2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by RedSoxFan28

0/45 3rd party candidates have won an election. It’s the same odds of an alien invasion currently. Everyone is “possible” but if you have any difference of opinion between the two other candidates you aren’t voting 3rd party. If that doesn’t clarify why a 3rd party will never garner votes nothing will. This has went back to the late 1700s. History tells us about the future.

[LoveRookies]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Curious if you read the op-ed, or just posted the title, which Flynn did not write or say in the op-ed?

https://www.westernjournal.com/exclu...god-stands-us/

Must've been another Michael Flynn

[free2131]

Originally Posted by BGT Masters

Take away religion and you think all of that just goes away?

Originally Posted by Jazzer540

So has selfishness, arrogance, and just not caring about anyone other than yourself. Religion is not “usually evil” it is when those traits creep into people who embed themselves within that religion. That said, take religion out, they are still like that- so inherently, it’s not religion.. it’s the bad characteristics in people regardless of religion IMO

Quotes from a few religious texts:

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Prophet! Rouse the believers to wage war. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will subdue two hundred: if a hundred, they will subdue a thousand of the disbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.

— Quran, [Quran 8:65]

“And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.” — Quran, [Quran 9:5]

“Kill them [unbelievers] wherever you find them… And fight them until there is no more unbelief and worship is for Allah alone” (Quran 2:191-193).

“Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties; in exchange for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they slay and are slain” (Quran 9:111)

“The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah” (Sahih Muslim 1:33)

Organized religion (and by that, I mean EVERY religion that preaches what the two above have) is a net negative for the world and our history would have been a lot less bloody if it never existed. People who think they are fighting for a God don't think they need to question what they do (and in fact, in these two religions, questioning "the will of God" is a sin).

So yeah, people have and will continue to be evil to one another without the influence of religion, but more people have died or been killed in the name of God than anything else in history.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by LoveRookies

https://www.westernjournal.com/exclu...god-stands-us/

Must've been another Michael Flynn

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I think it's a pretty good op-ed, and I still don't see the quote in the piece, perhaps you can point it out.

[LoveRookies]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I think it's a pretty good op-ed, and I still don't see the quote in the piece, perhaps you can point it out.

You're correct, the title of the op-ed does not appear verbatim in the op-ed. Still not sure how you came to the conclusion that Gen. Flynn didn't have a say in the title. I've never written an op-ed, nor do I ever plan on doing so, but it seems weird that one would write one and not have some say in the title. But I guess it is possible.

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by free2131

I'm an atheist, and I think that spirituality is good. I think that if a belief in something higher than yourself makes you happy and content, it is good, and I think that people who turn to religious beliefs in order to help them through addiction or trauma is good. At the individual level, religion is just something that can help people or give them hope.

Religion as an institution throughout history, however, has done nothing but hold people down, enforce strict authoritarian controls over society, and been the justification for countless wars, death, and holding back of civil liberties and human rights.

Christianity, the European Nations and the rule of law are the pillars of Western Civilization.

It’s interesting to see all of them under attack. People take civilization for granted, but it is not the normal state of humanity.

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by free2131

Quotes from a few religious texts:



















Organized religion (and by that, I mean EVERY religion that preaches what the two above have) is a net negative for the world and our history would have been a lot less bloody if it never existed. People who think they are fighting for a God don't think they need to question what they do (and in fact, in these two religions, questioning "the will of God" is a sin).

So yeah, people have and will continue to be evil to one another without the influence of religion, but more people have died or been killed in the name of God than anything else in history.

This argument has been debunked over and over so I am surprised people still use it. Look at the slaughter of people at the hands of Lenin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. The blood on the hands of the non-religious is much greater than that of the religious.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by LoveRookies

You're correct, the title of the op-ed does not appear verbatim in the op-ed. Still not sure how you came to the conclusion that Gen. Flynn didn't have a say in the title. I've never written an op-ed, nor do I ever plan on doing so, but it seems weird that one would write one and not have some say in the title. But I guess it is possible.

Titles are always possession of the paper/site; and they're written for clicks.

[free2131]

Originally Posted by tpeichel34

This argument has been debunked over and over so I am surprised people still use it. Look at the slaughter of people at the hands of Lenin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. The blood on the hands of the non-religious is much greater than that of the religious.

Hitler’s involvement with the Church:

a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

d) As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgment of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

g) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin. It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday. The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.” (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

h) Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home. Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings: “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.” –Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda “Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.” -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism

If you wanted to argue that Hitler only wanted to use the Church as a way to help control the populace, I can buy that. The fact that he was able to use religion in that way AND that the Catholic Church went along with it justs makes my point.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by free2131

Quotes from a few religious texts:















Organized religion (and by that, I mean EVERY religion that preaches what the two above have) is a net negative for the world and our history would have been a lot less bloody if it never existed. People who think they are fighting for a God don't think they need to question what they do (and in fact, in these two religions, questioning "the will of God" is a sin).

