2025 Topps Chrome VeeFriends

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

So, so true. I can see the sports crowd is going hard on this. Level of manipulation off the charts.

Instead of yelling at the clouds, tell us how exactly its being manipulated. Outside of the obvious Gary V marketing. What is actually being done to manipulate the prices? Be specific. I have given specific information about the market activity with hard numbers and data. I would love to be shown how its all wrong. Because like you, I thought that is exactly what would happen at release. But unlike you apparently, I keep an open mind and actually look for data once a product hits the market. Then I go strictly off what is happening.

[sketchopolix]

Originally Posted by premium1981

...But unlike you apparently, I keep an open mind and actually look for data once a product hits the market.

Data is a four letter word.

[crdbored]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Instead of yelling at the clouds, tell us how exactly its being manipulated. Outside of the obvious Gary V marketing. What is actually being done to manipulate the prices? Be specific. I have given specific information about the market activity with hard numbers and data. I would love to be shown how its all wrong. Because like you, I thought that is exactly what would happen at release. But unlike you apparently, I keep an open mind and actually look for data once a product hits the market. Then I go strictly off what is happening.

Fanatics has been manipulating it's releases lately. The most obvious one being the '24 Heritage High.

At release, boxes dropped on the Topps site for $100 and quickly "sold out."
Secondary prices subsequently shot up. Some time later, Fanatics must have found extra stock lying around or printed more (sarcasm) and put it up on their Fanatics site for $159.99 adjusting it to the secondary prices they fueled.
It basically ensured that HN would not go down in price.
HN is still up and readily available.

Across other releases, Topps has been limiting allocation to their site. Since moving to the Shopify site, some users have been able to see the little inventory stock on some product. (probably using a browser extension)

Topps got smart with the TC VeeFriends and put it behing an EQL drop.
It would not be surprising if some LCS and breakers get more product at a "market" price or if Fanatics puts up boxes on their site at $399.99.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by maneonemo

Dude has 4.6M youtube followers and his last cards videos only pulled 17k and 29k views. Some army that is.

Google AI -- Google and YouTube share the same parent company, Alphabet -- has this to say about possible fake YouTube subscriber counts:

Fake subscriber counts on YouTube can be identified through various indicators, including high subscriber counts with low engagement, sudden spikes in subscriber numbers without corresponding content activity, generic or irrelevant comments, and inconsistent audience demographics. Tools like Influencer Hero's Fake Follower Checker, Modash, and HypeAuditor can help analyze influencer accounts and detect fake subscribers.

Here's a discussion on YouTubers possibly paying for fake subscribers: https://www.reddit.com/r/NewTubers/c...for_subsviews/

You too can instantly gain thousands of fake subs for twenty bucks:

Paid $20 each on 3 vids and gained over 3000 subs.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by crdbored

Fanatics has been manipulating it's releases lately. The most obvious one being the '24 Heritage High.

At release, boxes dropped on the Topps site for $100 and quickly "sold out."
Secondary prices subsequently shot up. Some time later, Fanatics must have found extra stock lying around or printed more (sarcasm) and put it up on their Fanatics site for $159.99 adjusting it to the secondary prices they fueled.
It basically ensured that HN would not go down in price.
HN is still up and readily available.

Across other releases, Topps has been limiting allocation to their site. Since moving to the Shopify site, some users have been able to see the little inventory stock on some product. (probably using a browser extension)

Topps got smart with the TC VeeFriends and put it behing an EQL drop.
It would not be surprising if some LCS and breakers get more product at a "market" price or if Fanatics puts up boxes on their site at $399.99.

I get your point, but I don't see that as manipulating the prices. I see it as them wanting more of the actual value as opposed to blowing it all out at their first cheap price for presales. This is nothing new, distributors have always done this. You just couldn't see it unless you had that direct pricing. The only thing that has changed is Fanatics doing it on the front end.

But again, I don't see that as manipulating prices. Heritage High was going to go up in price regardless. The secondary market was going to dictate that. If I own every Ohtani rookie autograph, and they are worth $1,000 each, it would be a stupid business move to sell them all at $400 knowing they are worth far more.

