Paul Skenes’ Debut Patch Auto has been pulled

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by NYRE2PECT

Have we hit bottom yet?

9 Days and 14 Hours until Pitchers and Catchers report.

Is this is anything like the 2021 Bowman's Best thread, somebody will stumble into the thread in a few weeks, raise concerns, and start the whole cycle again.

[PoPCulture]

This card has torn the Nation apart. We need Series 1 to produce a card that offers healing.

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

The thing to remember is that for a lot of people here, the main goal is just to give Fanatics another black eye. Whether deserved or not (and they’ve definitely earned their share of black eyes in the past). If the Ohtani card was more high profile, people would be piling on that too, but for now, this is where the attention is.

Hah yeah it feels that way. I just want to understand if we're heading toward a world were, anyone who rips a box of ultra modern is under an implied obligation fueled by public pressure to let Topps use their name/pics/story/location in marketing materials if they hit the product chase card.

If so, I hate that.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by here2havefun

Q for the skeptics. That Dynasty Black Ohtani 1/1 was recently redeemed in-person by Heritage. Whoever pulled the card sent the redemption card to Heritage for them to redeem and then auction. So at this point, Fanatics/Topps doesn't even know who pulled it, and thus the public could never know either (Heritage will never reveal that info).

Does this make you all uncomfortable? Is it bad? Is it better or worse than the Skenes situation?

No, all sorts of valuable cards are pulled all the time, legitimately. The Ohtani card is not nearly as high profile as the Skenes, but that doesn’t even matter.

Fanatics didn’t exploit the story of the person who pulled the Ohtani.

The Ohtani is a non-story, just as the Skenes pull should have been.

The big difference is that the family and fanatics spun the Skenes pull into a wannabe fairy tale that fell flat on it’s face, the execution was horrendous.

The family never should have even mentioned the child in the first place. Fanatics should have been more transparent if they were going to pump.

The saddest part, in both situations, and what is becoming a more common phenomenon, is that neither person who pulled the redemptions cared to even touch or feel the card prior to putting it to market. The degenerate gamblers that fanatics has sought to create have come to the pinnacle.

Most of these people who share our hobby don’t care about cards. They are in it for the money and the dopamine addiction.

It’s a tragic state that our hobby is in, in my opinion.

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

No, all sorts of valuable cards are pulled all the time, legitimately. The Ohtani card is not nearly as high profile as the Skenes, but that doesn’t even matter.

Fanatics didn’t exploit the story of the person who pulled the Ohtani.

The Ohtani is a non-story, just as the Skenes pull should have been.

The big difference is that the family and fanatics spun the Skenes pull into a wannabe fairy tale that fell flat on it’s face, the execution was horrendous.

The family never should have even mentioned the child in the first place. Fanatics should have been more transparent if they were going to pump.

The saddest part, in both situations, and what is becoming a more common phenomenon, is that neither person who pulled the redemptions cared to even touch or feel the card prior to putting it to market. The degenerate gamblers that fanatics has sought to create have come to the pinnacle.

Most of these people who share our hobby don’t care about cards. They are in it for the money and the dopamine addiction.

It’s a tragic state that our hobby is in, in my opinion.

I feel like the demand to know more info about the person who pulled it, and the hobby shop that sold it, was swift. People were crying fowl because it wasn't caught on camera. Didn't the angry mob start up before the stupid journal thing was released?

Also, I love baseball cards, but if I hit a multi-six figure card in the box, I'm selling. Think of all the PC cards I could buy with the money!

[seanbros55]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

No, all sorts of valuable cards are pulled all the time, legitimately. The Ohtani card is not nearly as high profile as the Skenes, but that doesn’t even matter.

Fanatics didn’t exploit the story of the person who pulled the Ohtani.

The Ohtani is a non-story, just as the Skenes pull should have been.

The big difference is that the family and fanatics spun the Skenes pull into a wannabe fairy tale that fell flat on it’s face, the execution was horrendous.

The family never should have even mentioned the child in the first place. Fanatics should have been more transparent if they were going to pump.

The saddest part, in both situations, and what is becoming a more common phenomenon, is that neither person who pulled the redemptions cared to even touch or feel the card prior to putting it to market. The degenerate gamblers that fanatics has sought to create have come to the pinnacle.

