Westbrook in straight beast mode again...

[21Pittsburgh58]

Originally Posted by mfw13

He's in his 9th season in the league....so it's not going to magically improve overnight. It is what it is....i.e. a major offensive weakness.

You are correct, but it's not a major offensive weakness. He'll never make more than he misses over the course of a season but what he can do is attempt to improve his shooting every year.

Even if he doesn't, I'll still want him taking the last shot for the Thunder with the game on the line.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Shooting 34% from 3 and 45% inside the arc is hardly a "major offensive weakness" Please don't exaggerate.

I'm not sure if you watch his games, but he's incredibly streaky from outside.

Westbrook will have constant 2/12 3 point shooting nights and then 1 random 6/7 from 3 night.

He's battling himself out there, needs to put away that shot and be more disciplined.

So whilst 34% overall is not crazy awful, most nights it's 20%. And he shoots 10 of them, not just 3 or 4.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

I'm not sure if you watch his games, but he's incredibly streaky from outside.

Westbrook will have constant 2/12 3 point shooting nights and then 1 random 6/7 from 3 night.

He's battling himself out there, needs to put away that shot and be more disciplined.

So whilst 34% overall is not crazy awful, most nights it's 20%. And he shoots 10 of them, not just 3 or 4.

My point stands true.

[ninjacookies]

But I don't think anyone argues the fact that he's never been a great pure shooter.

Put it this way...you have arguably the league's greatest shooter going 0-10 and going through an incredible cold streak behind the arc. It happens.

Unfortunately for WB, he doesn't have the same surrounding cast as the other mentioned player to be able to cherry pick his shot selections. He does have some really bad bricks, but considering the circumstances, beggars can't be choosers. And I'd much rather have WB taking the game winning 3 than anyone else on that roster outside of maybe McBuckets. Live and die by your superstar.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Shooting 34% from 3 and 45% inside the arc is hardly a "major offensive weakness" Please don't exaggerate.

45% from inside the arc is mediocre, especially given that he takes very few 2-point shots from outside 10 feet.

Just for comparison, Lebron is at 60% on 2-point shots, Curry at 54%, and Harden at 53%.

Or if you want to go by effective field goal percentage, Westbrook is at 47%, Harden at 53%, Curry at 57%, and LeBron at 59%.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by mfw13

45% from inside the arc is mediocre, especially given that he takes very few 2-point shots from outside 10 feet.

Just for comparison, Lebron is at 60% on 2-point shots, Curry at 54%, and Harden at 53%.

Or if you want to go by effective field goal percentage, Westbrook is at 47%, Harden at 53%, Curry at 57%, and LeBron at 59%.

Gotcha. So it a "major offensive weakness" because hes not as good as those three. Makes sense.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Gotcha. So it a "major offensive weakness" because hes not as good as those three. Makes sense.

Well....when people are touting him as an MVP candidate, does it not make sense to compare him to the other players in the discussion?

Heck, even Kawhi Leonard (54% eFG), who is known more for his defense, is a better shooter than Westbrook. So is Draymond Green (48% eFG).

Anyone can rack up triple doubles if they handle the ball and chase rebounds as much as Westbrook does. But that doesn't make you an MVP-quality player.

And never mind all of Westbrook's turnovers....

[k13]

When is the last time someone took this many shots and scored so little...

Probably have to go back to Iverson/Mcgrady chucker days...

Basketball Cancers..

All losers...all the time...

[realreodeal]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Well....when people are touting him as an MVP candidate, does it not make sense to compare him to the other players in the discussion?

Heck, even Kawhi Leonard (54% eFG), who is known more for his defense, is a better shooter than Westbrook. So is Draymond Green (48% eFG).

Anyone can rack up triple doubles if they handle the ball and chase rebounds as much as Westbrook does. But that doesn't make you an MVP-quality player.

And never mind all of Westbrook's turnovers....

If anyone can rack up triple doubles then why has only 1 player averaged that for a season?

In a few weeks we will have a second player to join that club. I am pretty sure many people thought that breaking the 100 pints in a game would be easier than averaging a triple double for the season due to the fact that you could go off in a game but it would be so much more difficult to sustain a Triple Double throughout an entire season. But low and behold, it's about to be done while leading the league in scoring. With a hugely flawed roster and fighting for home advantage in the first round.