So yeah, people have and will continue to be evil to one another without the influence of religion, but more people have died or been killed in the name of God than anything else in history.

Can you name situations in present day America where you are stoned, physically attacked or threatened in anyway because of religion? Yes there was a time like the crusades that religion was used to do horrible things but I’d say we’re a little more civilized in today’s time. History is important. Also is an understanding of progress

[jk1937]

orthodox jews in brooklyn get attacked for being jewish

Originally Posted by mike1498

Can you name situations in present day America where you are stoned, physically attacked or threatened in anyway because of religion? Yes there was a time like the crusades that religion was used to do horrible things but I’d say we’re a little more civilized in today’s time. History is important. Also is an understanding of progress

[free2131]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Can you name situations in present day America where you are stoned, physically attacked or threatened in anyway because of religion?

Stoned? No. Physically attacked and threatened... have you been paying attention since 2001?

Plus, how many homosexuals, Christians, Muslims, kids who want to go to school, etc are being killed, attacked, and discriminated against around the world. In America, it isn't as bad as in other areas, but it still happens. We just like to legislate morality here.

[RedSoxFan28]

Originally Posted by mike1498

0/45 3rd party candidates have won an election. It’s the same odds of an alien invasion currently. Everyone is “possible” but if you have any difference of opinion between the two other candidates you aren’t voting 3rd party. If that doesn’t clarify why a 3rd party will never garner votes nothing will. This has went back to the late 1700s. History tells us about the future.

Thanks for proving the point

[trixstar]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Curious if you read the op-ed, or just posted the title, which Flynn did not write or say in the op-ed?

I read the op-ed. He sounds like a maniac.

Once again, tyranny and treachery are in our midst, and although we feel we’ve descended into a hellish state of existence, we must never forget, hell is conquerable.

The idea or notion of a heaven on Earth is the very real sense of being free. Freedom is oxygen. Like the air we breathe that keeps our lungs full and our hearts beating, the celestial feeling of freedom brings a sense of peace to our souls.

If someone was on the street saying these things I would call the police and advise them a deranged person is walking around town saying these things and someone should probably check on him.

[trixstar]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Can you name situations in present day America where you are stoned, physically attacked or threatened in anyway because of religion? Yes there was a time like the crusades that religion was used to do horrible things but I’d say we’re a little more civilized in today’s time. History is important. Also is an understanding of progress

These are the FBI stats from 2018 which were released November 2019.

Of the 1,617 victims of anti-religious hate crimes:

56.9 percent were victims of crimes motivated by offenders’ anti-Jewish bias.
14.6 percent were victims of anti-Islamic (Muslim) bias.
4.3 percent were victims of anti-Sikh bias.
3.9 percent were victims of anti-Catholic bias.
3.2 percent were victims of bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
2.7 percent were victims of anti-Other Christian bias.
2.4 percent were victims of anti-Protestant bias.
2.0 percent were victims of anti-Eastern Orthodox (Russian, Greek, Other) bias.
0.9 percent (14 individuals) were victims of anti-Hindu bias.
0.7 percent (11 individuals) were victims of anti-Mormon bias.
0.7 percent (11 individuals) were victims of anti-Buddhist bias.
0.6 percent (9 individuals) were victims of anti-Jehovah’s Witness bias.
0.5 percent (8 individuals) were victims of anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
6.7 percent were victims of bias against other religions (anti-other religion).

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by trixstar

I read the op-ed. He sounds like a maniac.





If someone was on the street saying these things I would call the police and advise them a deranged person is walking around town saying these things and someone should probably check on him.

I think this is a dead giveaway that you've never stepped foot inside a church.

[trixstar]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I think this is a dead giveaway that you've never stepped foot inside a church.

I went to church weekly for the first 18 years of my life and my fathers side of the family literally works in the church.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by trixstar

I went to church weekly for the first 18 years of my life and my fathers side of the family literally works in the church.

Don't worry, he will come back with another irrelevant response to your poignant one.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

The "trade war" with China has been haphazard and inconsistent with much of the financial burden falling on the average American consumer (or in the case of farmers, required much more in the way of government subsidies to keep them afloat).

