QUESTONS for those who feel Tim Brady is the GOAT - Page 7

Stifle · 04-29-2016, 10:17 PM

M. Motley vs C. Dillon and the other 15 running backs, advantage : Otto Graham, Offensive Line - which team will have the Most HOFers - Advantage : Graham, what team was able to keep its stars from leaving the team, Advantage : Graham.
The BEST way to CRITIQUE if the Coach is responsible for the SUCCESS or the QB : How well did the pupils of the Coachs do when they received a opportunity = LANDRY & KNOLL & WALSH vs "Not worth mentioning" ! Graham had the ALL TIME GREATEST STAFF of Coaches EVER in the History of SPORTS while Bill B. Has been able to ride Brady !
Graham would have been CAPTAIN CLIPBOARD if Brady was his teammate !

Jameis1of1 · 04-29-2016, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stifle

M. Motley vs C. Dillon and the other 15 running backs, advantage : Otto Graham, Offensive Line - which team will have the Most HOFers - Advantage : Graham, what team was able to keep its stars from leaving the team, Advantage : Graham.
The BEST way to CRITIQUE if the Coach is responsible for the SUCCESS or the QB : How well did the pupils of the Coachs do when they received a opportunity = LANDRY & SHULA vs "Not worth mentioning" ! Graham had the ALL TIME GREATEST STAFF of Coaches EVER in the History of SPORTS while Bill B. Has been able to ride Brady !
Graham would have been CAPTAIN CLIPBOARD if Brady was his teammate !

Do you know the history at all? The Browns won four straight titles in the old AAFC with Otto and then moved into the NFL ... most predicted they would get killed in the "better" NFL ... and all Otto did was lead them to TEN STRAIGHT NFL Title games.

I like Brady and he and Montana is a great debate ... but Otto Graham easily tops them both, hands down!

blackbears86 · 04-30-2016, 10:00 AM

Jameis1of1: The only way your winning this vote is in your mind.

The voters of blowout have spoken............................Brady.

Let's just end this thread.........

twisty571 · 04-30-2016, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jameis1of1

Do you know the history at all? The Browns won four straight titles in the old AAFC with Otto and then moved into the NFL ... most predicted they would get killed in the "better" NFL ... and all Otto did was lead them to TEN STRAIGHT NFL Title games.

I like Brady and he and Montana is a great debate ... but Otto Graham easily tops them both, hands down!

As stated before they don't have to play but 1 playoff game. Next is since you want to keep bringing up those points maybe you should straighten out your comments. So riddle me this Batman. How the hell does he win 10 straight NFL titles when he wasn't in the NFL 10 years? The 4 years in the AAFC take away from the 10 years he played. The NFL net site doesn't cover the AAFL stats because he wasn't in the NFL! The NFL was around then. Did you happen to look at Otto's stats that have been posted? Otto was a 50% passer. His interception rating is a 5.1% with 2626 attempts and Brady a 1.5% with 7700+ attempts. I think it's easier to make it to a title game when there is 8 teams including the Browns and the only playoff game you play is to a team with a 5-5-2 record and only 2 other teams having a winning record. A little different than playing a 16 game season against 31 other teams and 3 rounds of playoffs and when you actually get to the Championship game normally your playing a 11-5 or 12-4 team to get to the SB. Next is they have won their division 12 of the 14 Brady has played in and been to the playoffs 13 of those 14 years oh & maybe we forgot to mention this but he is still playing! Graham won 4 titles in the AAFC & 3 in the NFL. I would have to say coaching and the rest of the team would have had to play a good part in those with Otto's passing numbers. Do you not think that if Otto had to pass more than 2600 times in his entire 10 year career his stats may have been a lot worse?

The funny thing is that people like you show up all the time wanting to throw up old players like this and their Championships. If that is the case 1/2 the league with their 1 SB can eat shorts because the Lions have 4 NFL Championships and they count to! Oh and they won as many NFL titles as the Browns in the same time Otto played. Bobby Layne GOAT!

jasonm2121 · 04-30-2016, 10:43 AM

Hello there, Brady is the best

RogerGodahell · 04-30-2016, 10:43 AM

He didn't lead them to 10 straight NFL title games either because he only played in the NFL for 6 years 1950-1955. In which he was 3-3 in championship games. That is still great but it was a completely different era not even remotely close to what it is today. That would be like comparing baseball from the late 1890's early 1900's to post dead ball and modern era.

