Right now, where do you rank Lebron all time? - Page 51

GeechQuest · 06-01-2018, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip33tomj23

This is no point in arguing...

Obviously a layup yields a higher percentage than any other shot. Statistically speaking, you are right. But statistics don't win games, they don't win championships. Players do. Players in tough situations either come through or they don't.

The decision LeBron made to give Hill a chance yielded a tie game and eventual OT. At that point, LeBron went back to hibernate and didn't show up. His best shot was him, it's always him.

For what it's worth, LeBron shot nearly 60% from the field last night. I'd rather a 60% shot with LeBron over Curry than a 80% shot with George Hill in that scenario.

Then, statistically speaking, you'd lose the game 20 more times than you had to. And since the statistics are derived from the actual game, the statistics DO win and lose games.

Again, I personally WANT to see Lebron shoot it and make or miss it. That's what I WANT. But what I want doesn't make it the smarter play.

I don't think you're wrong in your assessment and I'm in no means trying to argue (well, kind of). I just think to harp on Lebron for THAT play last night is grasping at straws, especially after the performance he put on last night and especially since, statistically speaking, it was the better play.

Round Mound · 06-01-2018, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip33tomj23

The best chance to win, in my opinion, was LeBron rolling last night. We can agree to disagree. Stats don't always get the job done... the right basketball play doesn't always get the job done as we've seen in LeBron's career over and over again.

I'd rather have LeBron with that opportunity than George Hill, regardless of where Hill is on the floor.

Layup versus 3-pointer, there is no need to go into statistics.

jr24ai3 · 06-01-2018, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Round Mound

LeBron could have had Doris Burke on him, his shooting percentage would still be lower than Hill FT%....

shooting 80% in the regular season doesn't mean you are 80% with the game on the line in the NBA finals.

pip33tomj23 · 06-01-2018, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Round Mound

Layup versus 3-pointer, there is no need to go into statistics.

Who is saying that LeBron was going to shoot a three? He had Curry on him up top, he could have backed him down, drove past him as he did repeatedly before, or just rose up.

All of those options are superior to Hill.

Throw statistics out the window in the last 30 seconds of the game.

Round Mound · 06-01-2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Round Mound

If players had the vision of cameras placed 20 feet above the court, with the ability to know in advance if the shot goes in or not, then.....

...........................

jr24ai3 · 06-01-2018, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip33tomj23

Who is saying that LeBron was going to shoot a three? He had Curry on him up top, he could have backed him down, drove past him as he did repeatedly before, or just rose up.

All of those options are superior to Hill.

Throw statistics out the window in the last 30 seconds of the game.

And that pass was a bullet (it was a good pass). I question if George Hill even catches it cleanly if he wasn't fouled.

rhigh2390 · 06-01-2018, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip33tomj23

Who is saying that LeBron was going to shoot a three? He had Curry on him up top, he could have backed him down, drove past him as he did repeatedly before, or just rose up.

All of those options are superior to Hill.

Throw statistics out the window in the last 30 seconds of the game.

Exactly what I'm thinking. I don't really care if it was the textbook "best basketball play." If at the beginning of the game, you asked anyone with any basketball knowledge, you are down 1, 8 seconds left, do you want lebron going 1 on 1 against Steph Curry or James pass to George Hill (no matter where he's at)? I'd hope every single person would say "I'll take lebron 1 on 1 vs Steph over any other play that can be made."

But then again, the game last night was a typical lebron apologist game. "Lebron did everything he could and made the right basketball play...."

Round Mound · 06-01-2018, 11:13 AM

Paxson and Steve Kerr say hello.

pip33tomj23 · 06-01-2018, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Round Mound

Paxson and Steve Kerr say hello.

Kyrie says hello... Ray Allen says hello.

jr24ai3 · 06-01-2018, 11:15 AM

When Curry drove to the basket with 25 seconds left, he could have dropped it off to Looney when Love came over to double. Instead, he kept the ball, drew the foul and made the shot. You could argue that the best basketball play was to give it to Looney for what looks like an easy layup to tie the game. But he kept it and took the lead.

jr24ai3 · 06-01-2018, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Round Mound

Paxson and Steve Kerr say hello.

That's fine, but Jordan proved he could make the big shot in the finals at least 4 times that I can think of off the top of my head.