[ninjacookies]

Triple doubles are too easy mane.

Just grab 10 boards, dish out 10 dimes, and score like 30 points a night. Anybody can do it, srs.

Anyone who disagrees obviously doesn't play 2k on easy settings.

Basically an overglorified version of baseball's triple crown. Speaking of...just lol@anybody who thinks that stat stuffing accomplishment means anything.

Cash me ousside.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by k13

When is the last time someone took this many shots and scored so little...

Probably have to go back to Iverson/Mcgrady chucker days...

Basketball Cancers..

All losers...all the time...

Lmao..yeah..whatever you say champ

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Triple doubles are too easy mane.

Just grab 10 boards, dish out 10 dimes, and score like 30 points a night. Anybody can do it, srs.

Anyone who disagrees obviously doesn't play 2k on easy settings.

Basically an overglorified version of baseball's triple crown. Speaking of...just lol@anybody who thinks that stat stuffing accomplishment means anything.

Cash me ousside.

Don't forget having a winning record is meaningless unless it's first place

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by realreodeal

If anyone can rack up triple doubles then why has only 1 player averaged that for a season?

Because nobody has really tried to. Magic, Bird, and Jordan all could have had they cared to do so. So could LeBron.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by Chris P

Don't forget having a winning record is meaningless unless it's first place

When was the last time they gave out a championship for 5th place? What next? Wanna give Westbrook a free one? I means he's averaging a TD right? That should get him something right?

[realreodeal]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Because nobody has really tried to. Magic, Bird, and Jordan all could have had they cared to do so. So could LeBron.

Those guys haven't tried? What a crock. Westbrook isn't trying to get it. He just does. Period.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by realreodeal

Those guys haven't tried? What a crock. Westbrook isn't trying to get it. He just does. Period.

They really didn't, and they could have.

Bird nearly averaged a triple double in a finals series, sure a whole season is tougher, but if that was his focus I'm sure he could do it, so could Magic and so could Jordan. MJ did get 10 in a row at one stage just to prove a point.

But their teams would have suffered, just like Westbrook's does at times. Plus I'm sure we could all agree they had better teams than Westbrook, so the assists would not have been the issue.

The key here is usage. Westbrook is setting records in that department.

Westbrook is saying he doesn't care about the triple double average, but I disagree. If he didn't care, he wouldn't help off his guy so much, giving up a bunch of points. Which costs his team.

[drobfan8]

Hoopshype have been running some nice stuff on the pros and cons of the MVP candidates.

Westbrooks cons
If he got the MVP he'd have the worst FG% for a winner since 56/57
Worst FG% amongst the top 30 guys with the highest usage
Allowed a 4.1 percent improvement on guys he's guarding as the primary defender
He's probably gonna set the turnover record for a season, he's 11 off being 2nd
He's averaging 19 possessions per game with a missed shot or turnover, only Iverson had a worse mark

I mentioned earlier about how you explain that Harden, Kawhi or LeBron don't get the award. they're all deserved.

I obviously get most impressed when Westbrook puts up some crazy line, he's ridiculous. He still needs to gain some control in his game, people can say that he needs to throw up shots, and he does, but he can be far more disciplined.

Here's to a great finish.

[bdoody42]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Hoopshype have been running some nice stuff on the pros and cons of the MVP candidates.

Westbrooks cons
If he got the MVP he'd have the worst FG% for a winner since 56/57
Worst FG% amongst the top 30 guys with the highest usage
Allowed a 4.1 percent improvement on guys he's guarding as the primary defender
He's probably gonna set the turnover record for a season, he's 11 off being 2nd
He's averaging 19 possessions per game with a missed shot or turnover, only Iverson had a worse mark

I mentioned earlier about how you explain that Harden, Kawhi or LeBron don't get the award. they're all deserved.

I obviously get most impressed when Westbrook puts up some crazy line, he's ridiculous. He still needs to gain some control in his game, people can say that he needs to throw up shots, and he does, but he can be far more disciplined.

Here's to a great finish.

I love it when people actually do some research and put some effort into their posts.

Westbrook winning it would be unprecedented based on his teams record and his inefficiently.

To me its in the following order.
1. Harden
2. Westbrook
3. Kawhi

People really fall in love with a 31,10.5,10 stat line which isn't very different to a 28,11.5, 8 stat line.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by bdoody42

People really fall in love with a 31,10.5,10 stat line which isn't very different to a 28,11.5, 8 stat line.