Kingofkings1281 · 04-30-2016, 12:44 PM

18 people voted for Peyton Manning? Someone please justify that...

88horsepower · 04-30-2016, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingofkings1281

18 people voted for Peyton Manning? Someone please justify that...

Nobody should bother lest they like arguing with people who can never be convinced otherwise. And, no, I don't think he is the GOAT.

Jameis1of1 · 04-30-2016, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbears86

Jameis1of1: The only way your winning this vote is in your mind.

The voters of blowout have spoken............................Brady.

Let's just end this thread.........

Winning what vote? I voted for Jerry Rice and never expected him to receive the most votes. I expected Brady to win the vote ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by twisty571

As stated before they don't have to play but 1 playoff game. Next is since you want to keep bringing up those points maybe you should straighten out your comments. So riddle me this Batman. How the hell does he win 10 straight NFL titles when he wasn't in the NFL 10 years? The 4 years in the AAFC take away from the 10 years he played. The NFL net site doesn't cover the AAFL stats because he wasn't in the NFL! The NFL was around then.

Yup, I know that ... the NFL thought it was the major leagues and that when the Browns came in, they would get killed ... and yet Otto led them to straight title games ... he was a bad man!

Quote:

Did you happen to look at Otto's stats that have been posted? Otto was a 50% passer. His interception rating is a 5.1% with 2626 attempts and Brady a 1.5% with 7700+ attempts.

Um, you do realize it was much, much, much harder to pass in the old days right, when db's could almost murder wr's without getting called for penalties, etc.,? How about comparing Brady's stats against the average of his era vs. Otto's stats against the average of his era ... you'll be surprised what you find.

Quote:

I think it's easier to make it to a title game when there is 8 teams including the Browns and the only playoff game you play is to a team with a 5-5-2 record and only 2 other teams having a winning record. A little different than playing a 16 game season against 31 other teams and 3 rounds of playoffs and when you actually get to the Championship game normally your playing a 11-5 or 12-4 team to get to the SB. Next is they have won their division 12 of the 14 Brady has played in and been to the playoffs 13 of those 14 years

I disagree, period. If the league only had 8 teams the competition would be insane and I believe it would be much harder to win a title by the old playoff system. There are ONLY 3-4 teams each year who have a real shot at winning a SB now anyways, and 27-28 garbage teams to beat up on ...

Quote:

oh & maybe we forgot to mention this but he is still playing!

Had Brady played corner back and punt returner for even half a season he probably would have had to retire immediately ... Otto played db and punt returner for years and was good at both! You can't be crazy enough to think Brady is a better "athlete" than Otto was ... that is insanity.

Quote:

Graham won 4 titles in the AAFC & 3 in the NFL. I would have to say coaching and the rest of the team would have had to play a good part in those with Otto's passing numbers. Do you not think that if Otto had to pass more than 2600 times in his entire 10 year career his stats may have been a lot worse?

Nope; I think they would have been right around the same ... but that doesn't make any difference anyways ... lots of guys have better "stats" than Brady ... stats don't mean all that much.

Quote:

The funny thing is that people like you show up all the time wanting to throw up old players like this and their Championships. If that is the case 1/2 the league with their 1 SB can eat shorts because the Lions have 4 NFL Championships and they count to! Oh and they won as many NFL titles as the Browns in the same time Otto played. Bobby Layne GOAT!

Bobby Layne was a bad man ... you won't get an argument from me there

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingofkings1281

18 people voted for Peyton Manning? Someone please justify that...

Brady has just TWO 1st team all-pros in his career and TWO MVP'S ... how many does Manning have? That's enough of a reason to rank Manning ahead of Brady for many people ... I'm not saying I'm one of them, but I understand the argument and can respect it.

There are people who feel had their situations been reversed Manning would have 6-8 rings by now and Brady would have 0-1 ... are they right? Maybe, maybe not ...

twisty571 · 04-30-2016, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jameis1of1

[COLOR="Red"]

Yup, I know that ... the NFL thought it was the major leagues and that when the Browns came in, they would get killed ... and yet Otto led them to straight title games ... he was a bad man!