Most of these people who share our hobby don’t care about cards. They are in it for the money and the dopamine addiction.

It’s a tragic state that our hobby is in, in my opinion.

I completely agree. If they never wrote/dictated/posted/pumped the journal entry and narrative, this thread would be maybe 4 pages instead of 60+.

They just couldn’t help themselves…

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

We will never know everything about everything. And guess what? Even if Topps did release the entire story and the family went on ESPN and told their story, and the shop owner joined them and promoted his shop...there would STILL be people who wondered if it was all a ruse to sell boxes while the owner knew all along which box it was in and saved it for a kid to make the story feel good.

That's the thing with conspiracy theorists. You shoot holes in one of their core arguments, instead of admitting defeat, they double down and find something else to keep the conspiracy talk going. Like what you said above, if the family did all that, the conspiracy bois would be like "WELL, that's TOO good of a story, isn't it! Obviously Fanatics had a heavy hand in arranging everything to make it sound believable, but I know it's a ruse. PROVE ME WRONG". Like endless whack a mole.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

The thing to remember is that for a lot of people here, the main goal is just to give Fanatics another black eye. Whether deserved or not (and they’ve definitely earned their share of black eyes in the past). If the Ohtani card was more high profile, people would be piling on that too, but for now, this is where the attention is.

Seems like quite a few Luigi Macaronis in here....want to "take it" to the corporate big wigs and The Man.

[Bcr]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

No, all sorts of valuable cards are pulled all the time, legitimately. The Ohtani card is not nearly as high profile as the Skenes, but that doesn’t even matter.

Fanatics didn’t exploit the story of the person who pulled the Ohtani.

The Ohtani is a non-story, just as the Skenes pull should have been.

The big difference is that the family and fanatics spun the Skenes pull into a wannabe fairy tale that fell flat on it’s face, the execution was horrendous.

The family never should have even mentioned the child in the first place. Fanatics should have been more transparent if they were going to pump.

The saddest part, in both situations, and what is becoming a more common phenomenon, is that neither person who pulled the redemptions cared to even touch or feel the card prior to putting it to market. The degenerate gamblers that fanatics has sought to create have come to the pinnacle.

Most of these people who share our hobby don’t care about cards. They are in it for the money and the dopamine addiction.

It’s a tragic state that our hobby is in, in my opinion.

Indeed it is.

[MSU Bulldogs]

And just like the Project 2020 and Wander rookie card debate threads, I shall never open this one again.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by here2havefun

I feel like the demand to know more info about the person who pulled it, and the hobby shop that sold it, was swift. People were crying fowl because it wasn't caught on camera. Didn't the angry mob start up before the stupid journal thing was released?

Also, I love baseball cards, but if I hit a multi-six figure card in the box, I'm selling. Think of all the PC cards I could buy with the money!

Those comments prior to the journal release were some of the most entertaining posts to read on this thread. I personally enjoy the tongue in cheek style. Certainly more insightful than posts by pathetic cowards who not only choose to block comments of others from their own view, but, even worse, brag about it to others in a thread that has nothing to do with their decision to censure. It is disheartening to see folks live their entire lives with tunnel vision.

I wouldn’t blame you for selling like most everyone else would, but I would at least like to physically pull the actual card first or at least hold the card before letting it go to the next owner. It’s what makes us collectors, not degenerate gamblers.

[Bob Ross]

What've I missed? Just checking back in after a few days.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

What've I missed? Just checking back in after a few days.

Nothing. I think we’re all just really missing Bobby Witt Jr right now. I think that’s the main issue here.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

If I was an 11 year old kid that collected baseball cards, and I pulled this and had a chance to meet a superstar professional ballplayer, you would see me on every news outlet. I would be a celebrity at school. So assuming that all of this is true, the family is really weird for wanting to remain anonymous. I can understand why in a sense, but it's still weird. The kid is probably pissed.....

[mikejones]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

If I was an 11 year old kid that collected baseball cards, and I pulled this and had a chance to meet a superstar professional ballplayer, you would see me on every news outlet. I would be a celebrity at school. So assuming that all of this is true, the family is really weird for wanting to remain anonymous. I can understand why in a sense, but it's still weird. The kid is probably pissed.....