This just doesn't make any sense to me. Theres a reason only one person has ever avgd a 3d. The difference is one guy here is doing it and the other isnt.

[bdoody42]

Originally Posted by cnewby

This just doesn't make any sense to me. Theres a reason only one person has ever avgd a 3d. The difference is one guy here is doing it and the other isnt.

Lets break down the stats...

Westbrook- 31.4 PPG on 41.8 FG% , 10.3 APG, and 10.5 RPG . Team is 6th in the west.

Harden- 29.4 PPG on 44.6%, 11.2 APG, and 8.1 RPG. team is 3rd in West.

Westbrook just shoots more and not as well. That's why he scores more.

The last guy who averaged a triple double finished 3rd in the MVP voting... MVP is a mixture of individual success and team success. Westbrook will need his team to finish 5th to have any chance at winning.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by cnewby

This just doesn't make any sense to me. Theres a reason only one person has ever avgd a 3d. The difference is one guy here is doing it and the other isnt.

I disagree. I'm of the belief that averaging 10/10 is no different than averaging 11/9, or 12/8, or 9/11 etc. etc. I think the idea of a triple double is sensationalized simply because it has a catchy name and looks good in a box score, but in terms of actual basketball, wouldn't it be better for a guard to actually have more assists than rebounds? Wouldn't you actually want the guard that averages 15 assist and 5 boards vs 10 and 10?

Outside of it being neat, I think it's just a hype driven idea that doesn't always translate in success.

To me, Harden is the clear MVP this season. Houston has outperformed what anyone could have expected from them this season, and he's playing out of this world. Westbrook's #'s sure look good, so long as you don't focus on putting the ball in the basket.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I disagree. I'm of the belief that averaging 10/10 is no different than averaging 11/9, or 12/8, or 9/11 etc. etc. I think the idea of a triple double is sensationalized simply because it has a catchy name and looks good in a box score, but in terms of actual basketball, wouldn't it be better for a guard to actually have more assists than rebounds? Wouldn't you actually want the guard that averages 15 assist and 5 boards vs 10 and 10?

Outside of it being neat, I think it's just a hype driven idea that doesn't always translate in success.

To me, Harden is the clear MVP this season. Houston has outperformed what anyone could have expected from them this season, and he's playing out of this world. Westbrook's #'s sure look good, so long as you don't focus on putting the ball in the basket.

I see what you're saying, but theres still a disparity on their stats.

31.4, 10.5, 10.3 vs 29.4, 11.2, 8.1 is not the same "total stats". +2 in pts, +2.4 in reb and -0.9 in ast still gives the adv to WB. You cannot look at these stats and say they are the same thing.

[Rareairx23]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

When was the last time they gave out a championship for 5th place? What next? Wanna give Westbrook a free one? I means he's averaging a TD right? That should get him something right?

Absolutely, an mvp trophy!!!

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by cnewby

I see what you're saying, but theres still a disparity on their stats.

31.4, 10.5, 10.3 vs 29.4, 11.2, 8.1 is not the same "total stats". +2 in pts, +2.4 in reb and -0.9 in ast still gives the adv to WB. You cannot look at these stats and say they are the same thing.

I certainly agree with you; they're not equal, Westbrook is leading if you take them in accumulation. And while Westbrook has that advantage, he's at a disadvantage in the team competition as well as the a severe disadvantage w/ shooting.

Westbrook 103/117 in shooting percentage of qualified players. Adjusted, he's 116/117 ... how can an MVP be the second worst shooter in all the NBA?

[Chris P]

Here's the thing...my point has never been "is he going to win the MVP"...I honestly believe he won't..but it seems like some people get offended that he's even a candidate. Even with the triple double average if he keeps it up, his team record will have a huge determination on the award. If they stay in the 5-7 range (looking more like 6 or 7) there's no way he wins...but man...doesn't mean he doesn't DESERVE to be considered. Diminish it all you want...a triple double average is a triple double average..and he's still doing it on a team currently 10 games over .500 in the tougher conference. To one particular person, that doesn't mean anything at all...but it does carry weight but at the end of the day with Harden putting up great numbers himself and on a better team...Harden will win it.