You apparently can't fact check well. He didn't come in and just win 2 in a row. His play was not great in 1950 but they still won it. Then it wasn't until 1955 when they won again. Now your acting like you were there and by you making your letting red it seems your just out for attention or to troll.

twisty571 · 04-30-2016, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jameis1of1

Brady has just TWO 1st team all-pros in his career and TWO MVP'S ... how many does Manning have? That's enough of a reason to rank Manning ahead of Brady for many people ... I'm not saying I'm one of them, but I understand the argument and can respect it.
..

Yeah in a league with 13 teams and less than 1/2 the players to compete with. I will go ahead and say it now. I know you like to avoid that fact and the fact that Otto wasn't a great passer and didn't have to throw but 2600 times in his 10 year career.

twisty571 · 04-30-2016, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jameis1of1

[COLOR="Red"]
Nope; I think they would have been right around the same ... but that doesn't make any difference anyways ... lots of guys have better "stats" than Brady ... stats don't mean all that much.

Really? Stats are all that matter except Championships. Next please show me "lots of guys have better "stats" than Brady"

Stifle · 04-30-2016, 06:54 PM

Otto Graham was a HOFer and a GREAT QB, but he had the ALL TIME GREATEST COACHING staff EVER that was decades ahead of preparing players !
Joe Montana had Bill Walsh who was managed under Paul Brown. Joe had the luxury of keeping teammates because free agency that we know of today didn't exist back then (Plan B). Montana had 4 one and done playoff losses while Brady has had 2 with more Post Season appearances.

Stifle · 04-30-2016, 07:00 PM

Cleveland was so GREAT that they had a quarterback (Graham) not ATTEMPT a pass against one of the top teams and still WON ! That spoke volumes of how GREAT the Offensive Line and coaching staff was ! Paul Brown knew he could beat the better teams without even utilizing their star QB. Only time in NFL HISTORY that a team never attempted a single pass, and yet WON !

devo · 04-30-2016, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stifle

Otto Graham was a HOFer and a GREAT QB, but he had the ALL TIME GREATEST COACHING staff EVER that was decades ahead of preparing players !
Joe Montana had Bill Walsh who was managed under Paul Brown. Joe had the luxury of keeping teammates because free agency that we know of today didn't exist back then (Plan B). Montana had 4 one and done playoff losses while Brady has had 2 with more Post Season appearances.

Graham had Brown.
Montana had Walsh.
Brady had Belichick.
Manning had... Mora/Dungy/Caldwell/Fox/Kubiak

Manning = GOAT

Jameis1of1 · 04-30-2016, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twisty571

Yeah in a league with 13 teams and less than 1/2 the players to compete with. I will go ahead and say it now. I know you like to avoid that fact and the fact that Otto wasn't a great passer and didn't have to throw but 2600 times in his 10 year career.

No QB's threw a lot in that era! However, Otto was also a GREAT running QB, STARTED at CB and RETURNED PUNTS ... Brady simply isn't in his league, period.

devo · 04-30-2016, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingofkings1281

18 people voted for Peyton Manning? Someone please justify that...

I'm hoping this is a joke...

RedSoxFan28 · 04-30-2016, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jameis1of1

No QB's threw a lot in that era! However, Otto was also a GREAT running QB, STARTED at CB and RETURNED PUNTS ... Brady simply isn't in his league, period.

How many QBs back then played multiple positions? How many QBs now play multiple positions(OFF/DEF)?

Kingofkings1281 · 04-30-2016, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devo

I'm hoping this is a joke...

Not at all, because it's laughable.

88horsepower · 04-30-2016, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingofkings1281

Not at all, because it's laughable.

It's commonly argued by many, but laughable by your standards. Hubris.

Jameis1of1 · 04-30-2016, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSoxFan28

How many QBs back then played multiple positions? How many QBs now play multiple positions(OFF/DEF)?

There is no way Brady could have started at cb and punt returner back then, the way Otto did ... that's not a knock on Brady but it is a plus for Otto.

No1CavsFan · 04-30-2016, 09:58 PM

I believe Greg Oden is the GOAT.
Are there any questions for me?

88horsepower · 04-30-2016, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No1CavsFan

I believe Greg Oden is the GOAT.
Are there any questions for me?

twisty571 · 05-01-2016, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jameis1of1

There is no way Brady could have started at cb and punt returner back then, the way Otto did ... that's not a knock on Brady but it is a plus for Otto.

