QUESTONS for those who feel Tim Brady is the GOAT
 

Firstly, I'm not a Brady fan nor a Brady hater.

Secondly, I think he is one of the greatest QB's ever.

HOWEVER, I don't understand why anyone considers him the GOAT.

Listen, football is the epitome of a "team" sport. It's not boxing or tennis and it's not even basketball where one star player can carry a team to victory almost single-handedly.

There are 22 starters plus special teams in football and one player simply cannot carry a team to victory on the NFL level, no matter how great that one player is. This being the case, I have a very hard time factoring in "team success" to discussions of which player was the greatest "individual" player.

For example, there is nothing anyone can say that will ever make me believe that Terry Bradshaw was a better QB than Brett Favre, wven though he has three more rings. There is a reason Bradshaw was named 1st team all-pro just once and Favre was a three time 1st team all-pro and three time NFL MVP!

The above said, I sincerely want to hear from all those who actually believe that Tom Brady is THE GOAT after they read and consider and reply to the following:

Tom Brady's "individual" resume is nowhere near as impressive as many other players.

Tom Brady is a TWO time 1st team all-pro and TWO time MVP ... Aaron Rodgers has done the exact same thing and has only been a starting QB for 7 full seasons.

Jerry Rice was a TEN time 1st team all-pro and TWO time OPOY (as good as an MVP for a receiver).

Jim Brown was a EIGHT time 1st team all-pro, and FOUR time consensus MVP.

Peyton Manning was a SEVEN time 1st team all-pro and FIVE time MVP.

Brett Favre was a THREE time 1st team all-pro and THREE time MVP.

[B][COLOR="Red"]What makes Brady rank higher on your individual GOAT lists than the above players?[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR="Blue"]Now, if your answer is, "Well, Brady has experienced more 'team success' than all of the above players, I would like to ask you WHY you rank Brady ahead of Joe Montana?[/COLOR][/B]

Joe Montana was a THREE time 1st team all-pro and TWO time MVP, which is better than Brady and Montana has just as many rings while also playing near perfect football in his Super Bowls and never having lost a single one. So again, I ask you, WHY do you personally rank Brady ahead of someone like Montana?

[B][COLOR="Purple"]Finally, I have one last question for you ... how in the world can you possibly rank Brady ahead of OTTO GRAHAM on an all-time GOAT list.[/COLOR][/B]

Graham was a SEVEN time 1st team all-pro (Brady is a two-time 1t team all-pro), THREE time MVP (Brady is a two-time MVP) ... and if you include "team success" in your formula for deciding who the GOAT was ... Graham played 10 years and went to TEN STRAIGHT title games (Brady has been to 6 in 14 full seasons) and won SEVEN rings (Brady has won four)!

In conclusion, I personally think Brady is an all-time great and belongs in the top 15 QB's of all-time with Graham, Montana, Manning, Favre, Marino, Unitas, Rodgers, Elway, Staubach, Moon, Young, Warner, Brees and Bradshaw and the top 100 players of all-time.

I do not however understand how anyone can seriously believe he is the GOAT and I would like to hear the reasons from those who do believe such.

As for me ... I voted for Jerry Rice as his individual greatness is beyond question and I just cannot possibly put that much weight on "rings" in a sport where there are 22 players plus special teams that greatly impact whether a team wins or loses ... however ... Rice does have three rings as well :-)

Don't know about this "Tim" fellow, but Tom Brady is pretty darn good : )

172-51 record, Highest winning percentage all time, and this....