I understand the hatred towards Fanatics, but at the end of the day it isn't changing secondary prices. As the saying goes, "the market is going to market". If you were to take over Fanatics tomorrow as their CEO and decided to do a release like HHN as a straight $99 a box until sold out, you would be a horrible CEO.

When I hear the term "manipulating prices" I think more along the lines of Gary V releasing this set, and then Gary V buying up all the boxes and running up all the auctions. That is market manipulation. And although I'm sure that was probably a play in his playbook that could have been deployed, I don't think it was needed here.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Google AI -- Google and YouTube share the same parent company, Alphabet -- has this to say about possible fake YouTube subscriber counts:

Fake subscribers or not, crappy videos don't go viral often. Even when I am watching market videos on other topics like Pokemon or TCG the big guys even admit that they have to use click bait to get views. Guys like Rudy have to tell the world Pokemon is crashing in the title to get views. So I take subscribers, and also views with a grain of salt. It doesn't mean much. Especially not when there are so many other things to go off of that have merit.

[armyml]

Originally Posted by crdbored

Fanatics has been manipulating it's releases lately. The most obvious one being the '24 Heritage High.

At release, boxes dropped on the Topps site for $100 and quickly "sold out."
Secondary prices subsequently shot up. Some time later, Fanatics must have found extra stock lying around or printed more (sarcasm) and put it up on their Fanatics site for $159.99 adjusting it to the secondary prices they fueled.
It basically ensured that HN would not go down in price.
HN is still up and readily available.

Fanatics has been running releases the same since they took over regardless of product. High Number had massive hype because it was Skenes AND the 1975 year. Started around 200, got to 220 or so, now its 150.

As a store owner I see it every release. Topps does their little EQL drops on their website but they have no say on what the price to customer is going to be on products that sell out on their website(which is like 90% of them).

I don't care what cost is from Topps for my cases, I have to wait to see what the Big 3 price stuff at for sports or TCGplayer for gaming to see whether I'm going to make a profit or lose my ass.

MSRP on Veefriends is like what...120 bucks or something? Far as I can see its places like Dave and Adams and BO that put boxes up for pre-order at 400 dollars and everyone just kind of follows suit. It isn't Topps/Fanatics manipulating at that level. Now talking bounties/artificial scarcity is a different story. Thats just good marketing on their part and people seem to drink the Kool Aid. Don't hate the player hate the game.

[bub838]

I've been watching box prices with morbid curiosity. Congrats to anyone who's held on, hobby boxes have hit $500.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by bub838

I've been watching box prices with morbid curiosity. Congrats to anyone who's held on, hobby boxes have hit $500.

Yup, and blasters up nearly 100% from initial pricing too.

[PrinceVegeta]

Sold my boxes at $400 and blasters at $100. Actually insane

[sketchopolix]

Originally Posted by PrinceVegeta

Sold my boxes at $400 and blasters at $100. Actually insane

And right now you could sell boxes for $450 to DA who wants to sell them for 30% more

Kudos to Tim on calling this waaaay back.

Now I'm just waiting for two influencers to crack open their wallets and buy their supers. It's gotta be worth a bunch of views to post your own super on your socials, right???

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Instead of yelling at the clouds, tell us how exactly its being manipulated. Outside of the obvious Gary V marketing. What is actually being done to manipulate the prices? Be specific. I have given specific information about the market activity with hard numbers and data. I would love to be shown how its all wrong. Because like you, I thought that is exactly what would happen at release. But unlike you apparently, I keep an open mind and actually look for data once a product hits the market. Then I go strictly off what is happening.

Originally Posted by sketchopolix

Data is a four letter word.

I think there is misunderstanding here what is even being discussed. The price data itself does not reveal the motivations behind demand and what people are doing with a product. This is like me saying back during the pandemic the escalating prices themselves of 90 Marvel Universe boxes proves there is no manipulation (wut).