I totally understand why the family wants to be anonymous. I pulled a big card last year and got messages from people I've never heard of asking if they can pay me $500 bucks to say they pulled it for me. These were probably breakers. I was like nah, I pulled it at my LCS.

Edit: Here's my take on it. The son and dad pulled it from a box they bought. Only they know where the box came from. Some breaker offered them money to say they pulled it for them. The dad and son took the deal. Now there's this big mess.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by mikejones

I totally understand why the family wants to be anonymous. I pulled a big card last year and got messages from people I've never heard of asking if they can pay me $500 bucks to say they pulled it for me. These were probably breakers. I was like nah, I pulled it at my LCS.

Edit: Here's my take on it. The son and dad pulled it from a box they bought. Only they know where the box came from. Some breaker offered them money to say they pulled it for them. The dad and son took the deal. Now there's this big mess.

True, but after you put this into the hands of the auction house, you aren’t getting people to ask to buy it. That’s why you wait until then to reveal yourselves in all of the glory. The kid is gonna grow up with trust issues…..

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by mikejones

I totally understand why the family wants to be anonymous. I pulled a big card last year and got messages from people I've never heard of asking if they can pay me $500 bucks to say they pulled it for me. These were probably breakers. I was like nah, I pulled it at my LCS.

Edit: Here's my take on it. The son and dad pulled it from a box they bought. Only they know where the box came from. Some breaker offered them money to say they pulled it for them. The dad and son took the deal. Now there's this big mess.

There are sharks everywhere in this hobby.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

It is a fool's errand to use generalities about people to explain why one specific family made a decision. As far as the car, even I've done both. I've owned 2 cars over the last decade. The first one I bought off the lot in under 2 hours with zero research done. The second I spent weeks looking at options and prices. If my own behavior can vary this much in the same scenario repeated twice, I couldn't begin to predict the decision-making mindset of a random family across the country.

Right, and we're not actually talking about a family purchasing a vehicle, either -- they are selling a highly-valuable trading card. They had plenty of time to think about how they were going to sell it. Not contacting Goldin, who is the leader in the industry in selling this category of card, seems odd. Doing a basic search on the internet would have led the family to the company's website.

While speaking in generalities is a foolish way to inform or explain one family's actions, it helps to understand typical human behavior. This is unusual behavior, and it requires unusual modes of thinking to explain it.

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Yes, if they were suspected of murder there is no doubt that an agency would spend months compiling a list of 200,000 addresses, looking at birth data, tax records, employment records, and whittling down the list enough to hopefully deploy surveillance and eventually find a legitimate suspect. This, however, is a baseball card and nobody is interested enough to spend the time and resources to cross reference this.

Plenty of people have gotten doxxed on the internet with the use of certain divulged personal details. I'm not sure why it would take a large amount of resources to do it. We live in a digital age where people's personal information is potentially one click away.

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

We know the city they are from and that is enough for most people. I think you overestimating the percentage of people who need to know the specific shop or dealer. I hadn't even considered this. Before this thread took off, I read the story and my only thoughts were A.) Glad it was hit and this won't turn into an Evan Longoria situation, and B.) Happy it was a kid. If it weren't for this thread, I would have never thought about it again.

Well, you seem to lack an inquisitive mind. Plenty of other people would like to know key details about a high-profile story such as this. A story isn't fully fleshed out without the where, when, why, and how being answered. But ignorance is bliss to some people, and they are fine with not knowing all those details.

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Transparency, to me, is a checklist, odds sheet, mock-ups of the product design, a specific release date, advertisement of the sale date and time, and which SKUs will be available. If there is a pack-out error, transparency is informing the public that you are aware and providing an explanation once you've found one. If an employee is caught stealing like the USPS story that just came out, transparency would be an acknowledgement that this happened and that you've terminated the employee and are increasing surveillance/security at your facilities. That is what I expect from Topps when it comes to transparency. I don't want or need to track where cases are going and who is pulling big hits or where those hits are being pulled.

It's concerning to me that you aren't the least bit interested in knowing if the Skenes Debut Patch card was indeed fairly and honestly distributed. Details like checklists and odds are great. But what really should matter is the verification of those details.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

It's concerning to me that you aren't the least bit interested in knowing if the Skenes Debut Patch card was indeed fairly and honestly distributed. Details like checklists and odds are great. But what really should matter is the verification of those details.