NFL records
NFL (career)
Most games, 145+ passer rating, career: 13
Most games, 125+ passer rating, season: 7
Highest completion percentage, post-season game (minimum 20 attempts): 92.9
Most games with at least 75% pass completion rate and no interceptions, season (minimum 20 attempts per game): 6
Highest completion percentage, game (minimum 6 TD passes): 85.3
Longest pass completion: 99 yards (tied with 12 other QBs)
Most Passing Touchdowns, Season, Away: 29
Most Games 3+ TD Passes, Season: 12
Most consecutive home games with 1+ touchdown pass: 47
Most Consecutive Uninterrupted Games, 1+ Touchdown Passes: 52
Most Consecutive Games, 3+ Touchdown Passes: 10
Most Passing Touchdowns, one quarter: 5
Most games, 115+ passer rating, season: 10, Aaron Rodgers 2011, Tom Brady 2007, Steve Young 1994
Most games, 120+ passer rating, season: 8, Tom Brady, 2007, Philip Rivers, 2008
Most games, 140+ passer rating, season: 4, Jacky Lee 1961, Roger Staubach 1973, Tom Brady 2007 & 2010, Aaron Rodgers 2011 & 2014
Most games, 145+ passer rating, season: 4, Tom Brady 2007, Roger Staubach 1973
Most games, 150+ passer rating, season: 2, Steve Young 1993, Kurt Warner 1999, Tom Brady 2007, Drew Brees 2009, Aaron Rodgers 2014
Most seasons, 110+ passer rating: 2, Tom Brady 2007-2010, Peyton Manning 2004-2013, Aaron Rodgers 2011-2014
Most games 35 completions, season: 3, Tom Brady 2002, Rich Gannon 2002 and Peyton Manning 2010
Most passing yards, any quarter: 252, Tom Brady on October 19, 2009; Boomer Esiason on November 10, 1996
Most consecutive 400+ yards passing games: 2; Dan Fouts, 1982; Dan Marino, 1984; Phil Simms, 1985; Billy Volek, 2004; Matt Cassel, 2008; Cam Newton, 2011, Tom Brady, 2011; Philip Rivers, 2013
Most Games 1+ TD Passes, Season: 16, Dan Marino, 1984, 1986; Dave Krieg, 1984; Kurt Warner, 1999; Brett Favre, 2003; Daunte Culpepper, 2004; Tom Brady, 2010–2012; Drew Brees, 2010–2011, 2013-2014; Matthew Stafford, 2011; Peyton Manning, 2012–2013; Philip Rivers, 2013; Ben Roethlisberger, 2013
Most Seasons, 50+ Touchdown Passes: 1, Tom Brady, 2007; Peyton Manning, 2013
Most Consecutive Games, 5+ Touchdown Passes: 2, Ben Roethlisberger 2014, Tom Brady 2007, Daunte Culpepper 2004, Tom Flores (AFL) 1963,
Most consecutive home wins, regular season, by a starting quarterback: 31, Tom Brady, New England Patriots, 2006–2011
Most road wins in a season, regular season, by a starting quarterback: 8, Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers, 1990; Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams, 2001; Tom Brady, New England Patriots, 2007; Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys, 2014
Most wins in a season, regular season and post-season, by a starting quarterback: 18, Tom Brady, New England Patriots, 2007
Most wins in a season, regular season, by a starting quarterback: 16, Tom Brady, New England Patriots, 2007
Most consecutive wins against a single opponent, regular season and post-season, by a starting quarterback: 13, Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers, vs. Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1987, 1991–1998; Tom Brady, New England Patriots vs. Buffalo Bills, 2003–2010
Most career wins with one team: 172
Fewest pass attempts to reach 400 passing touchdowns: 7,282
Has amassed eight 50-point games in his career, most in NFL history:
52 vs. Washington (10/28/07) 56 vs. Buffalo (11/18/07) 59 vs. Tennessee (10/18/09) 52 at Buffalo (9/30/12) 59 vs. Indianapolis (11/18/12) 55 vs. Pittsburgh (11/3/13) 51 vs. Chicago (10/26/14) 51 vs. Jacksonville (9/27/15)

Playoffs (career)
Most games played - 31[146]
Most games started for a quarterback - 31
Most games won as starting quarterback - 22
Most consecutive wins, post-season, by a starting quarterback: 10
Most consecutive wins to start a career, post-season, by a starting quarterback: 10, Tom Brady, New England Patriots, 2001, 2003–2005
Most career home wins, post-season, by a starting quarterback: 15, Tom Brady, New England Patriots, 2001–2016
Most consecutive home wins, post-season, by a starting quarterback: 8, Tom Brady, New England Patriots, 2001–2007; Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills 1988, 1990–1991, 1993, 1995
Most touchdown passes - 56
Most yards gained - 7,345
Most passes completed - 683
Most passes attempted - 1,085
Most division titles for a starting quarterback - 13
Most NFL conference championship appearances for a starting quarterback - 10
Most NFL conference championship wins for a starting quarterback - 6
Most career 300+ passing yard games in postseason history

Super Bowl (career)
Most touchdown passes - 13[147]
Most yards gained - 1,605
Most passes completed - 164
Most passes attempted - 247
Most passes completed in first half of a single Super Bowl - 20
Most passes completed in a single Super Bowl - 37
Most Super Bowl appearances - 6 (tied with Mike Lodish)

Enough with the Brady threads, getting ridiculous

Both of the Brady options combined

[QUOTE=matt060488;10799074]Enough with the Brady threads, getting ridiculous[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Red"][B]This has NOTHING to do with deflate gate ... and can become "the NFL GOAT thread" ... I hope it goes for a long, long time as there are a ton of options and it would be great to know who EVERYONE on this board believes the NFL GOAT is :)![/B]
[/COLOR]


[QUOTE=RogerGodahell;10799070]172-51 record, Highest winning percentage all time,[/quote]

[B][COLOR="Red"]Not true ... Otto Graham's is higher ;)

I also appreciate the stat-list you posted but guys like Manning, Rice and Jim Brown could have the same sort of lists.