Round Mound · 06-01-2018, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr24ai3

That's fine, but Jordan proved he could make the big shot in the finals at least 4 times that I can think of off the top of my head.

40 times actually. Or maybe even 400.

pgisback · 06-01-2018, 11:19 AM

90s fanboys rewriting history as usual. This was from 2015... it's gotten even crazier.

"In the playoffs LeBron has now taken 10 potential go-ahead shots in the final five seconds of the fourth quarter or overtime. He's connected on six of them, according to ESPN's Brian Windhorst. Jordan was 5-of-11 in such situations during his career."

ThoseBackPages · 06-01-2018, 11:23 AM

if Bron shaves his head this summer, i may move him up on the list

jr24ai3 · 06-01-2018, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

90s fanboys rewriting history as usual. This was from 2015... it's gotten even crazier.

"In the playoffs LeBron has now taken 10 potential go-ahead shots in the final five seconds of the fourth quarter or overtime. He's connected on six of them, according to ESPN's Brian Windhorst. Jordan was 5-of-11 in such situations during his career."

And none of those came in the Finals....on the biggest stage.

pgisback · 06-01-2018, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr24ai3

And none of those came in the Finals....on the biggest stage.

Other than the one Jordan pushed off on, how many of his came in the Finals? Probably not many chances since the Bulls were much better than their opponents. Lebron is doing this as a 12 point underdog. It's an insane level of excellence.

jr24ai3 · 06-01-2018, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

90s fanboys rewriting history as usual. This was from 2015... it's gotten even crazier.

"In the playoffs LeBron has now taken 10 potential go-ahead shots in the final five seconds of the fourth quarter or overtime. He's connected on six of them, according to ESPN's Brian Windhorst. Jordan was 5-of-11 in such situations during his career."

According to basketball reference, he was 5-14 after the 2014-15 season.

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In all years, in the playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 0:05 or less left in quarter, shot to tie or take lead, sorted by descending Field Goals
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Rk Player Season Tm G FG FGA FG% FGX 3P 3PA 3P% 3PX eFG% Ast'd %Ast'd
1 LeBron James 2017-18 CLE 3 2 3 .667 1 1 1 1.000 0 .833 1 .500
2 LeBron James 2005-06 CLE 1 1 2 .500 1 0 0 0 .500 0 .000
3 LeBron James 2014-15 CLE 3 1 4 .250 3 0 0 0 .250 1 1.000
4 LeBron James 2012-13 MIA 1 1 1 1.000 0 0 0 0 1.000 0 .000
5 LeBron James 2008-09 CLE 2 1 2 .500 1 1 2 .500 1 .750 1 1.000
6 LeBron James 2006-07 CLE 2 1 2 .500 1 0 1 .000 1 .500 0 .000
7 LeBron James 2011-12 MIA 1 0 1 .000 1 0 0 0 .000 0
8 LeBron James 2010-11 MIA 1 0 1 .000 1 0 0 0 .000 0
9 LeBron James 2007-08 CLE 1 0 1 .000 1 0 0 0 .000 0

ThoseBackPages · 06-01-2018, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

Other than the one Jordan pushed off on, how many of his came in the Finals? Probably not many chances since the Bulls were much better than their opponents. Lebron is doing this as a 12 point underdog. It's an insane level of excellence.

as excellent as it may be (and it is), losing is losing

jr24ai3 · 06-01-2018, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

Other than the one Jordan pushed off on, how many of his came in the Finals? Probably not many chances since the Bulls were much better than their opponents. Lebron is doing this as a 12 point underdog. It's an insane level of excellence.

Bulls vs lakers, hit a shot to tie the game and send it to overtime w/ 3 seconds left.

Bulls Jazz 97 finals - hit a buzzer beater to win game 1

Bulls Jazz Flu Game - hit a 3 with 25 seconds left to take the lead

Bulls Jazz Game 6, 1998 - game winner with around 5 seconds left.

pgisback · 06-01-2018, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr24ai3

Bulls vs lakers, hit a shot to tie the game and send it to overtime w/ 3 seconds left.

Bulls Jazz 97 finals - hit a buzzer beater to win game 1

Bulls Jazz Flu Game - hit a 3 with 25 seconds left to take the lead

Bulls Jazz Game 6, 1998 - game winner with around 5 seconds left.

