2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Rman? Anything to say?

There's some things I disagree with, or you're saying are larger points than I think they are. If you really do want a response, I can put one together later tonight, or tomorrow. I was in too good of a mood today to argue politics.. Lol.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Atlanta police chief is stepping down. WHITE cop shoots BLACK man running from the scene of a crime. More to the story than that but should be interesting. Hopefully no looting and just peaceful protests.

They burned the Wendy’s apparently.

No Whataburgers for GA now.

[natbornkiller]

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by rman112

There's some things I disagree with, or you're saying are larger points than I think they are. If you really do want a response, I can put one together later tonight, or tomorrow. I was in too good of a mood today to argue politics.. Lol.

No worries, I just didn't know if you had seen it.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

They burned the Wendy’s apparently.

No Whataburgers for GA now.

Whataburger is like any other fast food place. Crappy food anyways. Wendy’s is racist anyways.

[Jazzer540]

Originally Posted by free2131

Quotes from a few religious texts:

Organized religion (and by that, I mean EVERY religion that preaches what the two above have) is a net negative for the world and our history would have been a lot less bloody if it never existed. People who think they are fighting for a God don't think they need to question what they do (and in fact, in these two religions, questioning "the will of God" is a sin).

So yeah, people have and will continue to be evil to one another without the influence of religion, but more people have died or been killed in the name of God than anything else in history.

Yes, history has been full of people fighting and killing for people, however, that is the extremist religious people who when they kill under the umbrella of religion...is it really "for the religion itself" or the perception of the radicalists that think they need to do that for religion.

The crusaders who were killing "for Christianity"... Did God say go kill people and convert them to Christianity? Does the church now think they need to kill to convert? No. It was the selfish and wicked act of individuals who thought they were doing it for Christianity, but it was their desire, not the desire of the religion.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

The "trade war" with China has been haphazard and inconsistent with much of the financial burden falling on the average American consumer (or in the case of farmers, required much more in the way of government subsidies to keep them afloat).

The tax cuts from a few years back have only (and will continue to make worse) exploded the deficit, while allowing the average American to see a higher take-home pay on their monthly check only to be offset by the taxes they owe at the end of the year, or for their net tax benefit to be substantially smaller than what was advertised. Meanwhile, the larger business entities were given a huge tax cut which was supposed to incentivize the return of jobs to America, but largely resulted in stock buybacks and obscene compensation bonuses to the executive members. This
will continue to increase the deficit to nearly unmanageable proportions in the coming years.

Attempted budget cuts/and executed cuts to social programs (healthcare, community support programs/education/disease response and prevention) and support systems which have not resulted in substantial budget/deficit savings because of the slanted tax cuts mentioned above, and superfluous defense spending. Conservatives are supposed to be about fiscal responsibility, and I don't see that here.

Further, what happened to all that infrastructure spending to address critically unsafe roads/bridges and inefficiencies that he touted during his 2016 campaign? That would have actually been a worthwhile endeavor!

The continual and factually baseless undermining of the free press, our intelligence agencies, and the state and local governments because they disagree with Trump. When lies are being told by those entities, they need to be called on it, but what this administration has done is make accusations without credible evidence. This hurts everyone. The baseless attacks on the voting process also stains the entire Democratic process. The promotion of conspiracy theories with little to no factual basis undermines the credibility of the country diplomatically, functionally, and symbolically here at home and all over the world. It also further erodes the supporting fabric of the Constitution.

The too little/too late response to coronavirus shouldn't need explanation. Trump spent months dismissing the issue, only to have it blow up in our faces and result in the United States being the global epicenter for virus infections and result in 116K deaths to date. His refusal to mainstream and prioritize the need for greater personal protective equipment availability and reliable testing protocols put the US way behind the response curve. His travel ban from China was a positive, but it was mismanaged as temperature checks and better health screening should have been required of all American citizens returning from China or surrounding areas. Then despite his administration's poor coronavirus response and misguided advice, he claimed no responsibility and only sought to highlight his ratings during the press briefings and childishly blame his predecessor for everything wrong in America.

The lack of a coherent coronavirus response and prevention plan thus led to the implementation of Draconian societal closures (yes, mostly by Democratic governors who were forced to react and went too far in some cases), economic disruption, and business shutdowns which have made stocks even more volatile, completely gutted our ability to have any semblance of a healthy GDP for this fiscal year, caused unemployment to skyrocket, and has created economic uncertainty for the foreseeable future. Some of these issues were unavoidable, but some could have been mitigated with a more competent response.