What I'm looking for is for people to actually EXPLAIN "why" Brady rates ahead of guys, especially [U]Jerry Rice[/U] and [U]Otto Graham.[/U]

Now, I've got to go play monopoly with my children but I plan to reply to future posts later tonight.

[/COLOR][/B]

I was hoping/waiting for the Lawrence Taylor synopsis on why he was included in the conversation for voting, that must have been for me to prob be the only vote ,:)!

No serious football fan, at least outside of Brady's family, thinks Tom Brady is the GOAT.

If you believe he is the GOAT, then at least admit to yourself that you're biased as a Patriots fan. And if you still think he's GOAT after that, then consider a sport that's easier for you to follow... I hear drone racing is a thing now.

Brady is a great QB, though his reputation is forever tarnished by all the cheating NE has done. But even without the cheating it's laughable to consider him GOAT. It reminds me of people who think the most current pop star or actor is the greatest of all time in their respective fields.... because their fans don't know the history of all the greats that came before them.

[QUOTE=Jameis1of1;10799118][COLOR="Red"][B]This has NOTHING to do with deflate gate ... and can become "the NFL GOAT thread" ... I hope it goes for a long, long time as there are a ton of options and it would be great to know who EVERYONE on this board believes the NFL GOAT is :)![/B]
[/COLOR]




[B][COLOR="Red"]Not true ... Otto Graham's is higher ;)

I also appreciate the stat-list you posted but guys like Manning, Rice and Jim Brown could have the same sort of lists.

What I'm looking for is for people to actually EXPLAIN "why" Brady rates ahead of guys, especially [U]Jerry Rice[/U] and [U]Otto Graham.[/U]

Now, I've got to go play monopoly with my children but I plan to reply to future posts later tonight.

[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

Otto Graham played in the pre superbowl era when there were only like 12 teams and there were no playoffs just a championship game. What he did was still amazing but Brady has been to 10 afc championships and 6 super bowls with a playoff system. Back then the 2 teams with the best record just played a championship game. If that was still the case Brady would have already been in like i dont even know how many championships, a lot. Manning would have more appearances as well.

[QUOTE=matt060488;10799074]Enough with the Brady threads, getting ridiculous[/QUOTE]

It is pretty much from those who dislike him/NE. We try to keep it to the team thread but every now and again 7 spill out by those bored with their own teams :)

No serious football fan doesn't think Tom Brady is the GOAT.

If you don't believe he is the GOAT, then at least admit to yourself that you're a biased Patriots hater. And if you still don't think he's the GOAT after that, then consider a sport that's easier for you to follow... I hear drone racing is a thing now.

Never really hear that many people say he is the NFL GOAT, usually the QB GOAT

to me the NFL GOAT is Mr. Rice

EDIT: And QB GOAT is probably Montana

[QUOTE=ejs23;10799181]No serious football fan, at least outside of Brady's family, thinks Tom Brady is the GOAT.

If you believe he is the GOAT, then at least admit to yourself that you're biased as a Patriots fan. And if you still think he's GOAT after that, then consider a sport that's easier for you to follow... I hear drone racing is a thing now.

Brady is a great QB, though his reputation is forever tarnished by all the cheating NE has done. But even without the cheating it's laughable to consider him GOAT. It reminds me of people who think the most current pop star or actor is the greatest of all time in their respective fields.... because their fans don't know the history of all the greats that came before them.[/QUOTE]

Your posts on this topic are unbearable. Your constant trolling isn't even of the entertaining variety like phinz, it's just garbage. Go ahead and give me your "serious football fan" quiz and I guarantee I'll pass your little history test. Guess what? After I'm done, I'll still say Brady is one of the three best QB's of all time. So there goes your moronic theory.

[QUOTE=RogerGodahell;10799183]OBack then the 2 teams with the best record just played a championship game. If that was still the case Brady would have already been in like i dont even know how many championships, a lot. Manning would have more appearances as well.[/QUOTE]

If we are talking NFC, AFC combined, depending on tie-breakers the Patriots would still only have 4-6 Championship appearances. They just win their division, a lot but not always the best record.

This man.