The question is are people buying this up at $400-500 a box because they are big collectors of Gary VeeFriends….or they think they can sell it for $750 a little later and because it’s a Topps Chrome release, which as usual is dominated by the sports crowd….and to keep the whole game going. Will let the reader decide for themself.

[bub838]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

I think there is misunderstanding here what is even being discussed. The price data itself does not reveal the motivations behind demand and what people are doing with a product. This is like me saying back during the pandemic the escalating prices themselves of 90 Marvel Universe boxes proves there is no manipulation (wut).

The question is are people buying this up at $400-500 a box because they are big collectors of Gary VeeFriends….or they think they can sell it for $750 a little later and because it’s a Topps Chrome release, which as usual is dominated by the sports crowd….and to keep the whole game going. Will let the reader decide for themself.

Probably a little of both. The cult is real.

[armyml]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

I think there is misunderstanding here what is even being discussed. The price data itself does not reveal the motivations behind demand and what people are doing with a product. This is like me saying back during the pandemic the escalating prices themselves of 90 Marvel Universe boxes proves there is no manipulation (wut).

The question is are people buying this up at $400-500 a box because they are big collectors of Gary VeeFriends….or they think they can sell it for $750 a little later and because it’s a Topps Chrome release, which as usual is dominated by the sports crowd….and to keep the whole game going. Will let the reader decide for themself.

What would be a good set to look at the data and compare the amount of singles sold for X amount of time vs. sealed boxes. I'm trying to think of something that was somewhat limited that people jumped on boxes to flip but didn't open too much of. Dune maybe or was that too limited?

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by armyml

What would be a good set to look at the data and compare the amount of singles sold for X amount of time vs. sealed boxes. I'm trying to think of something that was somewhat limited that people jumped on boxes to flip but didn't open too much of. Dune maybe or was that too limited?

Dune is the first thing that came to mind as well. Some of these sets like Dune, and presumably this, will have drastic price discrepancies between sealed boxes and singles.

[armyml]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Dune is the first thing that came to mind as well. Some of these sets like Dune, and presumably this, will have drastic price discrepancies between sealed boxes and singles.

And whats crazy is the boxes never come back down to Earth as the singles prices do. Combining that with boxes getting "aged" ie out of print they just never really come down to reality. I don't know if this is the best example but stuff like 2017 FUSM where the box is sitting at almost 3k now but PMGs and Marvel singles have definitely cooled off significantly from where they were during the bubble/boom.

[PrinceVegeta]

Originally Posted by sketchopolix

And right now you could sell boxes for $450 to DA who wants to sell them for 30% more

Kudos to Tim on calling this waaaay back.

Now I'm just waiting for two influencers to crack open their wallets and buy their supers. It's gotta be worth a bunch of views to post your own super on your socials, right???

I'm not complaining easy money in a hard market

[bub838]

Recent hobby sales: 580, 625, 550, 483, 516, 550
Blasters: 135, 125, 129, 121

[Xiarmadillo]

Metazoo 2.0

If you like to collect these for whatever reason great!

but mostly just hot potato/burger flips for a quick cash grab, primary and secondary market alike

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

I think there is misunderstanding here what is even being discussed. The price data itself does not reveal the motivations behind demand and what people are doing with a product. This is like me saying back during the pandemic the escalating prices themselves of 90 Marvel Universe boxes proves there is no manipulation (wut).

The question is are people buying this up at $400-500 a box because they are big collectors of Gary VeeFriends….or they think they can sell it for $750 a little later and because it’s a Topps Chrome release, which as usual is dominated by the sports crowd….and to keep the whole game going. Will let the reader decide for themself.

It doesn't matter, both still has end user demand. You can cut the middle man out of car sales too. It doesn't change the fact that there is end user demand.

Your example A: Someone buys a box for $500 because they are big collectors of VeeFriends. That is front end obvious demand.

Your example B: A flipper buys a box for $400 a month ago thinking they could get $500 now. Or $500 now thinking they can get $700 later. Who buys from them? Yes, there may be other flippers thinking they can go even higher, but you can actually look to see if that is whats happening or not. Especially now with how easy it is to find information on the internet.