The last point of suffering that Trump has callously contributed to is the one of race, equality, and respect for human rights. The forceful clearing of protestors for an awkward, pandering photo-op, the comments for police to use extreme force, domination, and shooting to deal with the justified hurt and anger displayed by people exercising their Constitutional rights sets a terrible precedent. Now, the rioters and people harming police and property need to be dealt with forcefully, but what I observed time and time again over the last few weeks was mistreatment and abuse of people who were protesting without damage or destruction.

Bonus: I didn't even have to address the Emolument issues, Russia, Obstruction, Ukraine, etc, even though some of those issues are legitimate.

There is so much more, but I grow weary of typing, and it won't make a difference anyway.

Ok.

First off, it's hard to argue against 'the majority of the country is needlessly suffering' with anything concrete. It's an assumption.

Even if that were to be true (but again, 'the majority' is a HUGE number of people), I would point to covid as the biggest reason why. Move on covid later.

The deficit is something I definitely disagree with. Debt is the boogeyman. It's always been a huge number, and it rarely matters.

'The continual and factually baseless undermining of the free press, our intelligence agencies, and the state and local governments because they disagree with Trump. When lies are being told by those entities, they need to be called on it, but what this administration has done is make accusations without credible evidence.' .. The problem is that the people you're talking about HAVE been shown to be full of it. Covid has just continued to hammer that home. Influences and agendas are everywhere, and the press, our intelligence agencies, and state/local governments are not impervious. And if Trump says something that we know at the time is BS, or later turns out to be BS, it doesn't cause ~200 million people to suffer.

I actually think Trump's original covid response of 'it's not the serious' was the best. But he ended up caving to the 'experts', who we now know were largely useless. It's months into this thing, and no one can really tell you what's up.

You can't pin deaths and economy on Trump. It's either one, or the other. And no matter what Trump says, he's not an autonomous ruler. He could've went strong with 'we're staying open', and all the governors could've shot him down anyway.

'The last point of suffering that Trump has callously contributed to is the one of race, equality, and respect for human rights. The forceful clearing of protestors for an awkward, pandering photo-op, the comments for police to use extreme force, domination, and shooting to deal with the justified hurt and anger displayed by people exercising their Constitutional rights sets a terrible precedent. Now, the rioters and people harming police and property need to be dealt with forcefully, but what I observed time and time again over the last few weeks was mistreatment and abuse of people who were protesting without damage or destruction.'

A dumb photo-op is a dumb photo-op. Cuomo didn't cause the majority of the country to suffer because of his, and neither did Trump. They're just actions to mock and call out for being ridiculous. Cops actually shooting people with live bullets (you'd have to assume the 'live bullets' part) was uncalled for. At the time, I didn't think rubber bullets were. I still don't. Too many dead, and far too much destruction. And it was in large part because the cops weren't doing anything. Looters, destroyers of buildings.. they weren't scared of the cops. So it's not like Trump made cops shoot protestors. There were instances where cops went too far, but do you really think Trump has the power to control local precincts, and the cops themselves? In other words, do you think if Trump's original message were more peaceful, then we could've had a unified, 50-state police corps of 800,000, that would've kept it all peaceful? Police brutality and abuse of power didn't start a few weeks ago.

[Jazzer540]

Originally Posted by jk1937

i literally just heard them say on cnn " they didn't have to give him a sobriety test, they could have helped him get home" what the actual f$%^?

he was asleep in the drive thru. failed the sobriety test. fought with police and took their taser. ran. shot the taser at them and then got shot.

they just lost me on this one

I'm trying to find a country where I can do what I want, when I want and not have consequences.

I grew up thinking if I resist arrest, anything can happen and it would be my fault... Don't play with fire, etc. Apparently I had a wrong upbringing.... So do what you want, say what you want, hit cops with bricks, shoot at them, and if they shoot back...your still good.

Not saying anyone's life should ever be taken as the first step, but as a white person, even I know...don't resist arrest, don't do anything to escalate a situation because you don't know what the outcome will be....man, I need to change my thinking now.

[jk1937]

exactly. its just insane.

Originally Posted by Jazzer540

I'm trying to find a country where I can do what I want, when I want and not have consequences.

I grew up thinking if I resist arrest, anything can happen and it would be my fault... Don't play with fire, etc. Apparently I had a wrong upbringing.... So do what you want, say what you want, hit cops with bricks, shoot at them, and if they shoot back...your still good.

Not saying anyone's life should ever be taken as the first step, but as a white person, even I know...don't resist arrest, don't do anything to escalate a situation because you don't know what the outcome will be....man, I need to change my thinking now.

[Jazzer540]

I wish normal sane people would actually see how many people get shot and or killed and or etc etc.... never makes news, but sure defund the police because I’m sure stories like this was because of bad cops...