Knowing where the box was purchased doesn't satisfy this in any way.

You could have a full story. Where it was purchased, receipts of the transaction, pictures of the person who hit the card. None of that would prove that Fanatics didn't backdoor the box to that location with an agreement that it got to that specific person.

It has nothing to do with one side being ignorant or the other side just being inquisitive.

Why haven't you said a word about the Ohtani 1/1 that was just hit that way less information has been released on?

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by here2havefun

Q for the skeptics. That Dynasty Black Ohtani 1/1 was recently redeemed in-person by Heritage. Whoever pulled the card sent the redemption card to Heritage for them to redeem and then auction. So at this point, Fanatics/Topps doesn't even know who pulled it, and thus the public could never know either (Heritage will never reveal that info).

Does this make you all uncomfortable? Is it bad? Is it better or worse than the Skenes situation?

Yeah, it is a bit suspicious that someone would choose to redeem a card via a third party. But maybe Heritage told them they would handle the entire process of redeeming and selling the card.

The difference between a third-party handling the sale and Fanatics doing it, is Fanatics also handles the manufacturing and distribution of the card. Fanatics is able to control the entire process in the latter scenario, while a third party handling the auction would at least require the seller to identify themselves to someone other than Fanatics.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by mikejones

I totally understand why the family wants to be anonymous. I pulled a big card last year and got messages from people I've never heard of asking if they can pay me $500 bucks to say they pulled it for me. These were probably breakers. I was like nah, I pulled it at my LCS.

Edit: Here's my take on it. The son and dad pulled it from a box they bought. Only they know where the box came from. Some breaker offered them money to say they pulled it for them. The dad and son took the deal. Now there's this big mess.

This I think is the key statement. So many people here are accusing Fanatics of withholding that information to protect some shady doings. I, personally, don't think that Fanatics was told. And it's not something they've ever required as part of a redemption process.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by here2havefun

Hah yeah it feels that way. I just want to understand if we're heading toward a world were, anyone who rips a box of ultra modern is under an implied obligation fueled by public pressure to let Topps use their name/pics/story/location in marketing materials if they hit the product chase card.

If so, I hate that.

Or, you know, forced to show they obtained a very high-value card in an honest and transparent way. How about a receipt? Or at least the original box or pack the card came in? Divulging the type of outlet, whether a hobby shop or online dealer, would be great.

You know the type of people who don't want those kinds of basic details divulged? People who have something incriminating or scandalous to hide.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by whitmm

This I think is the key statement. So many people here are accusing Fanatics of withholding that information to protect some shady doings. I, personally, don't think that Fanatics was told. And it's not something they've ever required as part of a redemption process.

It doesn’t matter if fanatics was told by the family or not.

What bothers the public the most is the possibility that they already knew.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Knowing where the box was purchased doesn't satisfy this in any way.

You could have a full story. Where it was purchased, receipts of the transaction, pictures of the person who hit the card. None of that would prove that Fanatics didn't backdoor the box to that location with an agreement that it got to that specific person.

It has nothing to do with one side being ignorant or the other side just being inquisitive.

Why haven't you said a word about the Ohtani 1/1 that was just hit that way less information has been released on?

I don't need incontrovertible proof of how the Skenes card was obtained. I just want some basic details that have been conspicuously omitted from the story. A story that already includes plenty of personal details about the person who owns the card.

The transparency I'm looking for is reasonable. It doesn't require much effort or disclosure of any personal details. Just tell us where the box came from -- what outlet. At least tell us what type of outlet.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I don't need incontrovertible proof of how the Skenes card was obtained. I just want some basic details that have been conspicuously omitted from the story. A story that already includes plenty of personal details about the person who owns the card.

The transparency I'm looking for is reasonable. It doesn't require much effort or disclosure of any personal details. Just tell us where the box came from -- what outlet. At least tell us what type of outlet.

You said you want to make sure that the box was obtained in an honest and transparent way. Knowing where the box was purchased doesn't prove that. A receipt doesn't prove that. Literally nothing you are demanding proves that.

And the fact that you continue to ignore this proves that you aren't being inquisitive. It proves that you are looking for any possible angle to bitch about Fanatics.