I said many months ago that I actually looked at the numbers and made my judgements off of that. The pump and dump products happen really fast and that house of cards quickly tumbles. Demand products usually just show tiny pullbacks but overall a trend up upwards movement. That is what happened with this product. Why you ask? Because of breakers. Todays card market is not the same as a year ago, much less 5 years ago. There are so many breakers fractionalizing the costs of these products that its a vacuum in the sealed product market. They can't get enough, and because of that the prices for products that have demand are usually only up. Going back to my previous comment, I saw the actual end user demand weeks ago and even put it in here. Breakers were pulling in $10k in revenue on these case breaks. I haven't looked in the last week or so, but these breaks were being filled with no problem at all and on multiples channels and platforms. You cannot have boxes remaining at $400 when 12 box case breaks are brining in $8k, $9k, and $10k in revenue. That is why they are now $500. And I don't see anything making that trend line reverse.

Here is my questions though. when something is this obvious and people still refuse to admit it, why is that? Is it a fear of admitting being wrong? Is it an ignorance towards reality? I really don't understand. No one knows what the future holds 6 months, a year, or 5 years down the road, but if this was strictly a pump and dump it would have shown itself already. As stupid as the product is in my mind, the demand is there. There are people out there who still refuse to admit our Earth isn't flat, so I guess no matter what the discussion is there will always be people who refuse to see reality. To each their own.

[Xiarmadillo]

These cards released early April, I don't think you can say 'if it is a pump and dump it would have shown itself already", for all we know its still in the pump stage

If you made money flipping great, and you are right, it matters NOT to flippers who the end user is, as long as its flippable/scalpable who cares.

If you like the cards to collect at the prices now and dont care if it goes up or down then it also doesnt matter just buy it at what price you are happy and can afford

If you are looking to get in to hold for appreciation I would say there are enough red flags you should stay the F away as there are better risk rewards elsewhere. But hey your money can do whatever you like

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by Xiarmadillo

These cards released early April, I don't think you can say 'if it is a pump and dump it would have shown itself already", for all we know its still in the pump stage

You conveniently left off everything that I posted about why its not "in the pump stage". For some odd reason, no one ever argues the actual data/numbers. The actual spots that are being purchased every single day in these breaks. The actual amount breakers are pulling in. The only argument is basically "I don't like it".

[Xiarmadillo]

Originally Posted by premium1981

You conveniently left off everything that I posted about why its not "in the pump stage". For some odd reason, no one ever argues the actual data/numbers. The actual spots that are being purchased every single day in these breaks. The actual amount breakers are pulling in. The only argument is basically "I don't like it".

What evidence? that there are degenerate gamblers out there willing to cha ching away their cash as long as there is a subgroup of 'bountied' card as lottery to fulfil the 'chase'?
That is as part of the pump as anything. By disproportionally bid up the top draws you get a larger delta in price/value for the uninformed gambler to chase

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by Xiarmadillo

What evidence? that there are degenerate gamblers out there willing to cha ching away their cash as long as there is a subgroup of 'bountied' card as lottery to fulfil the 'chase'?
That is as part of the pump as anything. By disproportionally bid up the top draws you get a larger delta in price/value for the uninformed gambler to chase

The majority of the all the card market is based around "gambling". A $100 box of cards is a gamble as much as a $1,000 box of cards is. Opening it yourself is as much of a gamble as buying into a break is. Bounties are part of demand, as they are in other industries. Its called marketing, to drive sales. That is the entire purpose. "We are giving away a free xxxx to one lucky customer who shops here today". You are describing demand in your argument saying there is no demand. You just don't like kind of demand.

"Yes, people are buying boxes at high prices, breaks are selling for high prices, singles are selling for high prices. But its all phantom demand. No one really wants it." Ok

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by Xiarmadillo

What evidence? that there are degenerate gamblers out there willing to cha ching away their cash as long as there is a subgroup of 'bountied' card as lottery to fulfil the 'chase'?
That is as part of the pump as anything. By disproportionally bid up the top draws you get a larger delta in price/value for the uninformed gambler to chase

No reason trying to explain.