The tax cuts from a few years back have only (and will continue to make worse) exploded the deficit, while allowing the average American to see a higher take-home pay on their monthly check only to be offset by the taxes they owe at the end of the year, or for their net tax benefit to be substantially smaller than what was advertised. Meanwhile, the larger business entities were given a huge tax cut which was supposed to incentivize the return of jobs to America, but largely resulted in stock buybacks and obscene compensation bonuses to the executive members. This
will continue to increase the deficit to nearly unmanageable proportions in the coming years.

Attempted budget cuts/and executed cuts to social programs (healthcare, community support programs/education/disease response and prevention) and support systems which have not resulted in substantial budget/deficit savings because of the slanted tax cuts mentioned above, and superfluous defense spending. Conservatives are supposed to be about fiscal responsibility, and I don't see that here.

Further, what happened to all that infrastructure spending to address critically unsafe roads/bridges and inefficiencies that he touted during his 2016 campaign? That would have actually been a worthwhile endeavor!

The continual and factually baseless undermining of the free press, our intelligence agencies, and the state and local governments because they disagree with Trump. When lies are being told by those entities, they need to be called on it, but what this administration has done is make accusations without credible evidence. This hurts everyone. The baseless attacks on the voting process also stains the entire Democratic process. The promotion of conspiracy theories with little to no factual basis undermines the credibility of the country diplomatically, functionally, and symbolically here at home and all over the world. It also further erodes the supporting fabric of the Constitution.

The too little/too late response to coronavirus shouldn't need explanation. Trump spent months dismissing the issue, only to have it blow up in our faces and result in the United States being the global epicenter for virus infections and result in 116K deaths to date. His refusal to mainstream and prioritize the need for greater personal protective equipment availability and reliable testing protocols put the US way behind the response curve. His travel ban from China was a positive, but it was mismanaged as temperature checks and better health screening should have been required of all American citizens returning from China or surrounding areas. Then despite his administration's poor coronavirus response and misguided advice, he claimed no responsibility and only sought to highlight his ratings during the press briefings and childishly blame his predecessor for everything wrong in America.

The lack of a coherent coronavirus response and prevention plan thus led to the implementation of Draconian societal closures (yes, mostly by Democratic governors who were forced to react and went too far in some cases), economic disruption, and business shutdowns which have made stocks even more volatile, completely gutted our ability to have any semblance of a healthy GDP for this fiscal year, caused unemployment to skyrocket, and has created economic uncertainty for the foreseeable future. Some of these issues were unavoidable, but some could have been mitigated with a more competent response.

The last point of suffering that Trump has callously contributed to is the one of race, equality, and respect for human rights. The forceful clearing of protestors for an awkward, pandering photo-op, the comments for police to use extreme force, domination, and shooting to deal with the justified hurt and anger displayed by people exercising their Constitutional rights sets a terrible precedent. Now, the rioters and people harming police and property need to be dealt with forcefully, but what I observed time and time again over the last few weeks was mistreatment and abuse of people who were protesting without damage or destruction.

Bonus: I didn't even have to address the Emolument issues, Russia, Obstruction, Ukraine, etc, even though some of those issues are legitimate.

There is so much more, but I grow weary of typing, and it won't make a difference anyway.

Rman? Anything to say?

[Siberian13]

Atlanta police chief is stepping down. WHITE cop shoots BLACK man running from the scene of a crime. More to the story than that but should be interesting. Hopefully no looting and just peaceful protests.

[JustinVerlander07]

Are we talking about COVID still?

Michigan's numbers have plunged down ironically since the day Whitmer announced re-openings for the entire state. It's definitely no coincidence since there would be no way for her to know that would happen. Either the numbers are wrong now or were previously, they are too drastically different.

[Pete Schweddy]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Atlanta police chief is stepping down. WHITE cop shoots BLACK man running from the scene of a crime. More to the story than that but should be interesting. Hopefully no looting and just peaceful protests.

How long till cops don't even try to apprehend a black man?

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Are we talking about COVID still?

Michigan's numbers have plunged down ironically since the day Whitmer announced re-openings for the entire state. It's definitely no coincidence since there would be no way for her to know that would happen. Either the numbers are wrong now or were previously, they are too drastically different.

Old news. We’ve moved on from COVID. More important things going on like celebrities being woke or acknowledging their white privilege and Starbucks getting back in the good graces of black lives matter. And of course Kyrie

[jk1937]

i literally just heard them say on cnn " they didn't have to give him a sobriety test, they could have helped him get home" what the actual f$%^?

he was asleep in the drive thru. failed the sobriety test. fought with police and took their taser. ran. shot the taser at them and then got shot.

they just lost me on this one

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Old news. We’ve moved on from COVID. More important things going on like celebrities being woke or acknowledging their white privilege and Starbucks getting back in the good graces of black lives matter. And of course Kyrie

Ohhhh. I missed the Kyrie talk.