And Otto probably wouldn't be a QB in today's game. So what's your point?

biletnikoff · 05-01-2016, 04:41 AM

http://www.footballdb.com/games/boxs...gid=2005020601

View Poll Results: Who is the NFL'S GOAT?
Tom Brady because of his individual greatness	49	30.06%
Tom Brady because of the team success he's had	22	13.50%
Otto Graham	9	5.52%
Jerry Rice	22	13.50%
Jim Brown	8	4.91%
Joe Montana	21	12.88%
Peyton Manning	20	12.27%
Walter Payton	9	5.52%
Ronnie Lott	0	0%
Lawrence Taylor	3	1.84%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

04-29-2016, 10:17 PM	#151
Stifle Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: I've met great collectors throughout MI and N. Indiana / CHI. Posts: 9,459 Stifle	M. Motley vs C. Dillon and the other 15 running backs, advantage : Otto Graham, Offensive Line - which team will have the Most HOFers - Advantage : Graham, what team was able to keep its stars from leaving the team, Advantage : Graham. The BEST way to CRITIQUE if the Coach is responsible for the SUCCESS or the QB : How well did the pupils of the Coachs do when they received a opportunity = LANDRY & KNOLL & WALSH vs "Not worth mentioning" ! Graham had the ALL TIME GREATEST STAFF of Coaches EVER in the History of SPORTS while Bill B. Has been able to ride Brady ! Graham would have been CAPTAIN CLIPBOARD if Brady was his teammate ! Last edited by Stifle; 04-29-2016 at 10:27 PM. Reason: Edit

04-30-2016, 12:44 PM	#157
Kingofkings1281 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 9,621 Kingofkings1281	18 people voted for Peyton Manning? Someone please justify that... __________________ Always looking for high end Vince Carter, Randy Moss and Tom Brady. http://kingofkings1281.imgur.com

04-30-2016, 06:54 PM	#163
Stifle Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: I've met great collectors throughout MI and N. Indiana / CHI. Posts: 9,459 Stifle	Brady Otto Graham was a HOFer and a GREAT QB, but he had the ALL TIME GREATEST COACHING staff EVER that was decades ahead of preparing players ! Joe Montana had Bill Walsh who was managed under Paul Brown. Joe had the luxury of keeping teammates because free agency that we know of today didn't exist back then (Plan B). Montana had 4 one and done playoff losses while Brady has had 2 with more Post Season appearances.

04-30-2016, 07:00 PM	#164
Stifle Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: I've met great collectors throughout MI and N. Indiana / CHI. Posts: 9,459 Stifle	Cleveland was so GREAT that they had a quarterback (Graham) not ATTEMPT a pass against one of the top teams and still WON ! That spoke volumes of how GREAT the Offensive Line and coaching staff was ! Paul Brown knew he could beat the better teams without even utilizing their star QB. Only time in NFL HISTORY that a team never attempted a single pass, and yet WON ! Last edited by Stifle; 04-30-2016 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Edit

04-30-2016, 10:00 AM	#153
blackbears86 Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: maine Posts: 17,211 blackbears86	Jameis1of1: The only way your winning this vote is in your mind. The voters of blowout have spoken............................Brady. Let's just end this thread.........

04-30-2016, 10:43 AM	#155
jasonm2121 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: GOAT City Posts: 12,007	Hello there, Brady is the best

04-30-2016, 10:43 AM	#156
RogerGodahell Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Cardboard Enthusiast Posts: 20,783 RogerGodahell	He didn't lead them to 10 straight NFL title games either because he only played in the NFL for 6 years 1950-1955. In which he was 3-3 in championship games. That is still great but it was a completely different era not even remotely close to what it is today. That would be like comparing baseball from the late 1890's early 1900's to post dead ball and modern era.

04-30-2016, 09:58 PM	#172
No1CavsFan Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Australia/Delaware Posts: 2,214 No1CavsFan	I believe Greg Oden is the GOAT. Are there any questions for me? __________________ Supercollecting Jeffery Simmons

05-01-2016, 04:41 AM	#175
biletnikoff Banned Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 531	http://www.footballdb.com/games/boxs...gid=2005020601 Last edited by biletnikoff; 05-01-2016 at 04:44 AM.