cover 28.2 ft per second. Trout in 2018 was timed at 29.2 ft per second. So Shohei was just a foot slower than Trout. Shohei was also within the top 25 percent of the fastest runners in the league. He was ranked in the 77th percentile in 2018 and as high as the 90th percentile in 2021. Today, in 2024, based on a CBS sports article from Sept.19th., he is now just in the 73rd percentile, so his rank is lower than it was in 2018.

So he is slower, but his numbers are way up. Wait, did I say that right. The rules changes have made it easier to steal. 50 stolen bases today is not as impressive as it was just 3 years ago. We aren't Shohei haters, we just know that it's not as impressive because the league made it easier to steal. Had he done this in 2022, you would not hear the argument that it's easier to steal bases. Post 2023, if someone steals 131 bases in a single season, it will not be as impressive as Rickey's record.

Shohei is the first to do 50/50, that's not up for debate. What is, is that if there were no rules changes, his line most likely have been 50/30 or maybe 50/40. Great player and easy HOF'er in the future.

I’ve got no big disagreement with this, except maybe to argue that looking at his foot speed as the main driver of his ability to steal more or fewer bases this year is perhaps somewhat compensated for by what seems to be some advantages gleaned about pitchers’ tendencies since he himself is a pitcher. Maybe that, and what appears to be his study of the game has helped him over the years? Plus he’s not pitching this season?

I do agree that stealing bases is easier this year based on the rule changes (but still not easy!) and that a nominal total of 50 (or as it seems to be turning out, 50+) sb’s in 2024 might be somewhat fewer in 2019, all other factors held equal.

Im more disappointed with the posters who pretty predictably come in here to minimize his quality as one of the best players we have seen and also his potential standing amongst the game’s all-timers. They normally sound pretty petty, a little angry, and driven by something based on ohtani’s perceived persona, or the fact that he’s not a yankee or blue jay or ranger, or he’s not pitching this year (“he’s cheating to get 50-50! It shouldn’t count!”) or something else.

Or maybe it’s me reading into it and these posters are objectively looking at everything he’s doing and really appreciating him as a baseball player. But somehow I doubt it. I can pretty much predict the nature of the post by looking at who made it when it comes to certain members of the forum. Not a surprise I understand people have their ingrained biases and opinions…but just disappointing when a player like this guy comes around.

[Ra3]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

Nothing new, but it is pretty telling that since thread inception in 2019 (and in the old thread), we only get droves of non-visitors in this thread on three occasions:

1) To express their joy when Shohei gets hurt.
2) To elevate somebody else to minimize Shohei when Shohei does something amazing.
3) To express admiration for his achievements.

The Blowout split is about 40/40/20 in that respective order.

I agree with this too. I just think what drives the first 2 is kinda ugly and sad.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

Nothing new, but it is pretty telling that since thread inception in 2019 (and in the old thread), we only get droves of non-visitors in this thread on three occasions:

1) To express their joy when Shohei gets hurt.
2) To elevate somebody else to minimize Shohei when Shohei does something amazing.
3) To express admiration for his achievements.

The Blowout split is about 40/40/20 in that respective order.

Don't forget how excited some people were here earlier this year when they were praying he was part of the gambling scandal.

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by Chris P

Don't forget how excited some people were here earlier this year when they were praying he was part of the gambling scandal.

I thought about that after but was comfortable rolling it into #1. There was so much hope for vindication from Blowout POMO collectors.

[Dhtcardmania]

This argument doesn't merit discussion. The reason why it's a lot more difficult to steal bases the past 20 or so years as opposed to the old dog days of summer when Rickey Henderson was breaking records is simple:

"The league has seen another trend over the past decade plus — a steady climb in average four-seam fastball velocity from 91.9 mph in 2008 to 94.2 in 2023. Hard hurlers like Edwin Diaz, Félix Bautista and Jhoan Duran, who averaged over 100 mph on his fastball last year, punctuate this upswing."

Pitchers within the past 20 or less are bigger, taller and stronger and they throw the ball much harder by around 3-5 mph faster than pitchers 25+ years ago when Rickey Henderson was playing. Hence the ball gets to home plate much faster, which enables the catcher to throw the ball to first base much faster. Get it? So that's why it's much harder to steal bases in the modern era. The rule changes help to negate this and encourage the base runners to even the playing field.

You are comparing different eras of baseball which makes absolutely no sense. There's no way Rickey Henderson could steal as much bases had he been playing baseball against the current crop of pitchers throwing baseball today.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by chilly55

Everyone is. There are more than 1,000 more stolen bases this year versus 2 years ago league wide. 3,455 as of 9/20/24, 3,500 in 2023 versus 2,487 in 2022. Somebody is stealing more bases

Well duh, people steal in spots. Your selective use of statistics is telling.

But why aren't many individuals getting 40+ steals in a season?

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

what about from the players that count? why arent they all over 40?

He's got nothing for that.

[Trueblue]

SB #53

I guess he avoided a double play opp, eesh.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

SB #53

I guess he avoided a double play opp, eesh.

Psssh, 53, that's nothing. My overweight self would probably have 75 by now in the season, it's so easy, its just sleazy.