So 3 total shots (not including the 25 second one)? That's what you're basing who is the best basketball player on? Lmao. I'll take the dude who can take a team like this Cavs team to the Finals over someone who makes 3 shots with a hall of fame coach and one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

jr24ai3 · 06-01-2018, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

So 3 total shots (not including the 25 second one)? That's what you're basing who is the best basketball player on? Lmao. I'll take the dude who can take a team like this Cavs team to the Finals over someone who makes 3 shots with a hall of fame coach and one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

3 is more than 0

jr24ai3 · 06-01-2018, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

So 3 total shots (not including the 25 second one)? That's what you're basing who is the best basketball player on? Lmao. I'll take the dude who can take a team like this Cavs team to the Finals over someone who makes 3 shots with a hall of fame coach and one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

Lebron's teams could be considered great if he didn't lose all the time.

jr24ai3 · 06-01-2018, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

So 3 total shots (not including the 25 second one)? That's what you're basing who is the best basketball player on? Lmao. I'll take the dude who can take a team like this Cavs team to the Finals over someone who makes 3 shots with a hall of fame coach and one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

If he doesn't hit those 2 shots in 1997 against the Jazz, they could have lost the series. 2 of the 4 games were won because Jordan hit big shots in the final seconds. Series could have easily gone 4-2 or 4-1 Jazz if not for those shots or the Kerr game winner.

DajuanWagner · 06-01-2018, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr24ai3

Lebron's teams could be considered great if he didn't lose all the time.

I agree. That J.R. Smith is amazing...….

GC1980 · 06-01-2018, 11:48 AM

Why are we debating the final shot? It was a good basketball play and tied the game. Could you argue you wanted him to shoot or maybe the result would have been better? Sure. Doesn't change the fact that it was a good play and got the game tied. Whether or not Jordan would have taken and hit a game winner is about as relevant as saying he wouldn't have been able to keep the game within 20 points. Neither happened or is happening. What DID happen was LBJ made a smart play and the game went to overtime.

The bigger issue was the overtime performance. It was a 0-0, 5 min game and LBJ didn't muster a single field goal. Stops attacking. 0-4 with nothing inside 17 feet. It is the only critique I would have because his performance in regulation was damn near flawless. It was something you expect from a top 5 all time player.

View Poll Results: Right now, where do you rank Lebron all time?
GOAT	150	25.91%
#2	213	36.79%
#3	70	12.09%
#4	37	6.39%
#5	30	5.18%
Oustide Top 5	79	13.64%
Voters: 579. You may not vote on this poll

06-01-2018, 11:13 AM	#1258
Round Mound Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Thonon-les-Bains, France Posts: 2,165	Paxson and Steve Kerr say hello. __________________ Ultimate Charles Barkley fan, also searching for all Gadzuric cards.

06-01-2018, 11:23 AM	#1264
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 90,223 ThoseBackPages	if Bron shaves his head this summer, i may move him up on the list __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

06-01-2018, 11:15 AM	#1260
jr24ai3 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,740	When Curry drove to the basket with 25 seconds left, he could have dropped it off to Looney when Love came over to double. Instead, he kept the ball, drew the foul and made the shot. You could argue that the best basketball play was to give it to Looney for what looks like an easy layup to tie the game. But he kept it and took the lead.

06-01-2018, 11:19 AM	#1263
pgisback Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Seattle Posts: 21,023	90s fanboys rewriting history as usual. This was from 2015... it's gotten even crazier. "In the playoffs LeBron has now taken 10 potential go-ahead shots in the final five seconds of the fourth quarter or overtime. He's connected on six of them, according to ESPN's Brian Windhorst. Jordan was 5-of-11 in such situations during his career."

06-01-2018, 11:48 AM	#1275
GC1980 Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: NYC Posts: 3,918	Why are we debating the final shot? It was a good basketball play and tied the game. Could you argue you wanted him to shoot or maybe the result would have been better? Sure. Doesn't change the fact that it was a good play and got the game tied. Whether or not Jordan would have taken and hit a game winner is about as relevant as saying he wouldn't have been able to keep the game within 20 points. Neither happened or is happening. What DID happen was LBJ made a smart play and the game went to overtime. The bigger issue was the overtime performance. It was a 0-0, 5 min game and LBJ didn't muster a single field goal. Stops attacking. 0-4 with nothing inside 17 feet. It is the only critique I would have because his performance in regulation was damn near flawless. It was something you expect from a top 5 all time player.