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2...in-miami-dade/

Or this...

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2...n-south-beach/

Or this....
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/lo...-one-man-dead/

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by trixstar

These are the FBI stats from 2018 which were released November 2019.

Of the 1,617 victims of anti-religious hate crimes:

56.9 percent were victims of crimes motivated by offenders’ anti-Jewish bias.
14.6 percent were victims of anti-Islamic (Muslim) bias.
4.3 percent were victims of anti-Sikh bias.
3.9 percent were victims of anti-Catholic bias.
3.2 percent were victims of bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
2.7 percent were victims of anti-Other Christian bias.
2.4 percent were victims of anti-Protestant bias.
2.0 percent were victims of anti-Eastern Orthodox (Russian, Greek, Other) bias.
0.9 percent (14 individuals) were victims of anti-Hindu bias.
0.7 percent (11 individuals) were victims of anti-Mormon bias.
0.7 percent (11 individuals) were victims of anti-Buddhist bias.
0.6 percent (9 individuals) were victims of anti-Jehovah’s Witness bias.
0.5 percent (8 individuals) were victims of anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
6.7 percent were victims of bias against other religions (anti-other religion).

That’s true but I meant at a government level like what is going on in the Middle East. You can argue systemic racism but it’s not like that with religion. Just cause there’s a few nutcases in America does not mean religion overall is something evil. If 80% of America identify as religious and ONLY 1k crimes happened. That percentage is minimal. That doesn’t even count the fact that most those crimes could be done by atheists who hate that group of people not because of conflicting religion. It also doesn't account for the fact that a certain offender could've had repeated accounts which I'm sure some of these criminals have repeated accounts. If you think the correlation is that religion itself justifies religious crimes, what justifies race crimes? Or is it that the mind of these criminals are ####ed up and it's not literally that their skin color or religion is telling them to cause these crimes? No church services is telling people to cause hate crimes. What people who identify with the church does not mean they are acting in accordance with the church. This may have been an argument back during the crusades but not anymore.

[Jazzer540]

Wow, never knew there was a resource for this...

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by jk1937

i literally just heard them say on cnn " they didn't have to give him a sobriety test, they could have helped him get home" what the actual f$%^?

he was asleep in the drive thru. failed the sobriety test. fought with police and took their taser. ran. shot the taser at them and then got shot.

they just lost me on this one

So he is driving under the influence, fights police, takes a tazer, tries to shoot one of them with it, and gets shot. I guess officer are supposed to let them shoot them with the tazer, hope they don’t steal their gun and use it on them. Mayor is calling for the officer to be fired....

[Jazzer540]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

So he is driving under the influence, fights police, takes a tazer, tries to shoot one of them with it, and gets shot. I guess officer are supposed to let them shoot them with the tazer, hope they don’t steal their gun and use it on them. Mayor is calling for the officer to be fired....

Most headlines are saying cop kills “unarmed” black man

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

So he is driving under the influence, fights police, takes a tazer, tries to shoot one of them with it, and gets shot. I guess officer are supposed to let them shoot them with the tazer, hope they don’t steal their gun and use it on them. Mayor is calling for the officer to be fired....

This is just out of control. Cops cant do anything right at this point. I guess they are just supposed to stand there and try to calm the man dow

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

This is just out of control. Cops cant do anything right at this point. I guess they are just supposed to stand there and try to calm the man dow

Or they could have just let him run away instead of shooting him.

[Chris Lyle]

Just watched the surveillance video and im really sorry to say this guy was just asking for trouble.

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Or they could have just let him run away instead of shooting him.

Seriously??

[Chris Lyle]

And setting the Wendy's on fire where this happened and other cars on fire is going to fix what???

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

Seriously??

Ok. Shoot him it is! He deserved it!

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Ok. Shoot him it is! He deserved it!

He fought with them took there taser and shot it at the police and was running from them? Serious question what should they have done?

[free2131]

Originally Posted by Jazzer540

Did God say go kill people and convert them to Christianity?

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Yes. Yes He did.

No, most Christians now do not advocate violently overthrowing non-Christian nations and murdering their citizens. They did in the past, though.

[trixstar]

Peak f'n idiot right here

https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/...5-533d8d7d1a0a

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by trixstar

Peak f'n idiot right here

https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/...5-533d8d7d1a0a

Stupid stuff right there

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

He fought with them took there taser and shot it at the police and was running from them? Serious question what should they have done?

Shoot him dead. He was running away man. What else should an officer do to a suspect fleeing the scene?

You either let him run away and regroup, impound his car, and go arrest him later, or just shoot him dead as he runs away.