[IMG]http://www.pittsburghsportsreport.com/PSR/sites/default/files/UP%20CLOSE_Johnny%2BUnitas_Getty%20Images.jpg[/IMG]

I don't think I can really say anyone guy is the GOAT, but IMO it would be between Montana, Brady, Brown, Rice and Walter.

Can't go wrong with that list IMO.

I think Jameis Winston is the GOAT

[QUOTE=corndog;10799405]This man.

[IMG]http://www.pittsburghsportsreport.com/PSR/sites/default/files/UP%20CLOSE_Johnny%2BUnitas_Getty%20Images.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

This +100000000

At the very least, hands down the greatest QB of all time. Revolutionized the QB position and played in an era where lineman couldn't use their hands to block, there was no roughing the passer, no facemask, no pass interference, no defensive holding, etc.

Truly remarkable what he was able to accomplish.

^^^ Is that Vinatieri? i heard he won a couple super bowls

[QUOTE=RedSoxFan28;10799238]No serious football fan doesn't think Tom Brady is the GOAT.

If you don't believe he is the GOAT, then at least admit to yourself that you're a biased Patriots hater. And if you still don't think he's the GOAT after that, then consider a sport that's easier for you to follow... I hear drone racing is a thing now.[/QUOTE]

Hubris.

Brady is in the conversation. There's no definitive criteria or empirical evidence that clarifies who the GOAT is.

[QUOTE=ejs23;10799181]No serious football fan, at least outside of Brady's family, thinks Tom Brady is the GOAT.

If you believe he is the GOAT, then at least admit to yourself that you're biased as a Patriots fan. And if you still think he's GOAT after that, then consider a sport that's easier for you to follow... I hear drone racing is a thing now.
[/QUOTE]
^^^^^^^
[QUOTE=88horsepower;10799646]Hubris.

Brady is in the conversation. There's no definitive criteria or empirical evidence that clarifies who the GOAT is.[/QUOTE]
I agree there isn't any definitive criteria(etc) for the GOAT, it's hard to compare across positions and generations, but there isn't a QB in NFL history I'd rather have than Brady.

Despite football being the epitome of a "team" sport, Tommy has led 6 of them to the superbowl, and each team was different, some were [B]vastly[/B] different.

This IMO is one of the main reasons I consider him the GOAT.

Even the most vocal of Brady haters would secretly love to have him on their team.. Dont deny it because WE ALL KNOW its true.

EDIT: Funny, Ive just noticed it in this thread, and several others around these boards since I joined.
Whenever there is a Brady (GOAT) thread, there's always haters that resort to insults, name calling, and the like.. Psycologists will tell you that when adults resort to that type of behavior in similar types of debates, and situations its because they know they're wrong.

My special word of the day is: LOGIC
Logic is definitely a "taught" skill..

[QUOTE=RedSoxFan28;10799785]
I agree there isn't any definitive criteria(etc) for the GOAT, it's hard to compare across positions and generations, but there isn't a QB in NFL history I'd rather have than Brady.[/QUOTE]

Then just say that you'd rather have him than anyone else. Nothing wrong with that. But when you say that no serious fan doesn't think he's the GOAT, that's a rather condescending statement. Many players, Brady included, are in the conversation. It's one that likely won't ever have a true answer.

That other guy is in the same boat as you. It's not a statement worth making on either side of the coin.

[QUOTE=ejs23;10799181]No serious football fan, at least outside of Brady's family, thinks Tom Brady is the GOAT.

If you believe he is the GOAT, then at least admit to yourself that you're biased as a Patriots fan. And if you still think he's GOAT after that, then consider a sport that's easier for you to follow... I hear drone racing is a thing now.

Brady is a great QB, though his reputation is forever tarnished by all the cheating NE has done. But even without the cheating it's laughable to consider him GOAT. It reminds me of people who think the most current pop star or actor is the greatest of all time in their respective fields.... because their fans don't know the history of all the greats that came before them.[/QUOTE]


wow... just, wow. this guy. ^
all the cheating...?
fans dont know the history?!

Is there a block function on these boards because Ive just found my guy.

Before I not ever speak to you, or have to torture myself by looking at anything you post, here: [url=http://yourteamcheats.com/]Your Team Cheats - The Definitive Guide to NFL Cheating[/url]

[QUOTE=88horsepower;10799954]Then just say that you'd rather have him than anyone else. Nothing wrong with that. But when you say that no serious fan doesn't think he's the GOAT, that's a rather condescending statement. Many players, Brady included, are in the conversation. It's one that likely won't ever have a true answer.

That other guy is in the same boat as you. It's not a statement worth making on either side of the coin.[/QUOTE]
I was mocking Ejs23's statement.